Mom of Child With Special Needs Says Airline 'Humiliated' Family

Parent Cafe
321

Sure, pg, I think the blogger might have been completely honest in his story. I am no defender of United, I loathe them and refuse to fly on them unless there is no other option. My company has a deal with United where we automatically get upgraded to first class, but I will fly two legs Alaska or Delta, coach, opposed to flying direct on United, first class. Definitely some flight attendants (and gate agents, and ticket agents) are on a power trip. Ugh, don’t even want to give them another chance.

In the captains defense, they are just trying to get the airplane out of the blocks so they can have an on time departure and for people not to miss their connections. It’s likely he didn’t have the time or the desire to hear the proof that the flight attendant was lying. He’s not going to spend twenty minutes interviewing the other passengers, determining if the flight attendant was lying. You have to back up your crew, and it’s more efficient to just get the guy on another flight. However, he could have listened to the blogger, considered it for a minute, and talked with the flight attendant, telling her that maybe we should not make such a big deal about it, the guy got the picture, and let’s just go with it. He is the pilot in command, and what he says, goes. He probably just didn’t care enough to delay for a minute or deal with the flight attendant.

322

The blogger said the “T” word & was observed taking photos in the bz class cabin (i.e. the cabin nearest the cockpit).

The captain has ultimate authority aboard a plane-- even has authority to throw the airline’s CEO off the plane (as happened to Juan Trippe when he was CEO of PanAm).

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I also agree with bluebayou, that perhaps the flight attendant was uncomfortable with him. They don’t kick people off randomly. I don’t know about worrying about the word, “terrorist”, but maybe she thought he was going to do a huge write up about everything that happened on the flight, was observing them the entire time, and that creeped her out. I think he would have been better off if instead of just smiling when she told him to put the camera away, and then showing off his status to her as a travel blogger, to just say, “sorry,” and put the camera away. End of story. We also don’t know how he spoke to her, if it was in a patronizing manner or what. I’m not defending kicking him off the airplane, but you’re better of just being docile and doing what they say. Cooperate and graduate.

324

The comment from the other passenger who interacted with that flight attendant is interesting. He hadn’t even taken any photos and she demanded that he prove that by showing her his camera. He complied. I guess they’re all afraid of being caught on youtube.

325

I would venture to guess that what sealed his fate was calling her over to him and then using the T word, instead of just letting it lie. I can see how a self-important 25-yr-old talking about terrorism and claiming to be a travel expert would make the FA on a long international flight to the Mid East uneasy.

On the other hand, as I described earlier, my relative was thrown off a United flight for making an innocuous request that they deal with a broken speaker, and apparently no one else in that section thought his demeanor or language was disruptive.

326

The photo story is 2 years old, but that same blogger has offered his take on the disabled child situation, here:
http://upgrd.com/matthew/united-humiliates-family-with-disabled-child-or-family-shamefully-tries-to-game-system.html

327

Well…the one good thing that comes out of this is that a lot of people are finding out that you should travel with a car seat approved by the FAA on flights and that 2+ year olds have to SIT in their own seats, not just buy one.

I can remember light years ago when the FAs gave you those extra little seat belts that snapped into an adult seat belt for infants and toddlers. You weren’t allowed to leave your baby in one of those little bassinet things for take off and landing, you weren’t allowed to hold them in your lap without a restraint, and you weren’t allowed to strap the seat belt over yourself and the child together. You didn’t buy one yourself. The FA gave you one.

Were those extra little seat belts actually more dangerous than just holding the child in your lap?

You never know who is telling the truth, but one person claiming to be a passenger on the same flight says that on exiting the plane the mother said to the FA “I hope you enjoy unemployment because I’m not going to rest until I get you fired.”

328

I didn’t read all the comments. But I find it telling that none of the other first class passengers moved to coach for this family for just the take off and landing. It seems to me we aren’t getting the whole story otherwise I have to believe someone would have done that especially that tv reporter that was also in first class.

