MIT Postgrad (EECS)

AussieMITWannabe · July 26, 2009, 11:28am

I think my thread placing might be a little off, but I hope everyone here will either indulge me or move it to the appropriate place on my behalf. It’s a little overwhelming being an aussie student and trying to make an academic splash in the States, and I just don’t know where else to start.

I’m on the cusp of finishing a double degree with honours at UNSW in about November, and I’ve set my sights on MIT for 2010. But everything, from the academic year, to the administrative process, to the terminology (i.e. units, mini-mesters), is all alien to me.

I was hoping to sign up to do my master’s and a PhD/ScD with EECS, and cross-register with Harvard (which I’ve been told is an option), but I need to get my bearings first. Would anyone here be so kind as to actually put me through MIT 101, and just let me try and get my head around how the whole thing works there.

I’m struggling with the academic year particularly. Can someone please, outline what the average full-time postgraduate student actually has on their plate each semester, and what options are available during the shortened January semester? I also want to dip my toe into Harvard as well, so anyone with information from their camp is welcome to chime in too.

Are there any mid-semester breaks? And if so, for how long? Do you guys have StuVac (that is, student vacationa one-week break for study before exams start)?

I’m just lost guys, seriously, it’s as though everything is in hieroglyphics, and I don’t know how a damn thing works :-P.

anon89723960 · July 26, 2009, 6:13pm

MIT has two academic terms per year, called semesters. The first runs from September to December and the second runs from February to May. Twelve units is what we designate for one typical class, and represents how many hours a week you should expect to put into a class. (Other schools do their units in different ways - there’s no U.S. standard to what a “unit” or a “credit” is worth.)

Unlike other schools, we do NOT get a week to study for finals, but classes that have finals generally cannot have assignments due (or tests) the last week of classes.

I’m afraid I can’t answer much about graduate school. I think in biology it’s typical to take 48 units (4 classes) for each of the first 4 semesters (two years) and research for the rest. I have no idea about EECS.

AussieMITWannabe · July 26, 2009, 8:51pm

Thanks very much for all that. So for January, you’re essentially off? Or are there additional commitments or just optional opportunities?

OK, so at MIT, “units” are exactly the equivalent of the “credit points” we use here in Oz, expect we just half them. So a twelve unit subject would be a six credit point subject. Which means, roughly, you’d have six hours of lectures/tutorials/etc. per week for such a subject, and be expected to commit six additional hours to it in home study. Right?

I have been told by one of the administrative staff in an e-mail, that the two year PhD/ScD program, where you get masters along the way, does have a research component, but is handled concurrently alongside your formal studies usually. Whether or not that means I’d do less than the “standard” number of units per semester though, I’m uncertain, although I doubt it.

Also, what about some of the lingo floating around? ASEs, APs, and any other relevant piece of jargon you can think off.

Star_1 · July 26, 2009, 9:36pm

You can do anything you want during IAP (that January term). That includes staying home and getting a 6 week break, coming back to campus and doing research, taking fun non-credit classes, or taking up to 12 units of for-credit classes. The choice is 100% up to you. (I don’t know if you’d be expected to just continue with research as a grad student though…).

And yeah, that’s a pretty accurate description of units. Classes break up the units into x-y-z, where x is the hours you’ll spend in a classroom, y is hours in lab, and z is hours doing work outside of class. So a 12 unit class might be 5-0-7, meaning you will have 5 hours of lecture / recitation and an average of 7 hours of homework per week.

APs probably don’t concern you; they’re advanced placement classes that American students take in high school, which often result in university credit.

ASE stands for ‘advanced standing exam’. Those are exams that you can take once you get to MIT to test out of classes you’ve already taken / have learnt the material for.

Other than that, there are the course numbers. For instance, EECS is course 6. Can’t think of anything else, but if you hear something that confuses you, just ask and we’ll explain.

AussieMITWannabe · July 26, 2009, 9:49pm

Thanks for that too. But what’s recitation exactly? I’ve never seen the term used in this context.

