Busdriver11, that is too much information. 
I used to do that. All the time. Everything is uncertain to first time parents.
This thread has just hit rock-bottom. 
Aren’t you glad it did? How much more can you talk about this issue?
There were times the doctors had to peel a child out of my vise grip for an examination. I slept in hospital beds with them to comfort them. (and it wasn’t really allowed) So I can imagine not being able to let go of your child even though it is irrational. Even if it is necessary. And I did sometimes lash out when people insisted I let go. Even though it was in my child’s best interest.
“Busdriver11, that is too much information”
“This thread has just hit rock-bottom”
It’s really only about a pound or two, I think. But it’s purely because of chocolate.
And I agree, how much more can we talk about this issue? Especially since it’s pretty much all based upon one person’s side. No doubt the flight attendants are banned from talking about it.
But it is great that this issue has brought up so much safety awareness. Funny that the mom thought it was going to be a vindictive way to get back at United and the FA, and it backfired to what is a more appropriate goal than revenge—safety for little kids. Almost makes me want to fly United again. Almost.
I’m waiting for Ms. Kirschenbaum to be offered a role on the Real Housewives of NJ. They need a new cast member.
Another story about having things confiscated: On our recent trip back from China, we bought some soft drinks in the secure area to take on the plane. The store was about 50 feet from our gate. We went to board and there was another security inspection. All of our just purchased soft drinks- gone! But we didn’t argue with the Chinese version of the TSA!
Marie1234, I think you are going to get a phone call.
^ Thanks for that laugh 
might have just made my day
Oh marie, that was bad! But since I laughed so hard I am bad too.
It is very common at overseas big int’l airports w flights headed to all corners of the world, to have an additional security screening station at EACH departure gate. Different destination countries have different security screening requirements.
Singapore Airport (my favorite) doesn’t even screen departing passengers as they go past immigration into the duty-free area. They have a dedicated security station at every single departure gate in that massive airport complex.
Oh Marie, too funny. I was thinking that same thing last night…but just to afraid to post it.
There should not be that exemption for children under age 2, that they can sit unsecured on a lap. It’s dangerous not only for the parent but for other passengers if that child should go flying loose. All baggage and items have to be secured, but not a child due to age? Also some babies are pretty danged big and heavy (like my oldest was) so that one would think size and weight would be more of a factor than age if the sheer weight of something is what makes it more dangerous as a projectile.
The only reasons airlines permit this exception to being secured is their fear of loss of revenue from families with small children flying, pressure to lower the price of seats for little ones if seats are required, the small rate of consequences and direct repercussions to the airlines of not making this requirement,and plain old tradition and the unwillingness to change a reg that has been in place.
“Singapore Airport (my favorite) doesn’t even screen departing passengers as they go past immigration into the duty-free area. They have a dedicated security station at every single departure gate in that massive airport complex.”
I haven’t been there (well, I was in Singapore 30 years ago, but don’t remember the airport). In general, I find the layout of foreign airports to make a lot more sense than the layout of US airports. I like when there is one big hall where everyone goes to check in and the check-in desks run perpendicular to the sidewalk versus the separate-terminal approach of a lot of US airports where the check-in desks run parallel to the sidewalk. I don’t know what’s really best from either a design or efficiency standpoint, but I feel like I encounter the “same” airport all over Asia and it’s actually quite easy, whereas I have to re-learn different layouts in every US airport.
We have purchased a seat for our young kids when they were under 2 (because they preferred their own seat) and schlepped the car seat with us, only to find out the car seat was way too big to fit in the small airline seat and had to be gate checked anyway with the kids sitting in their own airline seat with the seatbelt. I don’t believe many of the current airline seats can accommodate the larger carseats which are commonly purchased, especially for very small infants. Heck, many of the airline seats do not properly accommodate the shoulders of adult passengers and have them twisting their bodies to fit in their seats!
One of my relatives had their youngest travel as a lapchild long after the child was > 2 years old, without purchasing a seat for her. The child hated it but didn’t make a fuss because it saved so much money. (This was before 9/11, when things were more lenient.)
