This thread has kind of devolved into a public vs private argument. To the OP: it sounds like your kid will do fine at the good public and it will strain your finances to do the private. Go for the public. It is unlikely that a kid like yours who 'blooms where he is planted ’ will have a significantly different college outcome at one than the other. Especially if you either hire a college counselor with the money you are saving or stay on CC and read critically.
If you think there are social or other issues then that’s another story.
Both my kids went to privates. I believe they both had fabulous educations they could not have gotten at our public. I also honestly don’t think the colleges the applied to would be different if they had gone to public school. So if it’s about getting the kid into Harvard, the private won’t help.
If it’s about the school experience, I also found it was easier for kid to participate in sports, music and theater at the private. I liked that they were thoughtful about the curriculum and didn’t just layer on APs. I also found more socio-economic diversity than the public but it wasn’t a magnet. I don’t know about those. But again if this is about getting into a better college don’t think the private will do it for you. If it’s about the high school experience then that’s another issue that you need to weigh.
I agree. And in my experience (gained long before I knew this site existed but reinforced once I got here), that’s pretty much a pointless argument to have. Too many entrenched views with very vested interests involving the one aspect of our lives that typically means as much as any other (our kids) and much uncertainly in terms of the many choices made over the 18+ years they live under our “control” and guidance (with those making different choices by human nature causing at least some twinge of doubt (even if subconscious)). But in the end, much more often than not it isn’t a matter of making the right or wrong choice but of making a different choice.
What do you have against construction workers or homeless people? And lumping them in with drug dealers?!!
Most construction workers and homeless are just regular people trying to get by like the rest of us…
One older college classmate refused an opportunity from a mutual friend to cover his social science/humanities survey class sections at a community college even though he could use the teaching/public speaking experience. Especially considering the presentations he gave in class during our undergrad years showed he had serious presentation issues despite taking several public speaking classes/ECs at his prep school.
I took the experience and despite having less grad school experience than the friend and only providing tutoring sessions to small groups previously, had no issues covering 2 course sections of 50-70 community college students* for an hour each. And I spent the hour covering the course material my instructor friend would have covered if he didn’t have to leave for a sudden family emergency.
Still surprised the feedback was positive to the point a few students shook my hand and they asked the regular instructor whether I’ll be back to sub again.
Especially considering you’ve missed an earlier posting of mine where I said contrary to oldfort’s initial posting which concurs with your own observed experience, those observations are much more likely to be indicative of the individuals themselves than the schools they attended.
I am reporting what my kid said to me. It was based a lot on class discussions in college where he was surprised at the assumptions the prep school kids made. I was surprised. I spent plenty of time second guessing our educational decisions. Though for my oldest it was mostly about whether or not we should homeschool. Most of the private schools around here wouldn’t have met his wants either. Our public school really is diverse - there are kids who’s parents live in million dollar houses and others who were in public housing. My younger son in particular had friends in both camps.
As for talking to contractors and blue collar workers I do it nearly every day. They are the backbone of my business. I’ve got some wealthy clients, but the majority are lower middle class and many are recent immigrants. My younger son is planning on joining the Navy, so I hope he doesn’t come off as too upper crust.
And again, I loved my private school. I did not rule out private school for either kid. In the end being able to coast a bit served my older son well, because it gave him plenty of time to really delve into his passion. And my younger son seemed to think we made the right decision for him too.
I had a friend who sent one kid to a top prep school and thought that especially for teaching writing, they didn’t hold a candle to our local public, but her younger son had good reasons for wanting to stay in the public school. Ironically they both ended up at U of Chicago. I think in the end the family and what your bring to the school makes a lot of difference and ends up being more important than the school itself.
We believe that a stellar high school education trumps college simply because when a kid receives (and truly consumes) a top-notch high school education, college takes care of itself. Fortunately, we only have one child and could pay for both but, if we had to choose, I suspect we’d have chosen to spend the money on high school. We never wasted any energy worrying about college. Ironically, our son chose a service academy, so we ended up not having to pay for college but, of course, we couldn’t have seen that at the time we allowed him to go to boarding school, so it didn’t factor in to our equation. We’ll just get to retire a little earlier.
We were not forced to send our son to boarding school; no one held a gun to our heads. The fact that we could clearly see the advantages of a top prep school over mediocre local options was what put it on the table. There was no contest. As for comparing a top prep to a truly top public, we didn’t have that lucky choice, but I do know what those schools look like; I went to one. If you are comparing top private and top publics for college results, I think you should save your money as your child will do just fine from a good public school. I am not in the camp that puts any stock in college rankings. An excellent education can be had at dozens and dozens of colleges, and your student will find a seat at an excellent table from a public school. Remember, MOST students at those excellent colleges did NOT go to private schools, yet there they are.
