zooserman, my sister became a partner at a NYC firm without doing any of that; she’s never been in a court except for jury duty. She went to a night law school because that was what was available. She worked at a corporation, right beside grads of UMich and UTexas and Harvard law, etc. She worked. She then went to work at a firm and became a partner. She then went to Leboeuf and later became a partner (in her year, only 2 of the new partners (out of 50?) were female, and I’ll bet the other did go to a T-14 school). She knew some people looked down on her education but she didn’t let it bother her or stop her. That was my point. Someone is always going to judge you by your school, whether it cost you $170k or was free. Only YOU can control how much that judging affects your career.
Of course MOST people do careers the traditional way, by going to top schools, by doing a judicial clerkship, by working at daddy’s firm. It is entirely possible to do it another way. A former boss attended CSU, Colorado State. He worked at Goldman. No mba, no special family connections. No one could believe how he ever was hired. He was an egotistical ass, that’s how he was hired. He thought he was wonderful and assumed everyone else did too.
@MiamiDAP, did you daughter choose to attend an Ivy for med school? I vaguely remember you said that as did Curmudgeon’s daughter. She chose a full ride UG and went to an Ivy med school.
Ah, I think I understand. You believe people should consider in-state publics to avoid hefty college debt. MY point is that the majority of families in this country can’t afford that either; they require debt to attend their in-state publics too (in my state it’s $80k+, idk what it is in others). The choice you’re presenting as an option (pulling $100k out of retirement funds PLUS full med school costs PLUS the entire higher education of a sibling AFTER paying for private high school) isn’t one that’s available to many, many people, certainly not anybody I consider “middle class.”
I do think people are different and will prefer different things, but I disagree that there’s no general answer to, "Is going $170k in debt worth it? For the majority of people in this country, I think the answer is no.
It’s actually zoosermom, but that aside, I have been in recruiting in similar firms for almost 30 years, and actually was the hiring coordinator for some of the refugees from Dewey & LeBoeuf. I’m confident that your sister is a spectacular success, but the fact is that everything has changed in law in the last 5 years. EVERYTHING and if your sister didn’t go to one of the top law schools, she wouldn’t be hired today. That is true of many of the partners working today and it reflects a total change of culture in many firms. You can control your debt. You can NOT control what schools law firms hire from and what process each uses. Trust me. I do this for a living.
zoosermom; my sister tells me the same; how she’d never today have the chances she had from her large NW state L school. she got in the tech bubble at the right time, 17 yrs ago. Today, she’s mentioned its all different for the big players.
I believe Miami’s daughter is in Ohio for med school. Last I heard, there were no Ivy League schools in Ohio. Miami has reported that her daughter attended a top med school located in Ohio, I believe. Her residency is wherever the med school is located.
The question here is…if the parents did not fully fund medical school, would it have been OK to have loans for med school, like so many have.
Doing the math…free undergrad tuition instate saved the family about $40,000…which is good.
Med school costs about $50,000 a year.
The savings on undergrad school did not fully enable the family to fully fund medical school.
But it’s a wonderful gift to their daughter that they were able to do so. I hope she takes good care of them in their golden years, since they seem to have withdrawn retirement money to help her.
No. I feel like so many people have “SUCKER” written all over their forehead. Go to the best state school for undergraduate work, do well, and get into the best Ivy league/top school for graduate/law/MBA/etc.
Again, the difference between playing football at ND and Williams is the difference between a Julliiard cello player and someone who plays Ukulele player in the park. Don’t conflate the two–a recruited ND football player in athletic terms is the equivalent to a 2400 SAT and unweighted 4.0.
I disagree. Some schools are well worth spending $170K. What DOESN’T make sense is being $170K IN DEBT at the end of any undergraduate experience. If a family can afford to be full pay and it doesn’t affect their lifestyle or retirement planning, they are most fortunate. If they can afford to pay for private high school, $25K/yr in undergrad costs, be full pay in medical school for 4 years and spend $10K to travel around to all the residency interviews, they are most fortunate.
Perhaps my memory is failing, but I thought she said her daughter went to a top Ivy for medical school thousands of posts ago.
In any case I think she said her D went to a private medical school.
Ohio has 5 medical schools, 4 of which are public and could have saved Miami a bunch of money. Why did her daughter decide to go to the one and only private? I don’t see one medical school outranks the rest for the price difference.
I think one’s abilities can have students attend whatever UG they can manage. Often very bright people also have insight into being very well rounded in being self educated from an early age; perhaps their own natural curiosity.
Sometimes early financial adversity in life makes one very driven to achieving financial success. One guy Dave Ramsey talks about is a guy that grew up in a home with a dirt floor - and he couldn’t stop thinking about earning money even when very wealthy because that early memory of the poverty haunted him. I would have used therapy!
I steer parents to CC so they can learn about colleges and options. Not just ‘buy in’ to previous thoughts about colleges and options.
Many of us have made sacrifices for our children to have a great education (towards a successful career and hopefully a happy and fulfilling life).
We are in the middle of an ‘evolving story’. 2 kids still in UG. We parents are 6 years away from retirement (at age 65). Kids should come out of UG debt free, due to in-state scholarships, pre-paid college plan through state, and college fund enhanced a little by one grandparent’s two small life insurance policies. Not an easy story - I had stage III cancer when kids were in 8th and 10th grade and heavy medical treatments over a four year period. ‘What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger’.
I am trying to forewarn my nephew and his wife - they are expecting their 3rd child, and I think they will have to plan their money very carefully to have their children college educated when the time comes. Although we all know that college tuition is rising faster than inflation, I just saw a 2012 report by consulting firm Bain and Co where college tuition in 2030 is projected to be accelerating at 6.5X CPI! YIKES!
We have a lot of paradigm changes to deal with in our current day. Having a child be successfully college educated now is more difficult IMHO than even 10 years ago. I think with so much electronic and other distractions, being prepared enough out of HS to do well enough with college courses and career plans. It seems many young adults need a longer time to ‘grow up’. Want things more immediately. A portion of young people are having to go to rehab for serious drug abuse - also a drain on finances and health, never mind prospects in life. I wonder about the tattoos and piercings and long term earnings too.
Another distraction is the break down of families - so with the extra costs of two households instead of one, blending families, perhaps lack of coping skills. Psychological and other obstacles. I do understand many times better function can evolve out of different family arrangements because it does take two to make a marriage work. However how much of the root cause of the family breakdown is due to someone not staying loyal/true to spouse, being selfish, etc.
I’m struck by the sense of entitlement for simply being a black val.
Article also doesn’t mention what aid he may have received from these schools.
I wonder if the senior Mr. Weathers ever considered it realistic to pay off a $170k mortgage in just 4 years. If not, I wonder why he thought he could finance a $170k college degree in just 4 years.