Our kids were so happy when they were able to have their own seats, so they had more space in the plane.
I haven’t seen anywhere that IVY was sitting in her own seat. I have read that Ivy was lying in two seats. One was her father’s seat.
Where is it said that the pilot’s solution was for Ivy to sit in her own seat? That contradicts many links.
It looks like the information stream is over. If new information comes up, I would love to read that information.
Several sources said that she sat in her own seat, belted in, and then lay her head down across her father’s lap (since, obviously, she can’t sit fully upright without support). For that to happen, they would have had to have moved to economy where the armrest can be raised. What is being described simply couldn’t happen in most premium cabins, where the armrests are immovable.
This is a link to the mom’s first tweet about this. http://kirsch71.■■■■■■■■■■/post/106722269648/united-with-ivy When I reread it, my sympathy for the FA grew. Mom said the FA asked if the child had a boarding pass and demanded to see it. Mom doesn’t say what the boarding pass said, but it’s pretty self evident that it said “economy” on it and there was no empty seat next to mom for Ivy. That’s why United thought the family had bought first class tickets for themselves and economy for the child. * No matter how you slice and dice it, if you include Ivy, the family had one more person in first class than they had first class boarding passes. *
Next the pilot came up with a “resolution.” The family praises him. But Ms. K tells a somewhat different story about what that resolution was in the original tweet than she does in the CBS interview. The pilot’s “solution” in the tweet is what the FA asked Ms. K to do in the first place–put her in a separate seat next to a parent and strap her in for take off and landing. Okay the FA called it “sitting,” according to mom.She didn’t “sit” but she was in her own seat, secured by a seat belt for take off and landing, but with her head propped on her father’s lap because she can’t sit up. But if you listen to the CBS interview, it sounds as if Ivy was lying across the seats of her dad and her relative and strapped into their seats with them–which is dangerous and illegal. *As far as I can figure out, the only thing different about the pilot’s resolution is that he let Ivy be belted into a first class seat that happened to be empty. * So dad’s remark in the CBS interview about this being no different than sitting on mom’s lap is more than a bit ingenous. More importantly, there is NO indication here that when the uproar started the FA KNEW that the H was the child’s father and he had an empty seat next to him.
I personally don’t believe the claim about the language in the handbook allowing an exception for disabled kids. Even if the handbook and the actual reg differ, the reg wins, but no US airline is going to have a policy that violates FAA regulations.
I’m almost starting to feel bad for the mom though because the backlash on this is getting ugly. Unlike dstark, I don’t think the mom has voluntarily “moved on.” I think she just realizes that the more she carries on about what happened, the greater the backlash is. As noted above, a local news medium in NJ–where they live–conducted a poll and the results are above 80% in favor of United. People were posting some really, really ugly things on her twitter and facebook accounts; I suspect that’s why they took them down. There are also really ugly comments posted on various on-line articles about this.
One of them was a message from a man who said since they wanted to hurt the FA financially, the family should be punished finacially. He’s posted the name of the father in law’s company-- Ivy’s father works for it–and suggested that people boycott it. She and her husband wanted to get someone fired for doing her job, he says, so how about the rest of us stop doing business with their company so they can suffer like they wanted the FA to suffer.
Among other problems with this approach is the fact that the company has employees who will suffer if such a boycott was effective. I don’t see why they should suffer because the owner’s daughter in law did something people think was unfair. But I suspect that when it got to that point, husband and father in law felt some cold icy fear.
Yeah, I got too interested in the story, but I did for two reasons. First, it seems almost every article has somewhat different “facts” and at first I was just trying to figure out what happened. Second, it’s a really interesting example of how using social media to gain sympathy for a position may not get the reaction ( wanted and may result in backlash. IMO, a lot of the backlash started because of the mom’s own tweet about telling the FA she wouldn’t rest until the FA was fired and some of it is because the mom definitely changed her story a bit along the way.
Finally, ALL car seats being sold today are LABELED to indicate whether they are approved only for use in a car or can be used in an airliner as well. There’s no danger of taking along a car seat approved for use on a plane and finding it doesn’t fit.
,
That looks like lying. Yep. Just tried it.