And the independent National Traffic Safety Board (NTSB) disagrees with you, dstark. While the FAA does allow children in laps – due to political pressure and economic pressure from the airlines – NTSB still says that a safety seat-belt is safer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/travel/28pracsafetyseats.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Regardless, the lap rule/regulation is 2 years-old, i.e., 24 months. The FAA does not allow for weight/size allowances.
I understand both sides of this issue. The seat in the back was never intended to be used by anybody. The seat was bought to play the game of everybody having their own seats. The family should have told the airline.
But… This kid is severly disabled. This kid can not protect herself. Her body doesn’t work well. She can’t sit. Sometimes you have to think outside the box.
The pilot had to come up a solution. I am not clear on the solution. The daughter either lied down on an empty seat or lied down on the dad’s lap.
uh, no.
The dad or mom or the 11 year old could sit in coach. Problem solved and the plane leaves on time. No one inconvenienced. Win-win.
But surely they have come up with temporary solutions in the past to provide temporary support (pillows, coats, etc) just long enough to meet FAA requirements or such. So dad could have sat in the back and she could have been supported by mom. Or, since most first class seats dont have moveable armrests, might they not have been able to manage the situation more successfully in coach, where the armrests can be raised? And since seats are less expensive they could have purchased an extra seat if need be (if they were in a row of 3 rather than a row of 2) to be comfortable. Just a thought… outside the box.
cross posted with bluebayou
Dstark, the FAA is crystal clear that everyone over 2 needs his or her own seat. It is also crystal clear on UA’s website. The FA was just enforcing that and frankly shame on the 3 FAs who weren’t.
Do you think safety rules should just be bent when people have rough lives? So, for example, if this family is driving and gets pulled over, should the cop look the other way if the girl is not in an appropriate car seat?
Turbulence is a real danger. And it doesn’t care about disability status.
"The parents are saying their three year old should not be treated like a three year old or even a two year old because their daughter 's body functions at less than a two year old level. And if you are under two you can sit on your parents’s laps .
I agree with this"
There are 8 yo’s who have the physical and mental status of a 2 yo but we don’t argue they should be allowed to be held on laps. The FAA reg is by age. The parents may not like it, but they don’t get to demand an airline violate it because they don’t want to.
I do think rules should be bent depending on the situation.
Bluebayou is wrong. If tou don’t get it, you don’t get it .
I have to go.
“But… This kid is severly disabled. This kid can not protect herself. Her body doesn’t work well. She can’t sit. Sometimes you have to think outside the box”
This is not the first disabled person to have ever flown, you know. You call the airlines ahead of time and you set up special accommodations. You don’t just show up and play dumb, especially if you bought a seat which indicates that you know darn well the expectation is that the child has her own seat.
This is a well to do, traveled family. They aren’t bumbles who didn’t know any better. The child could be propped up in a restraint just like she is in a car and a family member could have gone back to the coach seat.
I, too, have no idea what they must go through. I do feel sorry for their circumstances. However, they clearly knew the airline rule requiring a seat for a child over 2. My question is why wouldn’t the parents have alerted the airline to their situation and asked for some guidance or help in advance of their trip? IMO that would be the logical thing to do.
Moreover, why did they buy one ticket in another section of the airplane? When you buy a ticket, you give the name of the passenger who is going to use the ticket–did they use the handicapped child’s name for the ticket in coach? Wouldn’t it have been easier to have an empty seat next to one of the parents so they could figure out a way to put a a seat belt on the child for take-off and landing? I’m sure it was embarrassing for the parents, but I bet it wouldn’t have been like this if they had tried to work something out ahead of time.
They weren’t playing by the rules when they bought the ticket in coach for the handicapped child. I’d have more sympathy for them asking the airline to bend the rules if they’d have been upfront about it. Also, if they wanted to keep the family together, then they should have purchased all of their tickets in business class/first class.
Sorry, dstark. I can see how the rules can be bent when it does not create safety issues for others or their child. I guess you have not experienced flying through severe turbulence to appreciate how important for everyone to be belted in and for stuff to be secured. I’m very sympathetic to people with kids with special needs, I’m just not sympathetic to people who disregard safety of their own child and try to game the system and then cry and whine about it.
(I flied with a lap baby once. That was enough.)
"The family scammed the airline?
The family bought a ticket that they did not need."
Wrong. They needed it, but they refused to move one of their party to coach so the disabled child could be in her own seat next to a parent in first class. They played the sympathy card to a) either get out of following FAA regs or b) hoping that they’d get an extra free first class.
“I do think rules should be bent depending on the situation.”
You also aren’t someone who flies, apparently.
I once boarded a flight absolutely hysterical and sobbing quietly because I had just found out a loved one committed suicide. Should the FA have said - oh, go ahead, I can see you’re upset, don’t bother buckling your seatbelt? No.
Ask Busdriver what she thinks about the importance of FAs enforcing safety regulations.
"Moreover, why did they buy one ticket in another section of the airplane? When you buy a ticket, you give the name of the passenger who is going to use the ticket–did they use the handicapped child’s name for the ticket in coach? "
They could have, but that’s irrelevant - if I board with my four family members, as long as we collectively use the seats we are assigned, they don’t much care that I was in 15A and now I’m sitting in 15B and my kid is in 15A.
The bigger thing is that they knew the child had to occupy her own seat, and yet none of them moved their butts back to the coach seat so the child could occupy a seat next to the parent. They had 16 family members on the flight. 16. None of them voluntarily moved to coach.
They probably would care in some situations – a child restraint seat should be installed in a window seat to avoid blocking anyone in during an evacuation, and exit row seats should only be occupied by those able to open the exit door and get out quickly.
Agreed that an adult or older child family member should have moved to the economy seat, and that they should have brought a child restraint seat (whatever that child uses in a car) in the first place.
True, ucb. I meant in general.
In a former life, I used to travel a lot, but always thought that I was ok as long as I hung on. Then I took one flight, in which we were all belted in, but the FA’s were starting to serve. Da’ plane hit an air pocket and dropped like a rock. The FA was standing right next to me; she “flew up” and I saw her head hit the top of the cabin fuselage. She was momentarily stunned, and dropped to the floor in a heap.
I ended up with bruises across the hips when my seat belt held me in. Other than those 15 minutes of turbulence, the flight was extremely smooth.
No way an Olympic weight lifter could hold onto a child in such circumstances.
I have no sympathy for someone who wants to use their <24 month old kid as a human projectile.
I assume they would use an additional belt to secure the 3 year old onto the parent’s lap. It is not a simple safety issue if the rule does not apply to a 23 month old.
If what the parents are saying is true…that they’ve flown several times with their D and no one has required to her to sit in a seat, then really THAT is the problem. When rules aren’t enforced with regularity, then people will think that they’re arbitrary or easily bent.