AussieMITWannabe · July 26, 2009, 9:52pm

Oh, and before I forget, how does grading work at MIT and Harvard? Letter grades from A-F, or numerical? And if lettering is used, is there a “+” component as well? And what’s the highest GPA?

I CAN’T believe how different tertiary education is between our two countries :-P.

molliebatmit · July 26, 2009, 10:16pm

Alas, there’s not usually that kind of freedom for graduate students. Grad students don’t really get vacations at all, especially after they begin the research component of their degrees – you can negotiate whatever you can with your advisor, but you don’t really get vacation the way undergrads do. Harvard Med has the same schedule as MIT, but grad students don’t get time off during January or during the summer; we’re expected to be doing research, because that’s why we’re paid.

Cross-registration with Harvard is theoretically available to all students including graduate students, but in practice it’s sometimes difficult to fit in a class at Harvard. Your department will set out a set of classes you need to take, and they won’t leave you free time to take electives. And once you start research, your advisor will expect you to take as few classes as possible so you can spend more time in the lab.

MIT classes are graded from A-F. Plus and minus modifiers are awarded, but they don’t factor into your GPA and don’t go on your external transcript. The maximum possible GPA is 5.0 (A = 5.0, B = 4.0, C = 3.0, D = 2.0, F = 0.0). As a graduate student, you probably won’t be that concerned with your GPA – grad school grades aren’t that important for anything, as long as you’re passing your classes.

AussieMITWannabe · July 27, 2009, 2:42am

Hold on, MIT grad students are getting paid to do research? You’re kidding me! What sort of money do they make? Bloody hell. Thanks very much for all that.

I don’t understand why my research adviser would want me taking as few classes as possible. It’s not as if I’m going to subject myself to more classes than necessary, but there is a heavy coursework component to my intended degree as well, so I need to get a set number of units under my belt.

I’m also curious about some of the units I’ve traced up. Some revolve around teaching and doing “other” subjects that aren’t even officially offered, assuming you can find others to be involved. Does anyone have any insight on those?

Star_1 · July 27, 2009, 3:05am

Aww, grad students don’t get IAP?? No wonder they’re always mean and grumpy!

Often larger lecture-style classes will meet in smaller groups a couple of times a week to discuss topics / work though problems. A 200-person lecture might be divided into 10 20-person recitations, lead by TAs, where students can get more personal assistance and ask questions in a more personal setting. So a class might have 3 hours of lecture and 2 hours of recitation each week.

Also note that the max GPA at MIT is a 5.0, but at most schools its a 4.0 (each letter grade is 1 point lower).

As for grad-school related stuff, Mollie is definitely a better source of info than I am… but I’d assume that your research adviser will want you to spend as much time as possible in lab. Any time you’re off taking elective classes at Harvard is cutting into your research time, so that might be a problem… Of course, if its a class required for your degree, that’s another story. But you’ll probably be taking those classes at MIT, not Harvard.

molliebatmit · July 27, 2009, 9:47am

True story. PhD students in the States (and almost everywhere, I think?) have tuition and fees paid for them and make a small living stipend. Stipends vary more by location and field than by school, and I think many of the engineering students at MIT make around $20,000 a year for their stipends. That kind of money doesn’t go too far in Boston, so most grad students live fairly frugally, but not in poverty.

Right, your advisor won’t balk at you taking required courses, but would probably not be pleased if you were taking random electives at Harvard. The courses you are required to take are within the MIT EECS department. Star*'s last paragraph is spot-on: As a graduate student (at MIT or anywhere), you’re something like a vassal of your research advisor, who has the power to approve your course schedule.

At any rate, you’ll only be taking classes during your first year or two in the program, because only 66 units of courses are required for the master’s degree. After that, you’ll be working on your thesis full-time.

So true. Of course, I said that we don’t get vacation, either, and yet here I am on the beach in South Carolina this week. ;)

AussieMITWannabe · July 27, 2009, 12:34pm

Thanks again you know you’re stuff.

