<p>^Then how do you suppose people without cars buy their groceries? I suppose they just do without…</p>
<p>Found the solutions, vyse!
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and
[Flop</a> Mop](<a href=“http://flopmop.com/]Flop”>http://flopmop.com/)</p>
<p>“Have you forgotten that we’re talking about a grocery store and cleaning supplies? Where would a mop fit on a bicycle? If you’ll YouTube yourself walking back from a grocery store with 6 bags of groceries, I promise I’ll retract everything I said.”</p>
<p>Most UMD-CP students are instate. I am sure that one of them went home or had parents visit during this period of time and could have brought back Lysol. UMD-CP is close to stores. All you really need is a bottle of bleach or some Lysol to clean. many bookstores at colleges carry supplies for cleaning and other necessities. UMS-CP is also walking distance to stores.</p>
<p>You don’t need a mop to clean a floor. You can get down on your hands and knees with paper towels and bleach solution and scrub!</p>
<p>It is unforgiveable that these men are such slobs. The cleaning staff at universities is there for basic cleaning, not fumigation of unsafe living conditions. The university needs to tell them to shape up or live off-campus. I hope their parents know and care.</p>
<p>UMD-CP doesn’t need this kind of publicity. They are constantly trying to make their reputation better. Slobs like this aren’t going to help them.</p>
<p>Vyse, when my H and I just got married, our only means of transportation was his bike. Since he rode it to work every day, I walked to and back from the nearest grocery store (about 1/2 miles) to stock up the fridge in our apartment. And this 120-lb woman (at that time :)) had no problem carrying 5-6 grocery bags!</p>
<p>I don’t have to suppose HGFM, I live in a cow town w/o a car. I either have to carefully make time to shop when my friends are headed to the store, or else I have to pay the insanely marked up prices that our on campus “convenience” store charges. Or in some cases, I have to go without from time to time.</p>
<p>I would never bend over backward on this to satisfy the university as part of a collective punishment plan though. If your neighbor committed a violation, would you expect to have to clean up after them?</p>
<p>Vyse…I feel like you are pulling at straws to suggest that they cannot clean up their own mess or excrement because they can’t obtain cleaning supplies if they don’t have a car. I am sure there are places in walking distance or by shuttle or a friend may have a car. They are not in the boonies there. </p>
<p>I didn’t read anyone suggesting that all those who lived there clean up what perpetrators do. Those who are violating certain housing conditions (and I bet amongst who lives on the floor, the kids can figure out who is doing some of this), need to have consequences. Standards for living exist in housing agreements and those who violate it, should have consequences or lose housing privileges. It is not about collective punishment. It is about making young adults responsible to upholding a certain standard in a community. The maids should not have to go beyond what is reasonably expected in cleaning such spaces.</p>
<p>Maryland weather isn’t exactly tenable for long distance walks in the evenings this time of year, guys.</p>
<p>Vyse, I don’t feel that is a reasonable argument here. So, these kids can do whatever they want? And they can’t be expected to find what to clean up with as college kids in a college town? My kid goes to college in Manhattan (colder than MD) and nobody drives. She must pick up all supplies needed and walk many many blocks at all hours of the day and night in snow, sleet or freezing rain. I am pretty surprised that you think it is a sound argument that they cannot clean up their messes because they do not have cars or that it is cold to walk. On top of that, they likely have a friend with a car. They likely have a friend with an off campus apartment who has some supplies. Just like they pick up food for a party or beer for a party, they can pick up rags and cleaning solutions! Do they never buy beer because it is cold to walk or they don’t have cars??</p>
<p>I agree that if the perpetrators can be identified, they should be punished. But if nobody finds out who did it, I’m not for making everyone “pitch in”. If your next door neighbor’s dog bites a jogger, would you volunteer to split the bill with them?</p>
<p>I think they can clean up their OWN messes. I dont think its reasonable to ask them to drop what they’re doing and possibly face untenable circumstances to go clean up a mess that someone else made.</p>
<p>I think Vyse is obviously grasping at straws a little bit with the whole “can’t get to the store” line of argumentation, but his other point is the main one and has real merit - I’d be p*ssed if my trash stopped getting picked up (a service I pay for through my room contract) because some other idiots on my floor were messy. Whoever approved the maids doing that would be getting a major piece of my mind, and so, for that matter, would my hall mates.</p>
<p>My offer stands. If any of you will YouTube yourself walking back from the store with a week’s worth of groceries in hand, I’ll retract.</p>
<p>The"advantage", as it were, of group punishments, is that it usually facilitates, or at least encourages cooperative activities amongst the group in the future, in a preventative fashion. They know that if they dont work together to get the particularly disgusting perpetrators to clean up their messes, that all will ultimately be once again cleaning up the messes. Facilitates a social cohesiveness, with a little bit of peer pressure thrown in, so they don’t all suffer the consequences in the future. </p>
<p>Swatparent-
With what they described were the conditions of that floor, I’d not want to be on my hands and knees crawling around with a rag and a brush. Ewww. Much prefer the healthy distance from the floor afforded by a mop!!</p>
