Mom, I'm home!

jmmom · October 16, 2007, 10:11pm

We are closer to Sarahsmom’s expectations re post-college living for our S than most other posters. We expect that our S will not live with us post-college and we think that is a good expectation for him to have as well. Yes, things are more expensive. But he does not have to start out with owning a home or condo, having a new car, or furnishing it with anything beyond hand-me-downs or thrift shop/flea market buys. He can have roommates, if need be. That is how we each started out and we think it is a fine way for him to start out.

Do we know that this is how it will work for him in two years? We do not. But I think it is a good set of expectations.

The problem with Sarahcousin must have started long before she got to college. No education in money management, no sense of deferred gratification… we could go on. The parents, imho, have some culpability in creating this monster: if my kid was sporting $23K worth of designer clothes, took $5K spring break trips and told me he “had it covered”…??? I might have a question or two about just how he had it covered. An inheritance I didn’t know about? Selling drugs on the side? How deep does a parent have to put his/her head in the sand to wonder what is up or whether credit card debt isn’t a problem? Pretty deep.

doubleplay · October 16, 2007, 10:15pm

I never realized that coming home, working my a$$ off, saving money, depositing on my apartment and buying furniture and car, was self-gratification.

“But he does not have to start out with owning a home or condo, having a new car, or furnishing it with anything beyond hand-me-downs or thrift shop/flea market buys. He can have roommates, if need be. That is how we each started out and we think it is a fine way for him to start out.”

Obviously this refers to my post.

I take offense at the insinuation that somehow my start in adult life was less than noble.

jmmom · October 16, 2007, 10:45pm

My opinion insinuates absolutely nothing about how you, personally, started out in life. It merely states my views of how I started out, how I expect my son to start out and why he might not need to live at home to save for those things. Because I don’t think he needs them to start out. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sarahsmom42 · October 16, 2007, 10:50pm

jmmom, You are absolutely right about the parents being somewhat responsible. Niece obviously was insecure and the signs were definately there. In their defense, however, I will say that I honestly don’t think that my brother or his wife have a clue about Prada or other designers. Even if they did, they would have assumed that these were knock offs from TJ Max or something. My niece always had jobs in college. Her parents assumed that she was paying for her trips. My own D is going to Mexico with two friends over spring break this year. She’s very frugal and has the money because she’s had great summer jobs. I’m happy for her as long as she doesn’t come to us later because she’s broke and want money for whatever.

Teri, No one is blaming my nieces sorority or it’s members for her behavior! I never said that ALL sororities were made up of rich kids, because I know they are not. My niece is obviously very immature and was seeking approval. Her parents should have figured it out and she SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER! As jmmom said, the parents had their heads in the sand and her problems didn’t start at college. Honestly, if she had something to show for her money it would not even bother me so much, but it’s the fact that she paid THOUSANDS in interest, late fees and fines to hide it from her parents! My brother and his wife are truly intelligent people and this is the youngest child. She has four sibs who are all quite responsible and very productive adults. One is an orthopedic surgeon. Who knows, maybe it was rebellion. It just makes me sick.

frazzled1 · October 17, 2007, 8:09am

Just sharing our experience: my oldest d had a fellowship lined up after graduation when she realized that she simply did not want to be part of the academic world any longer. She loved her field of study but didn’t want the life of a TA and didn’t want to struggle financially for the next however many years.

She made a go of it on her own in her college town for several months (even had a job with health insurance), but finally realized she could devote more time to finding a professional-level position at home. We welcomed her happily; all of us knew it was temporary. She immediately found a job working 60 hours a week co-managing a large new retail store; then took a second retail job for 20-30 hours a week. She wasn’t happy knowing that some onlookers would brand her a screw-up because she had moved in with mom and dad after graduation.

Six months later she was able to transfer as a co-manager to a large city 400 miles away; continued working for the second retailer, too. She decided she wanted to work in sales in a particular industry, but knew that previous industrial sales experience would be necessary to even get an interview. So she became an account rep in a completely uninteresting field, working for a big-name company known for abusing its sales force. She gutted it out for more than a year before she got that interview. And now she has her dream job, and is kicking butt at it. Not to be crass, but she’s making a ton of money. She is completely financially independent (though we are repaying her unsub Stafford loan, because we can afford it. But so could she). She has $25K in the bank. Next week she will be 24 years old.

