The majority of students at the top law schools are borrowing $150k plus. At YHS, at least, it’s usually not a mistake.
"Sure, an elite education is worth PAYING 170k, when State U is costing 120k. "
-This is NOT the cse for those who HAVE a choice of paing to Elite college because they were ACCEPTED THERE.
Those who are accepted at Elite college had a choice to apply to State U and be accpted there with huge Merit offer which is most likely to be full tuition / full ride or something close. They also had choices to get accepted to many privates where they would be offerred grat Merit awards approaching a full tuition.
Sorry, but comparison above is not valid, it is not stating the facts correctly. The question is if “elite education is worth PAYING 170k, when State U is costing free tuition or even a full ride”
Miami,
Didn’t you say your dau’s undergrad cost $100K? To some, paying $17,500K more a year for an elite college education is worth it to them. Just not $170K of DEBT.
And a student has the choice to apply to a State U. Unless its an auto admit school they don’t automatically have a choice… until they are accepted. We already know that many perfectly qualified students get denied at good schools. They don’t automatically have a “choice to get accepted”, as you say.
Umm… say what? Smith is a single sex school, and “he” probably wouldn’t be enrolled there.
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Miami,
Didn’t you say your dau’s undergrad cost $100K? To some, paying $17,500K more a year for an elite college education is worth it to them. Just not $170K of DEBT.
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I am not @MiamiDAP but if her D’s costs were $25k per year when she had free tuition, then something unnecessary was being paid for. I know her D was in a sorority, so maybe if she belonged to a pricey one, there were additional costs.
But, typically, the cost of room, board, fees, and books is less than $15k at a state school, so I’m not sure where the extra $10k was spent. Usually if you’re eating in the House, then your meal plan costs go way down.
Here’s what she shared, m2ck http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/17454201/#Comment_17454201
And my post #163 is in response to a now absent post. Sorry to confuse anyone, but with the quote from the previous post saved, at least it makes some sense… sorta.
I don’t see the big deal with 170K if the salary outlook after professional school is 200K by the 3rd year in, with 60K increases biannually, dependent on performance. That’s just buying an expensive sports car and CC dues.
Archer,
People are saying grad school debt may be reasonable and understandable. Just not 170K in undergrad debt.
Hi jym - To clarify, I did mean undergraduate debt. Straight shot from the start, and all that.
Well good luck to you if you want to start out life with 170K in debt. It can affect your ability to secure credit cards, rent, a car (if you need it), you name it. And unless you plan to live on a very very tight budget, it will take several years, with not intervening extenuating circumstances, to pay that off.
And as an aside, I’d discourage my kids from getting seriously involved with someone who graduated college with a boatload of debt.
I agree, @jym626. I don’t have anything against falling in love with a ‘poor man,’ but I think I’d object to one in hock up to his eyeballs.
Couldn’t agree more, austinmshauri, except in my case its a woman in hock up to her eyeballs that I would want my kiddos to avoid. Actually, younger s’s gf will have grad school debt, but hopefully it wont be too big (I don’t ask) and hopefully she will be employed after she completes her internship. Its not an extremely lucrative field, but its fine and what she enjoys. As has been said, grad/professional school debt seems a bit more palatable. Sure some kids can get those high paying job right out of undergrad, but even so, I cant imagine the burden of that kind of debt hanging over a young professional’s head. Here’s a timely article http://www.apa.org/monitor/2015/04/money-stress.aspx
The point about people and relationships were there is significant debt is important. There’s a couple (one of which is a kid of my mom’s friend), and they both have a lot of undergrad debt. $100K each, something in that arena. They are living in NY, which needless to say is quite expensive, and it is EXTREMELY difficult for them. I think the husband was struggling to find work the last I heard, which was a couple years ago so I may be wrong, they have at least one kid the last I heard, so… yeah. Bad situation.
New thing to tell your kids - if someone asks you out, ask if they are taking out loans for undergrad and if so, how much, before deciding to say yes or no!
The point is not how much debt the prospective partner is carrying- the point is how responsible they are being in paying it off.
