<p>I never realized that Middle schools have started the IB program, too! It seems a tad extreme…while it’s excellent that these schools are trying to improve the transition into high school, isn’t adding a middle school IB program just increasing the pressure on kids even earlier?</p>
<p>IB has an elementary level program, called Primary years too. Neither Primary nor Middle years is nearly as intense as the Diploma program. They have the same focus on international learning (a foreign language program is required for both). And on collaboration between curriculums (connections between different subjects) and in-depth learning (they prepare an extended project with a lot of guidance).</p>
<p>I’ve only heard about it, never done it, but the program seems nice enough. I think it’s great. My elementary school actually uses a lot of those tactics without using the actual program (I don’t see it becoming popular except at perhaps the pricier academic private schools - the program is too expensive to implement and with state standards the way they are, too hard to work around). The MSs in the DC that have had this were generally using it a magnet to attract the wealthier families in Md who may otherwise choose private school, thus bringing in kids prime for raising test score averages. </p>
<p>You can read more about all the programs at <a href=“http://www.ibo.org%5B/url%5D”>www.ibo.org</a></p>
<p>There are public IB middle magnets in our county. However, admission is by lottery, rather than the selective admissions of the IB magnet high schools. I do believe the grads of the IB middles are looked on favorably in the IB high school application process, though.</p>
<p>It’s important to realize that the IB primary and middle years programs were designed for ALL students, while the diploma (last two years of high school) program is intended only for students who will go on to what the Europeans call “university” and we Americans call selective colleges.</p>
<p>So the middle years IB is not as intense as the diploma program IB, which should be reassuring.</p>
<p>At the same time, I wonder whether the middle years IB is adequate preparation for the diploma program IB, which could be a cause for concern.</p>
<p>At my daughter’s school, it has been traditional for students going into the IB diploma program to do a special pre-IB program in 9th and 10th grade that is specifically designed to get them ready for the intensity of IB. Recently, an IB middle years program was also instituted, and some kids from that program go into the IB diploma program. I have been told by students that the kids from the middle years program are not as well prepared as the others and seem more likely to struggle in the diploma program. I do not know, however, whether this is due to the nature of the program itself or is a function of how it is implemented in our school system.</p>
<p>my son attends a middle years IB program – it is by selective admission, but in our district many kids qualify that probably shouldn’t and they don’t make it to the end of the year. our middle years program lasts from 6th grade to 10th grade and then the kids enter the diploma program. our middle years program is a direct feed into the diploma program and the majority of the kids continue on the track – with some drop-outs every year. It seems the intensity and demands increase each year. My son started in 6th grade and just finished 7th grade. He hasn’t found the work hard and doesn’t do much homework – but I know several kids that will be dropping the program after this year, their parents said they just couldn’t keep up with the homework load. (I have no idea why my son does so little homework – he really isn’t that focused).</p>
<p>I have wondered whether the demand would prepare him well for the IB diploma program – it is suppose to in our school district, but he doesn’t seem to do enough writing. Maybe I have higher expectations for middle school than I should. I know that he was concerned enough about his lack of reading and writing practice to take a great books class this summer and a class on essay writing. I do know that my son went from kid that hated to write anything in beginning 6th grade to a kid that loves to write and thinks nothing of sitting down and writing a two page paper for an evening of homework (although I must say, the quality of that two page paper is lacking in my estimation). </p>
<p>I have a feeling that he will see a big change in the work load for 8th grade – but he knows it and says he is prepared to be more organized.</p>
<p>hsmomstef, if your school system is using the middle years program as a direct feed into the diploma program, I think the students will be OK.</p>
<p>But they are certainly going to have to write in the diploma program. In addition to the 4000-word extended essay, my daughter had to write a 2000-word paper for her higher level IB history course, as well as numerous other essays. And except for science and math, the IB exams are entirely essay. Even in foreign languages. For history, they had to write for *five hours<a href=“not%20all%20in%20one%20day%20–%20the%20exam%20was%20split%20between%20two%20days”>/i</a>. The biggest complaint I heard from IB seniors during the exam period is that their writing hands hurt.</p>
<p>Oddly, though, all this writing didn’t help my daughter any with her college essays. In fact, she thought that it made things worse. IB students are trained to write an a very academic, impersonal style. Trying to write in your own voice for a college admissions essay after having had people systematically train you not to write in that way is really difficult.</p>
<p>Marian – I had heard that writing was a big part and that is why I was confused by the lack of writing on the 6th/7th grade years. Maybe they are doing shorter pieces in class to establish the groundwork. He is taking a high school level class at CTD this summer – three week learning how to write a good non-fiction essay. I think he will learn alot and be able to apply it to his writing in 8th grade – I have a feeling the expectations for writing will be alot more in 8th grade.</p>
<p>And the reverse is also true. College students often hae difficulty writing in the academic style. High school writing should not be about learning to write college application essays!</p>
<p>True, but going through a high school program that is designed to stamp out the very qualities of writing that make for a good college admissions essay seems counterproductive in some ways.</p>
<p>One of the things I dislike about IB is that students learn to write, over and over, the exact sorts of things that they will have to write on the IB examinations – but they never write anything else. There is a repetitious sameness to the assignments. I wonder what will happen when my daughter gets to college and is asked to write something greatly different in style and tone from an IB assignment. She may be poorly prepared for that, even though IB has prepared her well in many other ways.</p>
<p>College profs seem to prefer students who have gone through the IB program to those who have gone through the AP program because IB students know how to write like college students. </p>
<p>Concerning middle school IB:
The middle school curriculum is the weakest part of the American k-12 curriculum. Some time ago, our district considered introducing IB and in particlar the middle school program as it was known to be more rigorous than the middle school curriculum. The whole district then underwent enormous changes, whose impact are still being felt today, so no step was taken to follow up on the suggestion. I would not be surprised if the suggestion gets revived later.</p>
<p>Same here. I couldn’t understand why my daughter was having so much trouble with the app essays, since she was writing a ton for classes. “Dad, that’s different from ‘creative’ writing” was her reply.</p>
<p>We have one in our county. In 6th grade students take French and Spanish and Pre-Algebra. In 7th grade they choose which language to continue with and start Algebra I and in 8th grade they continue with the language and take geometry I. The other classes are honors versions of the regular classes other students take.</p>
<p>I went to the feeder middle school to our city’s IB program (and later went on to IB). Evidently the middle school once had the middle years program, but dropped it fairly quickly, and is now simply a generic academic magnet.</p>
<p>With regard to the writing of IB–perhaps it is taught differently at my school (in fact, I believe one of our weaknesses in terms of how we score on IB tests stems from this), but I have not found that I’ve been “coached” on writing in one particular way, such that it limits me in other writing. I suppose I have for some particular papers: History DBQ, sure. But one writing category that we received the most specific practice on was the English commentary. But I believe the fact that commentaries involve personal feeling, and allow you to change your mind as you progress, etc etc, would actually promote the ability to write in a personal matter. In fact, when we first started writing for IB, our teachers had to break us of the “never use ‘I’” habit that state standardized tests, and APs, had instilled.