Here in Oz, a lot of postgrad students make money, usually through becoming teachers aides and, if they’re lucky, stipends. We still have to pay for the privilege of being put through the wringer though; but if we’re lucky, what we make covers it :-P. Money’s not really an issue for me thoughdid you ever think Apple would be a big deal ten years ago? Because I did :-P.

Harvard is important to me: even if just so I can say I’ve been to MIT AND Harvard, so I’ll fight tooth and nail to get there.

Ok, so my Master of Science would need 66 units to fulfill, and my additional year to get my PhD and ScD would be research-oriented the entire way, with no coursework. Have I got that right? So what determines whether you get a PhD or an ScD? I realise they’re synonymous with one another in the States, but I’m curious why they bother distinguishing.

What about accommodation too. I don’t want to live on campus, but what’s the rental scene like in Cambridge? Any insights? Thanks everyone, you’ve been so helpful :-P.

molliebatmit · July 27, 2009, 5:02pm

Well, you do have to do stuff for the money. The EECS webpage indicates that students are expected to get a research assistantship or a teaching assistantship, which cover tuition and offer a monthly stipend. I would advise trying to get a TA or RA, even if you have enough money, because the stipends aren’t huge, so you can apply your money to living expenses other than what’s covered by your stipend.

There are a ton of apartments in Cambridge and Somerville (which is right next to Cambridge), which is where most students live. Most people live with roommates in multi-bedroom apartments; efficiencies and one-beds are a little too expensive for most people on a student’s salary. I actually live a little further out in the suburbs, where I can afford a bigger apartment for a lot less. But overall, Cambridge/Somerville are very student-friendly.

The SM program generally takes four semesters to complete. I’m not sure what the average time-to-degree is for EECS PhD students; in biology, where I am, it’s 5.5 to 6 years total (including what would be the master’s), and my husband says that aerospace engineering is about the same. So you’d actually probably have 3 or 4 years past your master’s.

With all due respect, and as someone who is/has been a student at both Harvard and MIT, this is not the way you should be thinking.

Graduate school is a time to intensively study a very narrow subject under the supervision of an individual faculty member. You should be thinking about graduate school in terms of which programs you’d like to be in and which faculty members you’d like to work with one-on-one, because that is what will get you to the next step in your career, not having gone to MIT per se.

In contrast to undergrad, nobody really cares where you’re a graduate student, and you won’t develop a strong relationship with the school where you’re a graduate student and the students who are not in your program.

Anyway, that’s my two cents.

AussieMITWannabe · July 27, 2009, 7:00pm

Six years? Yikes. For all it’s faults, the postgrad system is a lot more streamlined Down Under.

I was lead to believe by a Graduate Administrator that I could actually be done in just two. I think there’s been some minor miscommunications :-P.

anon89723960 · July 27, 2009, 8:53pm

You can be done with a Master’s in two years (four semesters, as Mollie mentioned). Perhaps that is what your Graduate Administrator meant? How do PhD’s work in Australia?

AussieMITWannabe · July 27, 2009, 9:57pm

University education is a lot more streamlined in Oz. Three year undergraduate degrees are the norm (plus one more if you do honours). After that, you’re at a crossroads: you can go for a master’s, which is more oriented towards getting into the workforce proper and tends to only take a year. Or you can shoot for the PhD, which is geared towards the career academics, and usually takes two or perhaps three—but you’re working towards it the second you cease to be an undergraduate.

It has its pros and cons. People who know from day dot what they want to be, can get there faster, at the expense of diversity and flexibility. In the States, I think the system is a lot more robust. It takes longer, but you still specialise in your desired niche, and have the added bonus of being more well-rounded and adaptable.

jessiehl · July 28, 2009, 10:07am

This may not be an issue for you if you are independently wealthy, but most people share apartments with others. There are tons of apartments around here, and tons of students and young professionals renting them, so it shouldn’t be hard to find an apartment, but compared to most of the US, housing is expensive here. If you are sharing an apartment with others, expect to pay $500-900/month (in US dollars) yourself, plus utilities. If you get a studio or one-bedroom apartment by yourself, I’d say expect to pay $800-$1800/month for it.

