<p>Is an Elite Education Worth $170,000 in Debt?</p>
<p>Frankly, I have always felt that getting a good education without debt beats going to a top elite school while incurring a lot of debt. If I had a kid who was smart enough to get into a top school, I would advise them to attend our state university with a full scholarship that they probably would qualify for over attending the top school UNLESS the top school made it very affordable with scholarships.</p>
<p>I’m with you taxguy. We are lucky enough to be able to fully fund our retirement accounts and have savings in addition to paying full freight for an expensive school. As much as we value education, and believe that some expensive schools are “worth it,” they are not worth significant debt. </p>
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Still, Weathers reassured his family, who didn’t know much about applying for loans, that it would all work out. April turned into summer, which dragged into fall, and on the first day of school, Weathers still hadn’t gotten the loans he needed. He said he applied to scholarships, but they were all need-based. So now, weeks after school has started, he’s scrambling to get a loan, while his father has applied to refinance his home. The first time Weathers went to the financial aid office to see if he could improve his package, he said a school official suggested he look into transfer options.</p>
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<p>His family aren’t a bunch of dolts. His family earns $175k, so why the heck did they believe an 18 year old who said that he’d “work it out” getting costs covered when he got so little of aid? Who’d believe a kid could get lots of funding on his own. WHY would they let him show up at a school where he still didn’t have costs covered??</p>
<p>The kid didn’t even apply to any safeties. Now he’s stuck. If he transfers, he won’t like get the merit scholarships that he would as an incoming frosh. </p>
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<p>??? $170k for undergrad and then another $250-300k+ for law or med school. These people need their heads examined. where are their thinking skills?</p>
<p>Borrowing that much is insane. I hope his parents take their heads out of the sand and speak up. </p>
<p>No school is worth even half that much debt. </p>
<p>It appears that the dad is supporting two ‘non-minor’ adult children, neither of whom are mentally or physically impaired. It also mentions grandchildren but doesn’t state whether or not his daughters are married. And his wife doesn’t work. It seems like there are a couple of fixes here – Mom should go to work. Has she never worked? THink of all the money they could have socked away if she got a job. The daughters should go to work. THe dads should pay child support. THis is a stupid story. None of these issues are the university’s fault or society’s fault. THis family has made some questionable decisions.</p>
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THis family has made some questionable decisions.</p>
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<p>The family is lacking in thinking skills…a whole lotta magical thinking going on. </p>
<p>Is the dad going to keep borrowing from his home or co-signing loans? </p>
<p>I can understand the excitement of having a first family member go to college, but the family has some unrealistic expectations as to how much more the student will earn by going to THAT school. Neither career (medicine or law) are going to pay him more because he went to Williams instead of UIUC or some other place.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids, I completely agree with you. I think the parents and the kids made some dreadful financial decisions in allowing this situation. If they are incurring 170K for just undergrad and another 200K for grad/professional, it will take YEARS to dig themselves out of this debt , assuming they can even do it successfully. </p>
<p>However, this is the thinking of many parents here on College Confidential. There is a very widespread belief of “attend the best ranked school and finances be damned.” It is very sad</p>
<p>Wow. We will likely take on debt, debt that we had previously and paid off for our house, to send my son to college. We could have kept the debt on our house, and saved for college instead. Does the family in question have a lot of equity in their house, or not?</p>
<p>This family needs either a) a VERY sympathetic college that will take into account that the parents are supporting on-paper independent adult children, or b) get the college student to a CC for two years, one that has a transfer agreement with a decent four-year school, and then worry about medical or law school.</p>
<p>The family is setting themselves up for eight years of paying for school for this child, and they still have two previous children at home? </p>
<p>To me, $400 sneakers are expensive, but this family makes more money than we do, and it is STILL a shock? How dare the kid act like “we are poor” compared to other Williams’ students, yet his father makes what he does? </p>
<p>Get junior to a school they can pay for. Maybe the key is that dad wants junior to take out loans, and junior thinks dad should pay 100%. That’s a totally different issue. Sounds to me that it is not that dad <em>can’t</em> afford Williams, it’s that he doesn’t <em>want</em> to pay for Williams.</p>
<p>" However, this is the thinking of many of the parents here on College Confidential." </p>
<p>Really? I’d’ve been here for years and would argue the opposite. It’s the rare parent on CC who says “attend the best ranked school and finances be damned.” </p>
<p>I’ve gotten dissed about likely paying my son’s college education partially from our HELOC, as we had planned.</p>
<p>I feel that most parents on CC recognize college costs much more than the average parent, which has helped us a lot, and even those who are full pay recognize that ROI = how happy your child will be there vs. other schools plus potential career options and it’s not always worth it.</p>
