Frazzled2thecore, that is a wonderful post.
Jym, thanks for acknowledging my concern. I am giving people credit. It’s human to feel and sometimes people won’t know what to do with feelings, no matter how smart they are. Departing from the discussion. Best to all.
There has been more activism in the disability world these days, as many are insisting that their rights be honored. They often are not. We see this in NYC with the taxis that can accommodate a wheelchair for example, and other such things that make things more accessible. as manadated by law. The airlines have been a subject of much criticism by disability activists. Traveling by plane has a lot of additional inconveniences and humilations and problems includings some outright violations of the law when one is disabled.
I think that the mom (and this is just my opinion) was using that fact that her child was disabled as part of her diatribe to add some more punch to her arguments. Though in this case, I do side with the airline, I reserve judgement as to how polite or nasty the FA was , and whether any ridiculous or insulting things were said and suggested on part of the airline in the scene.
There have been cases where some disabled children and adults have not been allowed on a plane due to behavioral issues that made someone in the crew uncomfortable about having them on board. They’ve made the news. Apparently if crew and cpt concur that they are uncomfortable having a passenger on board, that’s all that is needed to get you thrown off the plane. Ivy’s family are lucky that the pilot didn’t come to the conclusion that there was no safe way to permit the child to fly and ask the parent and child to get off the plane That could have happened, and the airline would still be in the right since sitting on the lap is directly against regs, and the parent is insisting that the child in her own seat is not a good option either.
“The girl in question was 3, and the local newspaper said in the mother’s party there were five total people, including both parents, the girl, and two others. And the girl was the only one with an economy seat, the rest had first class seats. And the mother took the girl into first class where she did not have a seat. I don’t know if different media outlets are reporting different numbers/circumstances.”
The report that I saw said very specifically that there were 16 family members with 12 premium and 4 coach. 4 of the children (including Ivy) happened to have been assigned the coach seats, but that means nothing, and some of the other relatives took the coach seats so that this particular family - which is SIX people, not five (both parents and 4 children including Ivy) could all be together in premium.
Based on jonri’s estimation, It’s not that the mother “took her into first class where she didn’t have a seat.” It’s that, gee, here are 12 premium seats for our family’s use, and Ivy is going to sit on mom’s lap so her seat is unused, so 13 of us will sit in premium. There WAS a seat for Ivy; the family had 16 seats for 16 people. It’s just that they filled it with someone pulled up from coach.
So then what happened, there were no empty seats to be seen in premium, the FA says - where is her boarding pass - they hand it over, and voila, it’s in coach. If the FA didn’t realize that there were other family members traveling and this was just a redistribution of their seats, it could LOOK like “these arrogant parents bought a seat for her all by her lonesome in coach” but that doesn’t actually appear to be the case. It distracted a lot of people, however, who seem to think that a) people who travel in premium deserve comeuppance and b) aren’t traveled enough to know that the specific seat assignment on a specific ticket doesn’t matter if you’re part of a party.
I mean, for goodness sake, I travel all the time with my business partner; we buy an aisle and window in business class (2 across) and whoever gets to the darn row first goes into the window. No one remotely cares which seat we were “technically” assigned.
Can’t find the earlier posts about the attitude of some FA’s but wanted to share a follow-up about the one I mentioned previously who bragged about getting free international first class seats when she traveled non-res. I Turns out a friend who I met with yesterday lives in that FA’s neighborhood and the FA asked for a ride to the event we all attended. Apparently my friend was also told about the free seats and also about the FA’s back problems. My friend asked her “well, if you have such back issues, how do you lift bags and such or rearrange luggage overhead compartments?” The FA said (I kid you not) “well I just pick out some strapping, able bodied passenger and get him to do it for me”. Say whaa??? That cant be within regulations, can it busdriver? What if she asked some guy to move something and he dropped it and it broke, or someting fell on a passengers head because of something he did at the FA’s behest? Or what if he got hurt? If she can’t do her job, she shouldn’t be flying, and shouldn’t be stealing (IMO) free tix from her employer and possibly potentially from a paying customer who should have or could have been upgraded.
Oh, and the event we were all attending was a family gathering after a funeral. Not only did she ask ny friend for a ride, she asked her to stop and do an errqand for her. My friend said they’d be late for the gathering, so this FA pushed them to run the errand for them after the family gathering. And took her sweet time while my friend’s H sat inthe car waiting for them. She is apparently quite adept at getting other people to do things for her.
BTW, it’s non-rev, (as in reVenue).
Non-rev pax are on the VERY BOTTOM of the priority list. Once all the revenue passengers are seated and upgraded, then if there is any availability left on the plane, airline staff get a chance at a seat. No airline is going to pass up an opportunity to take care of a PAYING pax to give a FA a “free tix”.
A few cellists I know buy an extra ticket for their cello. There are too many horror stories not to. A cellist friend of mine traveled to Brazil with his cello for a concert. For some reason he couldn’t buy a seat for his cello and checked his precious italian cello in a sturdy case. It didn’t help. I saw his cello at a repair shop after he returned. I would never check an instrument.