I agree that college grads - all young adults, really - should have a life plan that gets them to financial independence sooner rather than later. I think most grads would rather not live at home a minute longer than necessary. I’m so glad we gave our d those few months after graduation to get her feet on the ground. Plus, she’s a great cook, so it was really nice having her around. :)

soozievt · October 17, 2007, 10:20am

JmMom…I feel as you do. While we never have come right out and said to the kids, “you can’t come home and live here when college ends,” I truly don’t expect them to do so and I don’t think they expect to either and I actually think it is better for them if they don’t. I would allow it but I just don’t think that is what will happen, nor what is best for them. Like you, I don’t think they need to live at home to save up for things like houses or cars, etc. I ws married 8 years before I owned a home and even then, it was with help. I was even a student when I was married! I don’t think you have to have all these things to be on your own. Like you said, you can scrounge for furnishings, have roommates, etc. and gradually work your way up to the bigger things in getting “settled.” You don’t have to have those things when you leave the nest. You can start out by living on your own and within the means of whatever starter job you have.

Back to Sarahsmom’s niece. I agree with others that I can’t imagine the parents not even wondering where this kind of money was coming from. If they saw their kid on breaks and she had a lot of new clothes and purses and really good stuff, wouldn’t they wonder how she could afford it? Same with vacations? They would be aware of her income from any jobs she had and it is not too hard to estimate what the kid can do with that and it doesn’t remotely match up with what she was doing and buying.

I guess we all do things differently. I know every cent my kids have. Some of it they are given and for specific purposes. Some of it are earnings they have and I know exactly the sum of that and what they are intending to use it for (which is up to them of course). They even discuss with us how they will use their own money…a certain amount for spending money at school and then what sums they are saving for something bigger. In fact, this JUST came up with D2. She already has all her spending money for four years of college saved up from prior work (and we also give our kids a monthly allowance for spending money…so they have some of theirs and some of ours…and we also choose to pay for books, clothing allowance, travel home). However, she has earned a bunch of money lately beyond what she had figured and needed for her regular monthly spending money and had put it away with the thought of using it either for travel (her sister has funded her own trips) and/or toward summer rent if she is in the city next summer working. She has the chance to go to London and Amsterdam for ten days over break and was discussing the trip with us, even though it is all her money and she debated whether to use her money for this, how much, and what else she might use it for and so forth. She totally discussed this in great detail and it was even HER money. I know exactly what she’s got and have even put it in a bank here for her. The decision was hers to make but we are very aware of our kids’s funds and what they are used for.

We do happen to pay for their clothing but they report every clothing purchase to us and I keep a running total as they are not allowed to go over a certain yearly amount. So, I truly have tabs on that too. They report all books and supplies purchased and we reimburse them for that. They have monthly spending money that they earned, plus that we give them and I don’t know exactly each purchase there but I definitely know how much of their own money was taken to school to cover the year (one D took it for the year, and another has us transfer her OWN money to her monthly as she does better that way then a year’s lump sum), and I know how much is given to them monthly for food. So, there is no way they could buy thousands’ worth of something as I know how much they have of their own to spend and how much we give them and where that money is. They have debit cards but I know what’s in their accounts…both what we put there and what THEY put there to take to college from their own earnings/savings. They have our credit card and may only use it for approved purchases such as books/supplies or clothing within their budget and to let us know every charge as it is made. I can’t imagine seeing my kids with the kinds of clothing/purses or any hard goods, let alone trips, that Sarahsmom’s niece had and not knowing where that money came from. I just cannot.

As far as a job…she doesn’t HAVE to create her own job…I was just saying that as one possibility. Even my own kid without a college degree has managed to do that starting at 16 and earns at least $25/hour doing jobs of her own creation. She doesn’t have to work as a checker for min. wage even without a college degree. But I was saying that your niece could get ANY job that requires a college education, even if not in her field, besides being a checker at CVS. She should be job hunting and maybe working at CVS until she secures a better job. She doesn’t have to teach. There are numerous jobs requiring an educated person. I even think there are numerous jobs related to the arts that could use someone with her background. So, I think there are some bigger issues going on for her given the huge debt she accrued at a very young age, and that she is working as a checker post graduation. Also, my children go to school with many extremely wealthy kids whose families have several homes and the kids have designer this or that. It doesn’t affect what my kids have or purchase. My kids have a LOT of friends and they keep up just fine with their friends without having to own or do what they all do. Granted, my children are not poor. They have never complained and feel lucky for what they DO have, even though they know some kids where money is no object and it is an object for my kids.

A.S.A.P · October 17, 2007, 10:48am

frazzled- You must be very proud of your daughter!

