Mississippi and school funding lawsuit

Mississippi is being sued using a reconstruction era law in order to force the state to equally provide education for all.

One of the parents has a child that is at a school where only 4% of the children are at grade level for math. In my opinion this is a national tragedy that so much potential is being left unenriched.

There are several news articles about this. I chose CBS news.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mississippi-leaders-sued-over-unequal-education-for-black-students/
"The lawsuit filed by the Southern Poverty Law Center on behalf of four African-American mothers with children in public elementary schools asks a federal judge to force the state’s leaders to comply with the 1870 law, which says Mississippi must never deprive any citizen of the “school rights and privileges” described in its 1868 constitution…

"…All 19 Mississippi school districts rated “F’’ have overwhelmingly African-American student bodies, while the state’s five highest-performing school districts are predominantly white, the SPLC says…”

The statement by the governor includes,
"“This is merely another attempt by the Southern Poverty Law Center to fundraise on the backs of Mississippi taxpayers,” Gov. Phil Bryant said in a statement. “While the SPLC clings to its misguided and cynical views, we will continue to shape Mississippi’s system of public education into the best and most innovative in America.”
http://www.journalgazette.net/news/us/20170524/group-mississippis-best-schools-closed-to-blacks

“we will continue to shape Mississippi’s system of public education into the best and most innovative in America”

… as they continue to be ranked in the mid to high-40s out of the 51 states & DC for school quality.

My Mississippi cousins would definitely be ROTFLOLing on the floor considering their brief experience with the local education system in a rural part of that state.

It’s so bad that even the local private schools don’t feel the need to do much to compete. And to the point that when SAT scores/college outcomes were compared…the local public schools actually came out slightly ahead of the local privates(former Segregation Academies).

One half-joked it made the regular NYC public K-12 curriculum/system seem elite academically in comparison.

A reason why one cousin was sent to an elite NE boarding school and another to a private regional Catholic School which was a 2 hour commute each way by car.

Would be nice if those kids had freedom of choice regarding which school to attend rather than having to litigate.

Freedom of choice means leaving the neighborhood and needing transportation. Why is it that the minority (often) students have to jump through more hoops to get a good education?

ALL the local schools should be adequately maintained, have food that hasn’t spoiled, and teachers that show up. Students should not have to stock the school with toilet paper.

In Indiana school vouchers can be used at schools that turn children away if their parents or gay, if the student has a disability, or if their gpa is lower than they want. They can even require a statement of faith.
http://www.npr.org/2017/05/15/528502918/indianas-school-choice-program-often-underserves-special-needs-students

I think that an individual student in one of those lousy schools should be allowed, if he/she and his parents choose, to leave it an attend elsewhere. Obviously, if they don’t want to leave they won’t. Obviously, if they can’t manage transportation, they won’t leave. Obviously, choice won’t fix all problems. But relegating all of those kids to being trapped in the system while bureaucrats, unions, and politicians try to pour good money after bad is not in the child’s interest.

Were it me, I probably would not send my kid to a school that required a statement of faith because that is in opposition to my views. However, the bias in public education nowadays is wildly opposed to my views and I put up with it. I might accede to a sham statement of faith if the alternative for my child was drugs, violence, and general chaos and I had no other means to provide. There are worse ills and parents should have some options, especially those that can’t move, or gerrymander school districts by owning multiple homes. The apoplexy over school choice, for poor people especially, still amazes me and it is usually from people purporting to be opposing freedom 'for the sake of children."

The issue with public education is a complex one, but ultimately it often comes down to race and class in the current system. Race and class segregation often means that kids in one district have great schools,because they have the tax base and also because many of the people living there are families where the parents are educated and have the means themselves to help their kids in a variety of ways, whereas kids in other districts have low tax base and often the families are struggling (it is usually associated with race, but the reality is a lot of rural school districts that are racially mostly white don’t do very well for much the same reasons).

Some of the problem IMO is how the US is set up, we are the only industrialized country as far as I know where they leave schooling for the most part to the states and local school districts (and yes, it is a constitutional issue, because education by not being in the constitution given to the federal government is a state and local government issue, though there are clauses and reasons why the federal government gets involved), it is ironic that the countries the US compares its education to, the ones who do so well on standardized tests, all have a strong central government control of education or strongly influential. Worse, most school funding is based on local property taxes, and that is the big disaster, it means the very people who need good schools to boost them up (rural areas like Appalachia, inner city areas, etc) don’t have the tax base to pay for what they need, and in many places there is reluctance to make up for the difference with other money, federal or state.

The other factor is the segregation of various sorts that exists in the US, racial and economic, often schools are very much homogenized, ie schools tend to be either entirely poor kids, entirely middle and upper middle income students, or really well off in many places. Scarsdale in Westchester county has some of the highest performing schools in the country, whereas a surrounding city like White Plains has struggling schools in more than a few of its schools, one of the things IMO that helps schools is when there is a mix of kids and kids see something other than their own little bubble, whether it is well off kids or poor kids only. During the Great Depression and in the immediate postwar years NYC had a public education system that was the envy of the world, turned out a lot of high performing kids during one of the worst economic dislocations in US and world history, and one of the reasons was because while NYC was segregated, the schools were still a lot more integrated than today, my mom went to a school that already had a sizeable black population in the Bronx (same high school Colin Power graduated from a number of years later), they had kids who were kids of the working class, middle class kids, and kids whose families were doing relatively well (my mom’s dad worked for the controller of Union Carbide), post war because of white flight and other issues, the schools became what they are today.