329

@jonri, UA recommends a similar strap system on their web site:

From the interview, Elit said, “we never knew the rule. We had put her on our laps for the first 3+ years”. Ugh. Confusing comfort for safety and calling it “sticking up for your child’s needs”. At least they know now.

330

There was a picture of Ivy in a bike seat. Anybody with a link to that picture?

The money grubbing issue blew up so now we are on the entitlement issue.

I don 't know how we can say the mother thinks she is entitled when we don’t know her and don’t know what happened on fhe plane. Anybody know her? :slight_smile:

When I was told that xx did not have my documentation and then I got an angry attitude from the employee on top of that, I did not feel entitled. I was angry. I didn’t go to the press but I might some day. :wink:

I know who I can count on for support. :slight_smile:

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re #328: No, that wasn’t it. The child has to have his/her own seat for that to work. This seat belt slid onto an adult seat belt. The parent that clicked shut his/her seat belt and the child’s. Theory was that if your baby was strapped into your seat belt and you went flying your body weight would crush the infant. With this gizmo, your own body weight would be restrained by your own seat belt and wouldn’t crush the child. The child could not go flying out of your arms either since (s)he was belted in.

Re number 329: If you google Kirsch 71–at least right now–you’ll get her a link to her twitter page. Click on it and you get a “sorry page not found.” That page has a search box in it. Put in Kirsch71 --no space and you’ll get the twitter account. Has pictures of her in a bike seat, etc.

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For the record, I think that the idea that the parents were somehow trying to scam the airline for another business class seat are ridiculous. Their party had enough seats for everyone, including Ivy. They obviously new she couldn’t legally travel as a lap baby or they wouldn’t have gotten her a seat. No one cashes in thousands of miles to buy a seat that isn’t required. They were just counting on continuing to bend the rules.

It is very unclear from all of this exactly who was sitting where when it all began, and who was sitting where when the solution was found. Somewhere, there was an empty seat to start with. It would make sense that, if the parents expected to be able to get away with Ivy not sitting in a seat, that the group used all of the better seats and left the empty one in coach. The fact that it was Ivy’s “official” seat is pretty much irrelevant. It sounds as if the father ultimately went back to coach so that Ivy could be in a seat and be supported in his lap at the same time. Presumably, one of the other relatives moved up to take his seat.

According to the blogger, ground personnel came on board and berated the family in Spanish? Where did that come from? It wasn’t mentioned in any of the accounts I’ve seen.

I must say that the relative who volunteered to sit back in cattle class so that an 11-yr-old, who would fit much more comfortably back there than an adult and doesn’t need to be with Mommy, could sit up front was very generous.

333

I was on a flight once where this happened; the child was not (as far as I knew) special needs, but the issue was the same. The child appeared to be 5 or 6 years old, sitting in the mother’s lap. There was an empty seat right next to the mother (they were in the row right in front of me). Child appeared to be sound asleep. Flight attendant came and told the mother that the child needed to be in her own seat at least for takeoff and landing. Mother threw a huge fit for about 20 minutes stating that the (perfectly calm, apparently asleep) child was too afraid. Mom finally moved the child to her own seat who whined about it a little bit, but did not throw a tantrum or cry. Oye.

Obviously none of us really know what happened, and I’m sure travelling with that large of a group–including a special-needs child–is daunting, but I agree that the whole story isn’t coming out and that it does seem to be an issue of entitlement.

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That stinks about your situation, dstark. And it might be something worth going to the press about, if you think it could help.

You (and others) might wonder why so many people have a harsh reaction to this story. It is odd to get so many people on cc unified, and I can’t think of any other thread where so many people have agreed with each other. And this is just based upon hearing the mother’s side of the story only, who naturally will portray herself in the best light. Yet still, little sympathy for her. Why do you think that is?