My Dad worked for two different airlines as a flight instructor. Flight benefits are simply that, ways to reward your employees for their hard work and loyalty. Many companies give their employees perks of some kind, whether it is a good percentage off of merchandise, or letting your parents jump the line for a table at a restaurant you work at, or what have you. I know I got non rev passes for awhile, until I was out of college.
My Dad occasionally got upgraded to first class, and I have no clue exactly how that happens. But more often, he would sit in the jump seat or back in coach. Always the last to board, never for sure he’d get a seat. Sometimes once seated, and right before the plane pulled away from the gate, he’d hear his name called over head to come forward, which meant a paying customer had shown up last minute. It’s not always such a great deal and there were times where he would go ahead and just buy his ticket for the peace of mind if he really needed to be somewhere at a certain time.
HOWEVER, it was always preached to him and to us when using the passes that a)you were NEVER supposed to mention you were flying free to anyone but the FAs, much less “brag” about it to another passenger, b)you were expected to be very well dressed, and c)your behavior was to be EXEMPLARY. Failure to adhere to those rules could result in losing those benefits permanently.
That’s the thing. Apparently, the dad had an empty seat next to him. Why didn’t he took the kid on early on instead of holding up the flight over an hour disrupting everybody’s plan? I am not saying this because I think everyone else’s plan is more important than a disabled kid’s need. Why be so contentious when there’s a simple solution?
The whole issue was that the mom thought that the FA’s objection was ridiculous and felt that what was said and done was humiliating. Lot s of such incidents, but she went on social media and made it a big deal all over, like on this board.
Why do i get the feeling this is one very hen-pecked man…
GMTplus7,
This veteran international FA is apparently quite adept at getting herself bumped from a coach non rev or business to business and/or first. She proudly bragged about it to my DH and this friend. Or, she is grossly exaggerating/lying through her teeth. A distinct possibility. Her goal is to visit 200 countries.
First of all, that’s just poor form from a general perspective. Secondly, I strongly suspect it is against the rules of her airline to EVER do that. She’s not even supposed to reveal that she is flying non rev, much less make a big show of getting first class. At least those are rules which the airlines my Dad worked for had with regard to free travel for employees.
She is in interesting character, to say the least, and poor form is an apt description. I doubt she’d be dumb enough to brag about it on the plane(s). This was at another event.
@jym, as i understand it, airline non-rev priority is based on seniority. So if this FA is very senior in her company (i would assume so if she regularly works an intl route, because routes are awarded on the basis of seniority) then she gets dibs on an empty seat above a more junior employee.
Airlines are businesses. And as u can see from United’s rapid capitulation to this woman by apologizing to her, airlines are keen maintain their reputation and their customers. They certainly are not going to bump a paying passenger to give a freebee to an off duty employee. Yes, i believe this boastful FA gets free rides, but the rides are leftovers. And as @nrdsb4 mentions, airline employees are not to discuss their non-rev privileges.
Understood. It was just a bit surprising (she tld this to my H, and to my friend I am getting is second hand) that she ONLY flies first class when travelling for pleasure and NEVER pays to sit in first class. I’d think a paying passenger would have priority for an upgrade, but what do I know. She isnt supposed to talke about it. That didn’t seem to stop her.
On a flight back from Germany last year I happened to have a first class seat in one of those nifty lay down bed type things. The flight was very delayed as the captain chose to have us de-iced and we sat for a long time. They FAs kept coming to the woman in front of me and whispering to her. Turns out it was the captains wife.
I’d assume that a very knowledgeable flyer might also be able to figure out which routes and times tend to be undersold. There very often are empty seats in first or business class because no one wants to pay for them. So the FA with the poor social skills could be opting to travel to less-popular destinations or airports at off-peak times – and double checking the seating status before arriving at the airport.
I used to do check seating charts like that when airlines were a little more liberal about flight changes. That is, it used to be that if there were several planes during a day, the airlines would let you board an earlier flight to the same destination as a standby passenger without any sort of charge if there was room on that flight. I seem to recall my daughter doing that once when she was flying alone, at about age 12 – and getting a free bump to first class as well - I think on Southwest. I can remember specifically booking late afternoon flights on Virgin with the intent to get on earlier flights if available – and I’d check seating charts at the time of booking or even call the airlines to check before headed off to catch the earlier flight. That was essentially a way to add more flexibility to the travel day, and sometimes to save money because of disparities in ticket pricing
However, now all the airlines charge hefty change fees for that sort of stuff, so can’t do it any more – but I’d certainly assume that a savvy FA with a pass might do that sort of advance planning and checking to get what she wants.
I am sure she is a seasoned pro at checking the flight schedules, but the other issue is her goal is to hit 200+ countries, so she isnt looking for returns to the same place.
Okay, I do not understand the problem with this flight attendants recreational goal. Lots of people do this job because they enjoy the travel perks.
On the tweets I saw that she made, she said “don’t eff with me.” I think it may be that this woman thinks no one should try to make her do something she doesn’t want to do. Perhaps she usually gets her way through either diligence, a persuasive personality, or bullying. She came up against someone for whom her usual techniques didn’t work, and then it was war. I think it’s possible that this had less to do with her daughter’s condition, and more with being challenged. I would also agree that her husband may be the passive one in the relationship, so she may be used to ruling her world and woe be it to anyone who shuts her down.
All speculation, of course.