Our kids know that our door is always open for them. They are both responsible kids and are doing their best where they are. If that were to change, and they needed a place to land for awhile, they would be welcome back in our home for as long as they needed, and we’d provide whatever encouragement or help they would need for them to take off again-hopefully, for good.
I’m not going to comment on Sarahsmom’s niece except to say it takes some kids longer to grow up than others, even in the best of circumstances.
My heart goes out to her parents. They sound like caring people.

garland · October 17, 2007, 11:26am

that’s exactly how I feel. I would never want to put even the hint of a value judgment on a decision that might (and has) landed them at home for a period of time. I trust I brought them up well, I know they have good characters, and I know that I don’t need to weigh them with “expectations”: they have their own, and I can rely on them to get where they need to be, without making them feel that the use of family supportiveness engenders some kind of judgment on who they are.

fendergirl · October 17, 2007, 11:35am

re: saving for a home. You also have to take in mind sooz that houses cost 59359x more now then they were when you were our age… at least here in my area. If I were to buy a house similar to the one my parents have, my mortgage would be 4x what they are paying for theirs - for the same house. I know, my friend just bought one and that’s what he’s paying. If you are renting for 8 years or whatever it’s going to be next to impossible to save up enough down money or anything to afford a house of that magnitude. (This is just a small, ranch home). Unless you’re making 100k a year at your jobs and banking a huge sum every month while renting, it’s not entirely likely IMO.

I moved home after school, got a job, saved up money. I paid off my car that I bought at the beginning of senior year (I paid off a 4 year loan in under 2 years), bought myself a lot of stuff - a new tv (mine broke), computer (mine broke), digital camera (mine broke), an new bed - that I wouldn’t have been able to afford if I was renting my own place. After I paid off my car I started saving up for my house purchase and that’s going pretty well so far. I’m not going to say how much I have because that’s kind of a personal question, but it’s enough that I could pay cash for a new car if I for some reason wanted one. I recently got a new job which I’ll be starting shortly and with that I’ll be able to save up money quicker. I look at houses all the time and I still think that one near by is totally awesome. (that I posted about a few months ago). I think what will happen is I’ll keep living at home saving, my boyfriend will keep living at home (and paying off his new car and saving the rest) and then at some point we’ll get engaged/married, put our money together, and buy a house. We had gone out before looking for apartments but decided to hold off on wasting money (as both of our parents LOVE having us at home and would welcome us even if we were 40) and to put it in the bank and earn interest for the time being. That sounds like a good plan to me.

soozievt · October 17, 2007, 11:35am

Garland…I also feel my kids can come home any time they want to or need to. I just don’t think they will be. But they can. I’ve never even discussed it with them. They KNOW they can come home. We’d never ever say no. I just know them and my GUESS is that they won’t be living at home. When I said that’s what I expect, I didn’t mean I told them I expect them to do that, but I meant that is what I PREDICT will likely happen. They were never told that we expect them to do this or that. I just think this is what is gonna happen. It’s more of a prediction than a standard they have to meet. I realize that “expect” could be interpretted other ways. For us, if they need or want to live at home, they can. Based on my observations in how they don’t even opt to do that for summers, and just knowing what they’ve got planned, I have a feeling that they won’t be living at home. But the door is always open. I don’t feel that they need to live at home and accrue all sorts of money to then live independently. I think they should be able to live independently and not HAVE to live at home. But whatever will be will be. I cannot imagine ever telling them that they can’t come home. I just don’t predict that they will WANT to live at home again. I never did at their age and so that’s what I am observing as well with my own kids. But time will tell. :D

soozievt · October 17, 2007, 11:37am

fendergirl…I totally realize they won’t be able to afford to buy a home. I’m just saying that you can launch from the nest and don’t have to wait until you can afford a home and all that good stuff. I was married 8 years before I owned a home and I still could not afford the down payment. We did get help with that.

somemom · October 17, 2007, 3:38pm

I don’t anticipate my kids finding living at home to be an attractive option; however the oldest did move home between grad school and undergrad. She had been 25+ hours away for four years, it was a delight (well, most of the time;)) to have her around, to reconnect with her, for her sister to reconnect, etc. D’s grad school is not too far away, 45 minute drive, she could theoretically stay home and we made the offer to her that she might want to stay home for the first term and then evaluate her situation. She is paying for her own grad school and it is masters, not PhD, so even with TA/RA $ there will still be some loans and she’ll need an outside job to make ends meet.

D elected to move out to begin school near the campus, looks like the right choice, as it is ideal to be within walking distance of campus. It worked out well for her to regroup at home between UG & grad, and to save money for her new studies. I do not see any issue with kids moving home in that short transitional period between graduation and embarking on real life- a time to go through all their possessions, to reorganise their life mentally, etc. and then begin real life in a strong situation.

A family member has her 35 year old son living with her and that is just wrong- wrong for her, wrong for him, but he relocated in her town (his hometown) and has yet (3-4 years) to find full time work and has not moved out. She feels he is depressed and is afraid to push him out. Sad situation.

soozievt · October 17, 2007, 4:25pm

somemom…I agree…a college aged student coming home to live one year between college and grad school or maybe one year after college until they find a job in their field, is very understandable. An adult way past that stage in life still living at home…not great for any parties concerned, in my view.

somemom · October 17, 2007, 4:28pm

Hmm, we did have a couple in our circle who kept selling their house and moving in with mom & dad whilst buying a new home. It was a good psin, but really they were atrocious with money! They eventually went broke.

Mom, I'm home!

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