I know you said that you didn’t want to live on campus, but there’s another housing option for PhD students that you might not know about, that is appealing because it’s free. Every undergraduate dormitory at MIT has several PhD students living in it, called GRTs (Graduate Resident Tutors). Despite the name, they don’t actually do much tutoring. They are there to make sure that the undergrads are safe (e.g. steering a potentially suicidal student toward the right resources), occasionally organize dinners and such for them, and play a vague sort of mentorship role. In my undergrad dorm, there was a GRT on each hall (so, one GRT for every 35-40 undergrads), and the GRTs lived in two-room apartments. I think you have to be at least a second-year grad student to be a GRT, but it’s an option worth considering.

Yes, you need to take the required classes, and your advisor will be fine with that. But, as a potential PhD-track student, think of yourself as your future advisor’s apprentice, rather than a student in the sense that you are used to. You work in the advisor’s lab (if you are a research assistant), or on one of the advisor’s courses (if you are a teaching assistant), and in return, your tuition is paid for and you get a small salary (the stipend). You take classes to prepare for your qualification exams, or “quals” (since if you don’t pass them, you can’t continue), to get the degree (since that is the point of your apprenticeship), and to make yourself a better apprentice for your advisor. But your advisor will not like it if you take all the classes you want to take at once, and don’t leave time to do the necessary work in his/her lab or on his/her course.

Also, yeah, you are not finishing the whole program in two years. It is conceivable that you could finish within two years of receiving the master’s degree, but most people take longer.

I HIGHLY recommend buying the book “Getting What You Came For” by Robert Peters. You can ignore the sections on technology, because those are some 15 years out of date, but the book will introduce you to the American graduate school system, and also has a chapter specifically for international students.

jessiehl · July 28, 2009, 10:12am

Also, PhD students can participate in IAP (which was discussed above) like anyone else. I mean, I, as an alumna, can participate in IAP activities as well. But just as I, in the corporate world, don’t get the month off from work, you, a PhD student, don’t get the month off from working for your advisor. You have to schedule your participation in IAP activities around that work. On the bright side, you’ll at least have the month off from classwork.

AussieMITWannabe · July 28, 2009, 10:45am

Thanks again everybody.

Just out of curiosity: how do students who go to MIT at the postgrad level factor into the “class of” thing. I notice that undergrad students basically just add four to their enrollment year to become the class of 2012, 2013, or whatever. But what about the grad student? I’d imagine that ol’ alumni card would just raffle of the year they finished?

mathboy98 · July 28, 2009, 1:32pm

While of course the general premise here is totally true, for what it’s worth some careers that graduate students will apply for might be home to some extent of elitism, though of course the faculty advisor is the most important thing. While I was speaking of academia, I also think in the industrial world, an intelligent person who founded a company behind his own ideas may look to graduates of certain schools first, before looking elsewhere, for the positions demanding more intense qualification.

I think the system there might be similar to that in many foreign countries. I do have to say that I think I like the foreign system up through high school, I think more than the U.S. one in some ways, and for college and beyond, I prefer the U.S. system. After all, one could graduate from college in 2-3 years, and finish graduate school in 2-3 years too. Not unknown to happen among math PhDs focusing in something requiring more of original research and less dragging through mountains of technical machinery.

anon89723960 · July 28, 2009, 1:44pm

[Grad</a> Rat](<a href=“http://alum.mit.edu/news/AlumniNews/Archive/Grad_Rat.jsp]Grad”>http://alum.mit.edu/news/AlumniNews/Archive/Grad_Rat.jsp)

It seems the grad rat lists the department instead of graduating year.

MIT Postgrad (EECS)

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