@doschicos good link.
I’ll add this one, too: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/upshot/the-divorce-surge-is-over-but-the-myth-lives-on.html?_r=0
I think the theory about marriages not being designed to last 70 years is a good one and makes a lot of logical sense. I also don’t understand why we paint divorces as failures. Life is too danged short to be unhappy IMO.
" but I would imagine that even those “crappy moms” you’re describing are doing some things…even if it’s ordering take-out, buying their kids’ clothes, taking them for haircuts, dentist appts, doctor appts, grocery shopping, attending some kid functions, some family functions, etc. I’m talking about a whole ’ other level."
You might be surprised. Some do the very bare minimum. I just don’t think it is a gender thing. Nor do I think good parenting is in the domain of females. I’ve seen too much proof of the opposite. Bad parenting is bad parenting whether one is stinky with a gaming controller in hand or spends all day focused on oneself in other ways.
^^^
I totally agree that both males and females can be poor parents! My MIL, very nice lady, was really a poor parent…very neglectful in many ways! Preferred to sit with friends talking, drinking coffee, and smoking ciggies.
I wasn’t really talking only about the parenting aspect. I’m talking the whole shebang…
<<<
Sometimes even our own marriages are resistant to understanding. I spend a lot of time (probably too much) wondering what I did or what about me made my ex-H want to leave me.
[/QUOTE]
@rosered55 It wasn’t likely anything you did wrong. But when you look at it from his perspective, he had spotty employement, had questionable ethics, and therefore being around hard-working, ethical attorney wife was probably a constant reminder of his short-comings.
It was probably easier, and less “painful” to run-away to his parents’ home where such visual and moral reminders didn’t exist.
In our 13 hours cul-de-sac, there have been four mid-life divorces.
One of the takeaways from John Gottman’s book “A Man’s Guide to Women” is that the happiness of a marriage is 90% dependent on the behavior of the man. Harboring a grudge over a wife’s butt width would just be a sign the marriage was broken from the start. Also, as great lakes mom pointed out early in the discussion, infidelity is a symptom and not a cause. I may buy a copy for my boys to read as it clearly delineates the habits men need for good relationships.
Really? 90% dependent on the behavior of the man? Do you recall enough detail about the book to elaborate?
Men seem to get most of the blame in this thread.
In my experience, women are more likely to be the verbally abusive partner, and then it becomes a matter of when, not if, the guy will walk. If you are your spouse’s biggest critic (maybe the only person who ever yells abuse at him), not his friend or supporter, then the marriage will break. Weight is not the major issue.
“that the happiness of a marriage is 90% dependent on the behavior of the man”
I have a hard time believing this.
Tangentially related, women are just as likely to be unfaithful as men.
http://nymag.com/betamale/2016/05/women-are-now-cheating-as-much-as-men-but-with-fewer-consequences.html
Both can be at fault. Or something unpredictable went wrong. We can’t generalize.
Some of this is in the eye of the beholder.
Imho, it takes both to make and maintain a strong relationship. I don’t buy that it’s 90% on one side of the other.
@sorghum, I was not verbally abusive to my ex-H. I never yelled abuse at him. I did, however, occasionally express my discontent with his refusal to look for work during two long (multiyear) stretches of unemployment. He told me that it bothered him that I talked about the problem. So, yeah, he would have been much more content with a marriage in which I kept my mouth shut.
Take it up with Gottman as it’s not my number. The idea was that women’s relationship behavior is much less variable than men’s. I will have to get the book out of the library again to check.
This, from the synopsis:
I have read Gottman’s work, and think he really hits the nail on the head in a number of ways, though had not read the bit about men making or breaking relationships.
From Wikipedia, “Gottman’s theory states that there are four major emotional reactions that are destructive and thus are the four predictors to a divorce: criticism, defensiveness, stonewalling, and contempt. Among these four, Gottman considers contempt the most important of them all.”
Contempt is something I recognize in myself, and now know it is something I have to guard against in my relationships, from reading Gottman’s work.
@NorthernMom61 Surprisingly this has not been a problem for us. We always agreed on how to raise our children, and with having boyfriends or girlfriends has been no different. We have been open and honest and advised them to not rush anything and take it one day at a time and ALWAYS support each other.
I personally make sure my kids know that counseling is a very important part of a relationship, and not to wait, and if things get rocky address it early, do not wait!!