Once you go beyond academics, you do need to determine what you think a private school will provide that your good public option will not and how much you're willing to pay for that differential. We don't know what your options and comparisons are, so we can't help you much there. Our son benefited from extremely small class sizes (six or seven students in some cases), amazing teachers, a diverse student body, and exposure to things (like crew) that he could not have gotten at home, but many of those things can be had at a good public school as well. OP, only you know what you're looking at and can make these comparisons and determine what value to place on them. From the little you've shared, I don't see that you have a problem. I just think you have some parental anxiety because you want the best for your child's education and you're not sure if he'll be missing something critical if he stays in his public school. I don't think he will. Also, I suspect your son is healthy and well-loved, so you've already given him what really counts. Good luck as you decide what to do, but I don't think your child will suffer from the status quo, so don't lose any sleep.
Oh, and if I thought my son were going to put his high school on his post-college resume, I’d cringe.
@ChoatieMom You know I didn’t mean “forced” as in “forced by holding a gun on your heads”. My bad in choosing the wrong word. But I think I got your situation right the first time after all… We were in a somewhat different situation when we chose to send our kids to prep schools, so naturally I had a different perspective. I believe top prep schools are worth a closer look if it’s a possible option to the family regardless what local options they have. Is a private education critical and necessary for future success? Of course not. But a top notch education is not a given in many schools and a prep school may have significant life long impact to some kids. Don’t just brush the idea off.
I’m certainly not brushing the idea off, pan. You know me from the BS forum where I have posted countless times the “priceless” (to us) things that our son took away from Choate. The school served him well; he is well educated in a way he could not have been at home. I think I am clearly advising the OP to look at their particular public/private options, determine if there are any significant differences, and if those differences are important to them, to weigh the cost but not lose any sleep given that a good public is available.
Just an aside, but that comment is a bit amusing as historically, the Navy officer corps was considered a bastion of the upper-crust separate from the enlisted ranks to a greater extent than the Army in the US and some other countries(I.e. Imperial Japan).
This was especially the case right before Pearl Harbor and the entry of the US into WWII.
You and possibly your son may be interested in the following website depicting the stark difference in living/working conditions between officer and enlisted sailors during the early years of the steel navy at steelnavyDOTorg
My daughter graduated from our township public HS (+1.9 in NYT) and struggles at her elite college. She was not used to produce 20 pages papers for multiple subjects on a regular basis. According to her observations her classmates who graduated from the elite private HSs found their university easier than their high schools.
She has a middle school friend who went to a pretty good private HS (tuition 40K+/y) who is now doing pre-med at NYU. She also finds NYU much easier than her HS. (By the way, neighborhood public school kids introduced this girl to weed and drinking so that she would be totality prepared for the real world so no worries on this front).
My daughter has already announced that her children would attend a private school. More power to her.
Most of my public magnet HS classmates and I found HS to be much easier than HS and I had no issues producing 15-20 page papers, especially considering my HS required everyone to write a 20 page senior English lit thesis on top of our regular workload in order to graduate.
Also, I found my college Profs were much more lenient in terms of rigor/grading than my HS teachers…especially a couple of 9th grade teachers I’ve had for history and English lit. I found the grad school Profs also more lenient in grading than my HS teachers.
If I had to choose between HS and college/grad school to do over again at a reasonable pace for me…college/grad school by a mile.
My dad “officially” introduced me to drinking at 11 to “make a man out of me”.
However, the widespread presence of alcoholic and drug addicts in my old neighborhood made drinking/drugs highly unappealing to me through college despite the fact weed/psychedelics were quite widespread at Oberlin when I attended. Heck, I even turned down an offer from a Prof to partake in an exotic liquor as I had an exam the following morning.
It took me a few years after college to become a casual social drinker…and even then…that’s often only if the drinks/food are free or obtainable through party-crashing.
since the OP implied they would be looking toward privates for an edge, here is some food for thought in a sweepingly generalized way.