<p>I agree that the maids striking is not the solution and posted that earlier. But by the same token, something had to be done because the maids should not be expected to go beyond regular and reasonable cleaning. Appaerntly it was a real big problem on that floor and so some guidelines needed to be drawn up and for those who didn’t meet them, lose privileges. I also think that the problem could be discussed with the residential advisor for the dorm with all the students on the floor to reach a solution and to also figure out who were the problem makers (kids talk one on one with resident house manager and some of it could be determined).</p>
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<p>That’s great, but this isn’t science camp. Would you agree to group punishment within your neighborhood housing community? If not, what basis do you have for speaking of college students collectively while not expecting the same standards to apply to you and your neighbors?</p>
<p>I cross posted with Jym but agree with her…the problem is discussed by the group…the standards and consequences are set by those in charge and then some peer pressure kicks in and some collaboration occurs to solve this problem. </p>
<p>Vyse…no need for a week’s worth of groceries…a mop, rags, paper towels, trash bags, cleaning solutions, etc. carried amongst a few guys is not a lot. Really now.</p>
<p>Again, it just seems like too much trouble for the majority of people who didn’t do anything wrong.</p>
<p>Vyse,
How do you propose they solve this problem on that floor then? Do you think it is reasonable for the maids to go beyond the norm of the job to clean up what was described? This was not the norm for other floors or dorms. Does anything go? You say it was too much trouble for many to clean up after others if they themselves did nothing wrong. But do you think it is all right for the maids to deal with this behavior that was not truly what their job normally might involve? And so who should clean it up? Who should be responsible for maintaining a basic level of order? Should there be rules? Should there be consequences? Should there be housing contracts? Does anything go? Is a maid a slave or is the maid supposed to do the basic cleaning one would expect? What do you propose?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, **** happens. (Literally in this case). And ultimately I do feel it falls on the university staff to deal with it.</p>
<p>Let me again propose the question of how this floor of young men is any functionally different than the neighborhood you and your family live in. If your next door neighbor did something like this, would you expect to have to pitch in and clean up their mess?</p>
<p>
Vyse-
This has nothing to do with science camp- this is an explanantion of normal human behavior. If young siblings leave toys out all over the house, you tell them that at 8 pm you are going to take all the toys that are on the floor away for a week, regardless of who took them out, whose they are and who played with them. The siblings then (usually!) work cooperatively to pick them up, because losing the toys, xbox, wii, etc AFFECTS THEM ALL. Even if kid #1 played with kid #2’s legos, and kid #2 doesnt want to lose them, then kid #2 is either going to have to get kid#1 to pick them up, or he is going to have to do it himself (but chances are, kid #2 also messed with something of of kid #1, so they have to work cooperatively for the same end goal.) If kid #1 didnt make his bed, that doesnt affect kid 2, and kid 1 can clearly be identified. So making the bed is kid #1’s responsibility, not kid #2. In the dorm situation, the filth and excrement in common areas due to the absence of the maids AFFECTS THEM ALL, and if the perpertators cannot be clearly identified, the responsibility to clean up should be shared.</p>
<p>In your neighborhood analogy, there are group consequences when something in the neighborhood affects them all. There are neighborhood rules (called restrictive covenants) and annual dues paid by all members of the homeowners association. If someone trashes the pool and tennis courts, for example, and it costs thousands of dollars to fix, the residents may have to pay more into the funds b/c fixing the pool is the responsibility of all neighbors, regardless of whether they use the pool or not. If people speed, they either get a ticket, if the speeder is identified, or they may have to put in speed bumps, a PIA consequence that affects them all, even if someone doesn’t happen to speed and is a good, law-abiding citizen. </p>
<p>If you live in a condo and major repairs are necessary in some part of the building, all residents pay to fix it. In the dorm situation, if the culprits causing the major mess cannot be clearly identified and the maids refuse to go above and beyond the call of duty, the resultant mess affects them all. If the culprits causing the biohazard can clearly be identified, then they should be responsible for the clean-up. If not, then it has to be a group effort. In your neighbor example, the owner of the dog can clearly be identified, so the dog owner is responsible for the consequences of his dog. If the owner of the dog cannot be identified and the jogger sues the homeowners association, then guess what, everyone pays. And in neighborhoods, many volunteers pitch in to handle different aspects of the neighborhood needs (eg landscaping, holiday decorating, etc). In the dorm case, there were volunteers who offered to handle it. I think that volunteerism is a great first option, but if for some reason they can’t do it by having kids volunteer, then the group will have to all pitch in together because the all live there together. I don’t live in the same house as my neighbor with the bad dog. But I do live in the same neighborhood. If the jogger sues him, too bad for him, as it doesn’t affect me or the whole neighborhood, unless as I said, the whole neighborhood gets sued. Then it affects me and my neighbors. </p>
<p>When my s was in 2nd grade, there was a silly rule about watch alarms not beeping on the hour. Several kids forgot to reset the alarms and they went off during school. The teacher had warned them and they still didnt turn them off. When it happened one last time, the teacher asked whose it was. No one fessed up, and no one ratted on their friend. So they all missed recess as a consequence. This may not be the best example, but when the culprit(s) couldn’t or wouldnt be identified, the group paid the consequence (and, ultimately, the kids reset their watches).</p>