I’m entering college in the fall, so I do not yet have experience with college writing, but everything I’ve heard from other graduates of my school says that they have been well prepared.</p>
<p>The kids at my daughter’s school are most definitely coached, which has a lot to do with the school’s 95%+ pass rate for the IB diploma. In fact, the only people who fail are those who don’t show up for a test or don’t complete an IB requirement (EE, CAS, or one of the IAs or EAs). It has been years since anyone actually failed to get the diploma because of an inadequate test score.</p>
<p>For the record, as regards the impersonal style of writing promoted by the IB program:</p>
<p>I think it’s a spectacular way of doing things. Students in college have to write the vast majority of assignments in the impersonal, precise prose that the IB teaches students to use (especially in Theory of Knowledge, which more than any other course has really changed my writing style). While creative writing might be important in the singular - though important - exercise of application essay writing, that’s really not an argument for basing any program of study around it.</p>
<p>It’s the less standardized of the two programs though, and I don’t really see how they could standardize it less. There is room for creativity if you choose - I never choose it, but some people do. The World Lit 2 paper can be done on a creative option, like a pastiche, although you do have to explain it. Your formal oral presentation can have creative elements - someone in my class last year who received the highest score, full marks, did a dramatic reading of two pieces she had created herself as extensions of characters and then explained them. World Lit 1 can be on any legitimate topic you choose. Your extended essay can be on any topic you choose. We got to choose our internal assessment topics in every class, business is kind of neat, you approach a business, conduct interviews and primary research, and then you have to choose a problem to focus on and come up with recommendations. TOK is pretty open ended, they give you some prompts that are almost too broad and the point is personal response (within reason of the syllabus, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have a syllabus). </p>
<p>But the truth is, not everyone is or wants to be creative in the sense of writing (it is far more popular to just do a commentary for World Lit 2. It’s way easier for most people). Those people may seem to be doing the same thing, I don’t know, I haven’t felt that it was overly repetitive, but people would probably do the same thing if they weren’t in IB. I don’t feel like I’d be any better or worse at writing colleges essays if I hadn’t done IB. You either have it or you don’t. I’m okay at writing, above average but nothing special. IB has definitely facilitated my speed of writing, but it hasn’t been at the detriment of any creativity. </p>
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<p>Kind of, if you’re in a language A2 (i.e. if you’re fluent in a language other than english and your school offers more than one choice for language A) then that would be all writing. But for most, the foreign language is their language B (non native language, or native language that isn’t offered as a language A), and the paper 1 of language B is pretty much all multiple choice, matching, fill in the blank type stuff, it’s sort of hard to describe, then you write 100 words at the end. Paper 2 is 250 words and they give some choices with prompts for a letter, diary entry, speech, etc stuff like that. </p>
<p>The IAs aren’t very hard since you usually turn in parts over the course of a few months. We did all of ours over two years. The IA for Math wasn’t that hard, just annoying. For science it’s the lab book which is no big deal. The extended essay is the worst part but eventually you get over it, I just stayed up all night one night and did mine to get it over with and then tweaked it a lot from there. Once you just start it it’s a lot better. People try and make IB sound too scary, it’s not that bad in the end, the truth is there are a few periods where it seems unmanageable and then you just get stuff done and it’s over with. I did 4 HLs and 7 IB classes both years and I still had enough free time, less than most of my friends and we did get more projects than the kids at AP schools, but it depends. That would be the equivalent of taking some certificates which is a different story. The toughest part really is that some people seem to stall out on the math or science and just can’t fulfill that requirement. We have just IB and it’s non magnet so then they just drop diploma and do certificates.</p>
<p>There are also IB elementary schools, but they are not advanced in any way. Elementary schools just use the same philosophy (areas of interaction, etc).</p>
<p>“However, admission is by lottery, rather than the selective admissions of the IB magnet high schools.”</p>
<p>That’s not true, at least for my school. You have to apply. Here, admission is based mainly on fifth grade teacher recs and standardized test scores. The admission rate is very high, however. Probably around 90%–but they recommend that your standardized test scores are in the 80th percentile or higher.</p>
<p>The elementary school in our neighborhood has recently completed its certification for the primary years program, which will officially begin this fall. I’m sorry my kids are too old for it now–my youngest is a rising junior and he would have loved the program.</p>