Privates, and probably more so Elite Preps, tend to be academically advanced and demanding. while a kid might be a standout in a public, you may find they are woefully underprepared to go private, especially at the high school level. not only do peers have the advantage of a much faster past academic path, but they tend to have better soft skills due to different expectations–better time management, better workload management, better self discipline, etc. they may have accelerated to a point where your public kid cant truly catch up, no matter how bright they are, and it could be an extremely frustrating experience for them. imo, if this was your plan, it would have been easier to do at entering middle school level instead of high school.
my point is no matter how well someone “tests in”, there may be bigger gaps than you realize compared to the actual peers–i’d want to make sure i wasnt setting my kid up for failure through no fault of their own.
as a product of both private and public, i can tell you i was mostly very, very ahead in the public arena due to the incredibly robust education i got privately. privately, i was pretty average (i still have lousy study skills!). either way, it was tough to go back and forth between types of schools.
my .02.
but if i was looking for an edge, i’d want to take everything into consideration.
That too depends upon the job he is seeking. If, for example, he should decide to apply for one of the year or two post-college teaching (paid) internships at a boarding school as a way to find out whether he’d enjoy teaching…or just to take a break before going on to grad or professional school, I’d recommend he list his prep school.
If he ended up in a college outside New England, especially one in a warm climate, and you aren’t from New England, he might want to list it on his resume when applying for a job in New England. Why? He has some local ties and he’s experienced New England winters.
This is very YMMV depending on the individual and private school…including some Elite preps. One thing I’ve noticed among many boarding/private school alums at my LAC was how many amazingly felt our Profs were “too rigid” because they weren’t as lenient in granting deadline extensions on papers/written assignments as their private/boarding school instructors.
In contrast, no one at my public magnet or some non-magnet public high schools I know of would have thought to ask for an extension as doing so tended to prompt teachers to remind them that in many areas of adult life such as work or social obligations, one often cannot ask for extensions on a regular basis without coming across as an undependable flake*. In fact, one HS teacher I’ve had went so far as to promptly shut/lock the classroom door right after the bell and mark students absent if they are even a second late to reinforce that point.
From that context, while I was horrid at time management in HS, once I arrived in undergrad…time management literally became child’s play for me and most HS classmates despite my maxing out my semester load, participating in EC/campus activities, and working 20 hours a week. And contrary to those private/boarding school classmates who complained about our “rigid” Profs, I felt the Profs were overly generous about providing extensions at the drop of the hat. Even when it was quite clear the classmate concerned needed the extension because he/she goofed off most of the term.
This was further underscored when one older classmate with such issues visited my public magnet on a trip to NYC on a regular school day before 2001 and admitted he probably wouldn’t have lasted a few weeks there. He graduated within the top 10-15% of his boarding school graduating class and was admitted to two Ivies including one as a legacy because his grandparent donated generous sums there.
Some who continued having such issues ran into serious issues with employers post-college as most employers tend to have little tolerance for employees who have consistent issues with meeting deadlines for job related tasks/projects.
Going into debt for private high school only makes sense to me if your child needs something very specific that school can offer, as in special ed services your school district can’t or won’t
Don’t be fooled by admissions statistics. You need to find out if that 30-40% being admitted to Ivies is because they’re hooked (legacies, athletes, children of faculty, etc.), because if your son isn’t any of those things, all things being equal, he may have a better chance being admitted to an Ivy from his public high school, where his stats really stand out.
At many elite private high schools, a quarter of the class could have “Ivy level” scores and GPAs. That’s only one hurdle to get over.
A private education is worth a sacrifice for many parents because of the quality of the education in and of itself, but I wouldn’t go into debt for it. How would you pay for college?
I suggest you go back and reread all the reasons why your kid doesn’t need to go to a private high school to get into an Ivy League college.
First, borrowing money to pay for private high school is crazy. How are you proposing to pay for the Ivy school your child is still not very likely to get into? You will be saddled with huge debt before your kid is even close to going to college, where you or your kid will be saddled with yet more debt. That makes zero sense. Do you ever plan to retire? Do you have other kids? If you think your kid will be able to repay your debts because he will become wildly successful as a result of getting into one of eight colleges, then you might be in for a rude awakening.
I don’t understand your statement that you don’t think other kids who get into those colleges are better than yours. That goes without saying. And it should also go without saying that the vast, huge majority of people who go on to lead happy and successful lives don’t graduate from Ivy League schools.
Re Trump’s daughter. Just, what??? One, Trump has, I assume, rather a lot of money with which to send his daughter to private school. And two, I know he has a couple of daughters, but for the life of me, I can’t think of any spectacular success that have achieved with their educations. Certainly not any more spectacular than anyone else who has been to college.
Don’t confuse correlation and cause. Or average success with individual success. There’s no golden key. Do the best you can with what you’ve got, and don’t go into debt if you can possibly avoid it.