I guess there is a silver lining 
I also read the “5 Languages of Love” and found it very interesting. H’s primary language is touch and that is my absolute dead last. I can’t stand massage, won’t go for manicures or pedicures and am not a hugger of anyone but my kids. My language is acts of service but H used to think that meant buying me flowers, which I hate and consider a total waste of space and money. I tried to accommodate to H’s language but I cringed every time he touched me after I found out about his cheating and, thankfully, he has stopped trying. The denial of Viagra might play a part in that, lol.
I also read Gottman and found his research on contempt fascinating as well. When the whole thing first happened, every word out of my mouth was sarcastic, nasty and designed to show my disdain and contempt for him and his yard tools. I lost no opportunity to make snarky puns and witticisms at their expense, even in front of my children, who were young enough that it went over their heads. Eventually, I got past that need. Now, I just basically ignore him, though I must admit that an episode of Dr. Phil, Judge Judy and some of the Real Housewives often lends itself to a “reminiscence.”
Gottman has a 20 minute on line video on “How to,survive an affair”.
I shared this with an 87 y o patient. In later years, her husband admitted to a few long time affairs, she questioned her whole life as a fantasy, and regretted how hard she worked as a mother, teacher, and wife.
As a young grad student, I liked many of Gottman’s ideas, e.g. 4 compliments for every criticism. I would combine that with ann Landers advice about thinking of 3 things your spouse does that annoy you, and let them go. Being practical, I’d search for a solution. If he drops his clothes by side of bed, put the hamper right there, if he is sloppy with toothpaste, get him his own brand. You get the idea.
Sometimes, just fix with a smile. I’ve had men leave wet towels on bathroom floors, and women leaves cups/glasses around. Takes less time to pick up then to complain.
When my first DD approached HS graduation we began to see a flurry of divorces, not necessarily close friends, but amongst the small town school involved parents. I saw:
A friend with one left in school admitted she was gay and had been living a lie- the exDH soon remarried
A guy with HS kids came out as a woman- not sure whatever happened with them
A great beloved couple where the DH was actually a jerk if you knew them well split up, I am sure most in the community were shocked, but those who knew them well were relieved, for her, she’s a great person. Both are remarried,
Another couple split, things had seemed fine for the past 15 years, but who knows.
A friend had surgery and ended up on heavy pain meds, permanently, eventually they split up & the non-medicated one remarried
A friend had tried counseling for years, her now ex is just an A$$, he just is, and after the youngest graduated, she threw in the towel, both are remarried, though many of us wanted to ask his new fiancee what she was thinking 
Two sisters who complained for years how their parents divorce when they were in their twenties negatively affected them- both divorced and remarried. One due to an affair, and one due to a death in the family causing her to admit it had never been the right choice.
Another friend’s DH left her, she tried to get them back together, they have a mentally ill child and Dad just could not take it
In some cases, you could see it coming, in some cases, it was a surprise. The stated reason is just the most obvious, I am sure there were many causes, but they were all happening right around the time the oldest child either had recently finished HS or was about to.
I think when we see that light at the end of the tunnel, it is a time for re-evaluating where you are and where you had hoped to be and where you want to go. I can see that if we had not firmly committed to choose some new things together, DH and I could have drifted apart. Life is busy and it’s easy to let the relationship maintenance be the low priority item, assuming it will always be there.
Fascinating thread. I, too, have not seen men who do nothing as a trend. I certainly see marriages in which the man works hard at his job but does very little with the kids, except perhaps with sports.
As for women’s happiness being less now than in the 1970s, that article was pre-recession so things may have changed. Women at that time were also less likely to report low self esteem, feelings of worthlessness, poor health or major depression than in the 1970s and earlier However, expectations have changed too. Women in the 2000s expected more from a marriage,than to be taken care of and in many cases wanted a career and a family.
The vast majority of my friends have remained married. In 3 of 5 divorces I can think of, alcoholism played a big role. In 2 of those marriages, the wife was always the main breadwinner. In the third, they flipped roles when the kids got older and the wife then became the breadwinner so the husband could get out of a job he hated, but led to his drinking becoming a very big problem. None of theses 3 wives have done much dating, not sure that is related.
There have been very few divorces among our circle of acquaintances, and the ones with which I am familiar took place relatively early in the marriage when the kids were young. However, I know several couples with second homes who spend much of their time apart. One has a condo in the city where their daughter lives. The wife works a schedule where she has a lot of days off in a row and goes there every chance she gets. The other has a retired husband who spends most of his time at their lake house while the working wife stays in town. People have mentioned upthread that some couples can’t afford to get a divorce … maybe some couples do this because they can afford not to get a divorce.
One of my friends from HS (male) recently separated from his wife. Unfortunately he regaled me with the details – he claims it was because she didn’t want much sex anymore, while he did.
I really didn’t need to know that.