We often forget with the horror stories of the kids loaded with debt who are working the cash register at Target that all over America there are kids with debt who go to work every day, make their payments every month; when they get a raise they often accelerate their payments instead of going off to Aruba to celebrate-- when their expenses unexpectedly go down (landlord agrees to a reduction in rent in exchange for shoveling snow for the mailman ) they apply the extra cash to their payments.
I know young people who work in occupational therapy, nursing, the law, government, K-12 education, etc. who would not be working where they are without debt. And guess what? They’ll never make the news. Some of them have roommates and take public transportation (the occasional zipcar to go to Costco but they realize that owning a car is financially out of reach for now); some of them entertain by cooking dinner for a bunch of friends instead of “clubbing”; some of them have taken jobs in “hard to staff” locations because it comes with a salary differential and a low cost of living to boot.
The point is not how much- the point is to have a plan to pay it off AND to be diligent and responsible enough to pay it off. Not every 30 year old wants to be living with two roommates… but since the kid I know in that situation is on the verge of paying off both undergrad and grad- he’s THRILLED at the prospect of being able to apply his loan payments to rent on his own place or a mortgage.
Thats a wonderful plan, and hopefully many can follow it, blossom, but the reality in many cases is that young professionals making entry level salaries will have to budget very tightly to handle day to day expenses and make a dent in their debt.
Shouldn’t the debt load be considered in relation to the expected income? The student may start out middle class but isn’t the educational method meant to bump people up a few notches? (I mean, if not, then why bother putting in all that effort?) If the graduate can expect steady employment with a relatively high salary (plus benefits) for 5 to 10 years in the aftermath of school, then it doesn’t seem like the student debt load is going to be a big problem when spread out over several years, especially if salaries trend higher over the time frame while the debt stays relatively steady or diminishes rapidly because of accelerated repayment.
Expected income can be a nebulous target, and if you start out with a boatload of debt, it will be all that much harder to get out of that “middle class” (or wherever) category. Education should help launch ones career path. But there are many ways of launching without being strapped with $170K in debt from undergrad. And yes, student debt load (and default) is a big problem.
My kids will have no debt for undergrad. I REALLY don’t want them to marry someone who comes into a marriage with 170K debt, plus perhaps another 170K for grad school/med school, etc. I’m hoping to help my kids buy their first house, etc. but I hate the idea that my child will spend the first however many years of marriage to pay off their spouse’s debt and that in a sense I will be paying that too if I’m subsidizing their house so they can pay off someone else’s debt. I had a friend who had an early started marriage and subsequently got divorced and she ended up being responsible for half her first husband’s debt from law school.
I would think that starting off life with a huge amount of debt would make you darned near unmarriageable! (Gack, I sound like the Princeton mom, but you know what I mean . … )
^^ A prenup may be applicable and appropriate in situation like this.
Sorry, I’m one of those who believe the amount of debt is key. Anything above the Stafford amounts is a huge risk IMHO, even for STEM majors. Having a plan to pay it off and being able to successfully pull that off are two different things. ■■■■ happens, and you can’t always prepare for it. And I say that as someone who took out loans to pay for college. But only so many. To this day I can’t figure out how I knew back then with no parental input or help how much exactly was “too much,” but I knew. When Reagan eliminated the National Student Direct Loan program my senior year and I had to take out a bank loan, I knew I was teetering very close to the brink. My last year of college cost as much to finance as the previous three combined, but at that point, it was still the cheapest way to complete my degree. And taking on debt without completing the degree was an even worse option.
I paid all of my loans off a month before I married my husband. It wasn’t easy, and I didn’t own a car until I was nearly 30, but I was determined not to bring any debt into my marriage. There’s nothing wrong with taking out loans, when there are no other options and when the amounts and the terms are reasonable, but folks really need to run the numbers and involve their children in the process before they sign on the dotted line. That “$170,000” is just the amount of the loan–by the time you’ve paid it off, it’s how much money exactly? And unlike a mortgage, it’s a debt that usually can’t be eliminated in bankruptcy. I don’t care how much you think you’re going to make, those are scary numbers.