<p>To me, this is kind of sad. Sure, the kid and the family should have known better. What is sad to me, is that the kid’s HS counsellor didn’t explain the whole “paying for college” thing. When my kids were in HS, they had several parents meetings to explain college costs, financial aid, etc. Sounds like a lot of magical thinking going on. Money for college doesn’t just appear from nowhere, even if you feel you are deserving. Sad for this kid, cause I predict that he is not going to make it through Williams. And if he drops out, it might be likely that he never ends up going to college.</p>
<p>My son’s GC has not had any parent meetings, but they have really general “info sessions” that most parents don’t get. They don’t run through situations that are specific enough for each family.</p>
<p>99% of our prep for FA issues has been my internet searches and using NPCs. If dad has a responsible job where he can’t deal with it, and mom doesn’t work and maybe doesn’t know how to deal with it, they might be dependent on GCs and the school - and both dropped the ball in this case.</p>
<p>(or had 200 students to deal with and did not have the time to tailor their advice to individual families)
(yes, I emailed my son’s GC today, not regarding FA but a college app issue!)</p>
<p>Of course not. Certainly not for a top student who could have attended another very good school for a much lower net cost. </p>
<p>However, in 2012 an income of $90K or more would put you in the top quartile. At a college like Williams (including some private schools less selective than Williams) anyone with an income less than about $120K/year probably is paying less than the sticker price of an in-state public university (~$25K). That covers a lot of ground that is well within any reasonable definition of “middle class”. So if it is true that middle class students are rare at some of these “expensive, elite institutions”, that may be due to other factors besides cost. </p>
<p>According to IPEDS data, in 2011-12 the average cost to attend Williams College for a family income of $48,001 - $75,000 was $14,885. The average cost to attend Williams College for a family income of $75,001 - $110,000 was $19,735. By comparison, the average cost to attend the University of Illinois Urbana-Campaign for a family income of $48,001 - $75,000 was $18,591. For a family income of $75,001 - $110,000, the average UIUC cost was $24,421. For many middle class students who can get into them, “expensive, elite institutions” are actually cheaper than the in-state public alternatives.</p>
<p>Every college (even Harvard and Stanford) puts a limit on need-based aid. $175K/year may not make you “rich”, but it is far above the median income. I believe the Williams College administrator who says that this family’s situation is “highly unusual”. </p>
<p>This kid was close to making a quantum jump from the previous generation. But, for want of a nail …</p>
<p>As a family that pays a heap of taxes, this kind of stuff makes me crazy. I don’t know the school involved, but odds are that the football field lights are working. And yet, the GC completely dropped the ball, and probably touts this kid as a success. </p>
<p>I read on wsj that education cost increases the most compare to other cost for inflation. Something like 42%. That’s where the middle class squeeze comes from.</p>
<p>What I see a lot of on College Confidential is along the lines of “we’re lucky that we have been able to money and afford to send our kids to the schools that will give them the best opportunities that they wouldn’t be able to get at CC/StateU.” But this is often paired with, “kids who come from families who can’t afford this can get just as good of an education by going to CC/StateU.” Everyone has a different standard when it’s their own kid.</p>
<p>But the problem here is systemic. As the article points out, choosing colleges and making sense of financial aid options is confusing even for the smartest, most on-top-of-it families. It’s ridiculous to expect everyone - especially first generation college students - to know how to make sense of this or even know how to access available resources. But that still does nothing to address dramatically rising college costs and the growing class disparity this perpetuates. Yes, this family made poor choices, but you can also see how the other factors compounded the issue and how the small mistakes early piled up.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but I don’t think an undergrad education is worth $100,000 in debt either. That is too much.</p>
<p>The family in this article had stars in their eyes…and no reality check when it comes to finances.</p>
<p>And the last thing I would recommend is that any family hock their home to pay for college. There simply is too much at stake in doing so. Ditto borrowing from 401k or other retirement accounts.</p>
<p>My opinion is that every student can find a college that is affordable to the family…if they try to do so.</p>
<p>The school this student attended, Johnson Prep charter school in Chicago, just graduated their first class. This student was their first valedictorian. Hopefully this NBC news story will help them improve their college advising process!</p>
<p>MCAT…are you talking about medical school or law school?</p>
<p>I think it’s important to minimize student debt…period. </p>
<p>For medical schools, the costs are staggering. Having undergrad debt makes it more staggering. But regardless of the medical,school, a doctor is a doctor, and will likely be employed as a doctor. They will likely be able to pay their professional school debt…but it won’t be fun!</p>
<p>For law school (this is my opinion only ). There are a lot of lawyers…maybe too many. Grads from many law schools have difficulty finding well compensated employment. In my opinion, unless you are attending a top 10 law school where your chances at a high paying job are higher…you should do the best to minimize your debt. You might not have a job at the end of your law school years…and you will still have staggering debt.</p>