It is even worse with states like Mississippi that are very proud of being low tax, across the board their schools are some of the worst in the country and a lot of that is tied to not spending money on the schools (yes, it is true that money alone doesn’t solve problems, but lack of money most definitely is tied to lack of achievement with schools; take a look at the states at the bottom of school performance in the US, and it is directly correlated to being at the bottom of the spending in the US as well).

The US is a funny place, we talk about the value of education, we complain our kids are falling behind, how kids in other countries do better than we do, but when we talk about reforming how the schools are run, people start screaming ‘local control of schools’, when that is often tied to the problems we have.

As far as school choice goes, we have talked about it on here before, but from what i have seen of those programs, the kids it supposedly is supposed to help (kids in failing schools) generally end up not doing much better using a voucher to go to a private school, in large part because the schools they can afford with the voucher aren’t that great, and what they often end up being used for is parents using voucher money to subsidize the tuition to the schools they want their kids to go to, and quite often it isn’t because the school they are leaving is not good, it is because they want their kid to go to a religious school that fits their beliefs, last thing I read about the Indiana voucher program is that most of the people using it are fundamentalist Christians using it to subsidize their kids going to ‘their’ schools that they kids would have gone to anyway, which is not what they advertise the program to be.

School of choice is great for the well-off in suburban/urban areas.

It does absolutely nothing for those who actually need better options except take away precious resources.

Either way, echoing Snowball, why the hell should students have to be shipped around to get a good education? What about, oh I don’t know, actually improving their own local schools?

And don’t give me anything about broken families or the other pathetic excuses I hear when people attempt to explain away achievement gaps. No. These schools don’t even have enough textbooks to go around. Unacceptable.

Re: NYC

Seems like school choice or otherwise attending a school outside of the immediate neighborhood is much more logistically possible for many students using NYC public transportation, reducing one of the barriers to access to school choice in other areas that offer it.

School choice isn’t realistic for rural areas. Those who think it is must not have lived in rural areas before

I’ve seen one or two kids bullied out of school by the administration. That’s one way to keep the stats up. The sons of bachelors who run our local school district desperately need competition, but appear to be terrified of it.

notamused

Conspicuously absent is any mention of what the per pupil funding is at the 19 failing districts. What’s the percentile rank of the failing school districts in terms of per pupil funding?

This comes close enough to answering the question I posed above. There seems to be a weak correlation between per pupil funding and school district grades. This would indicate inept teachers and administrators are likely more at fault for failing school districts than funding issues.

http://empowerms.org/school-district-spending-per-student/

I thought the strategy of the lawsuit was interesting - using a reconstruction era law that was part of the readmission into the union.

Knowing nothing about nothing - Is it a similar strategy that the Native American communities use for fishing and hunting rights based on treaties from the 1800s?

In rural areas, there is obviously less choice. But there are still neighboring districts. The anti-choice crowd also has a limited imagination. If there were choice allowed, maybe new schools would arise.

It seems silly that there are so few choices. In our town, which most would consider rural, we have two high schools - one public with about 500 per class and one private with about 50 per class. Certainly there are some students in the public school who would prefer to take their tax allotment to the private school but they cannot. Guesstimate 10% or 50 students. I doubt our public school would collapse, “resource starved”, to rubble.

As to the argument that students who are given a choice do no better - by whose measure? On this forum, all the time, parents advocate for the students the idea of “fit.” The parents strive for unlimited choice for their children and strategize about how to get into what they perceive to be the best schools. To them I suggest limiting their children to the local college.

@roethlisburger – wow, that chart is very damning on spending/pupil (if accurate). If you sort by “Per Pupil Expenditures” there’s almost an inverse relationship between spending and ratings. The highest spending results in mostly Cs and Ds while the least spending has mostly As and Bs.

A spot check of some of the worst districts show that they are very small. For example, Clay County SD has only 173 students, a whopping $18K/pupil expenditure, 92% black, and has 91% eligible for free lunch. Is the free lunch program included in the spending/pupil number?

@droppedit

Here’s a link directly to a Mississippi Department of Education report if you want to verify those spending numbers.

http://www.mde.k12.ms.us/docs/state-superintendent/superintendent-annual-report-2014.pdf

Actually, it is not too surprising that bad schools can end up spending more. They are often schools which have more problems to deal with (some of which may be the result of poor schooling, others of which may be caused by factors other than the school) that costs money. For example, a school in a higher crime area must spend more on repairing vandalized property, replacing stolen property, security against crime, recruiting teachers since fewer teachers want to teach there, etc., which can cost more while also reducing the amount of money available for education.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/26/milwaukee-middle-school-brawl-five-injured-three-arrested-after-fight.html

It would seem that this school needs more money (and more signs prohibiting misbehavior) and less choice for parents and students.