My guess is that anyone who has flown, and particularly those who fly often, understand the special type of torture that awaits the airline passenger. Sometimes I watch the loading process, and I marvel that in such a short time, so many different people are going to get settled in, and ready to go. People of all ages, sizes, carrying all sorts of oddly shaped packages and bags. People who have had traumatic events, people who are going to funerals, events that could be sad and unpleasant. People who are fearful, in pain, stressed out, ill, worried, distressed, miserable and feeling nauseous from chemotherapy. People who have lost children, spouses, parents, siblings. So many people, so many different experiences and worries, and they generally manage to get it all together and squeeze inside a small metal tube of misery.

When someone puts their personal pride or situation above everyone else’s concerns and plans, it makes people angry. Everyone else is doing what it takes to follow the rules, juggling their own pain, fear and discomfort to be part of the pack and not hold anyone else up.

This mother does not make an adequate case that there’s only one way the child can travel. Her case is merely that they’ve always gotten away with it before. And that is why I think there is very little sympathy.

335

Incredibly spot-on post, busdriver.

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What gets lost in the parent cafe too often, in my opinion, is that there are real live people sitting behind their computers or holding their phones or other electronic devices, and some are here to chat and be with friends more than debate. While one is looking for a win, an outlet, or intellectual stimulation, another would like to kibbitz and laugh a little, maybe find support.

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"It is very unclear from all of this exactly who was sitting where when it all began, and who was sitting where when the solution was found. Somewhere, there was an empty seat to start with. It would make sense that, if the parents expected to be able to get away with Ivy not sitting in a seat, that the group used all of the better seats and left the empty one in coach. The fact that it was Ivy’s “official” seat is pretty much irrelevant. "

Right. Initially, it appeared as though the empty seat was back in coach. From the one blog I saw, it suggested that the extended family members filled all 4 seats in coach so that the family could all be together in premium, but you’re right, if you truly thought that the daughter was just going to be on the lap, you might as well “fill” all the premiums and leave an empty seat back in coach.

“According to the blogger, ground personnel came on board and berated the family in Spanish? Where did that come from? It wasn’t mentioned in any of the accounts I’ve seen.”

Supposedly baggage handlers came on board. In circumstances where someone has needed to be physically moved (such as a disabled adult who can’t transfer from a wheelchair to a seat), would they really call baggage handlers, or would they call the gate personnel who typically handle disabled passenger transfers? I don’t know.

“I must say that the relative who volunteered to sit back in cattle class so that an 11-yr-old, who would fit much more comfortably back there than an adult and doesn’t need to be with Mommy, could sit up front was very generous.”

I could see thinking - they’ve got their hands full enough, I’ll just hang out back here in coach. You don’t know if the child needs more “entertaining” during the flight than a non-disabled child would need.

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“I don 't know how we can say the mother thinks she is entitled when we don’t know her and don’t know what happened on fhe plane. Anybody know her?”

Let’s say it were a non-disabled 3 yo girl. Mom wants to hold her on her lap, explains that it’s more comfortable for the child and anyway, she’s been doing it for a few flights now. How sympathetic are you? You would expect the mother to have known that an above-2-yo needs her own chair. I don’t imagine there would be much sympathy.

339

I think I can link the photo. She is in a bike seat, but with a 5-point harness that is typical of a car seat and it looks like some towels wrapped around the top straps for neck support. A lap belt alone wouldn’t work for her but this arrangement looks fine.

@dstark
https://twitter.com/search?q=kirsch71&mode=photos

Ahhhhh, I tried. Anyway, this is what came up when I got to her old Twitter account and clicked on “photos”. You see the ugly threats she made to the flight attendant, but if you scroll down you will find the family biking photo and you can click on it to enlarge the image.

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Pizzagirl, I answered those questions yesterday. . I know some people read my answers. :slight_smile:

The daughter is disabled by the way.

You didn’t answer my question. Anybody know her?

These posts have very little to do with this family or United Airlines. These posts are just little windows into our minds.