^^nope.
The FAA regs clearly say, one seat, one belt, one person for all of those over 2 years of age (“at least two years of age”).
14 CFR Part 125 Section 211.
^^nope.
The FAA regs clearly say, one seat, one belt, one person for all of those over 2 years of age (“at least two years of age”).
14 CFR Part 125 Section 211.
No one has mentioned it but you can get all sorts of special seat belts for children that work with airline seats. I would be surprised if one of these couldn’t have worked for this child. I hope the names of these people are noted in the airline computers so that this can’t be pulled again. I think if you can afford first class for most of your family, you should be able to buy the extra seat in first class too. Otherwise, one of you goes to the coach section and does the right thing. Many people have disabilities and people pulling stunts like this make it harder for them.
Back to this flight attendant. She bragged that she gets herself bumped to first class, for free, with her goal of traveling to 200 countries. She was quite proud of it. She did not pay for the upgrades. She claims that she has a bad back and thats why she gets bumped. Gee, her bad back doesn’t seem to keep her from sitting in the flight attendant jump seats when she is working those international flights. Of course, she could have been lying though her teeth. Who knows. Just relaying her story.
“Back to this flight attendant. She bragged that she gets herself bumped to first class, for free, with her goal of traveling to 200 countries. She was quite proud of it. She did not pay for the upgrades. She claims that she has a bad back and thats why she gets bumped. Gee, her bad back doesn’t seem to keep her from sitting in the flight attendant jump seats when she is working those international flights. Of course, she could have been lying though her teeth. Who knows. Just relaying her story.”
I wonder how much of it is true. As someone waiting to get upgraded, with a paid for ticket, I would be angry. I would think that would be against airline policy. However, at least on the airlines I fly, a passenger can’t get an upgrade to first class on an international flight without paying the difference, unless the back is oversold. So there can be more openings in first class than domestic flights, making me think that they might give the extra seats to employees. I never non rev, but I jumpseat every now and then. They generally put me in coach, sometimes stuck in the cockpit, and very rarely in first class (if all coach seats are full). It’s been a long time since anyone put me in first class to be merciful.
So these people had 16 family members on the flight? They couldn’t possibly have all been in first class, could they? And nobody stepped up to volunteer for the coach seat?
I know dstark said he had to go (probably because in unison people are disagreeing with him, which is unpleasant), but when he gets back, I have to ask him why he thinks it’s okay that nobody in the family was willing to go back and take the coach seat? I could never imagine delaying all those people because not a single family member would go sit in the purchased seat, no matter my circumstances.
I still think there has to be more to the story, because that’s just too selfish. There is always more to the story.
It’s hard to say without knowing the airline. Every airline has different rules, and international travel might be different. But if it was allowed for them to fly first for free, then I don’t know what her bad back would have to do with it. It’s possible she has friends who are breaking the rules to put her in first class. Not a huge deal if no one else is using the seat (which is how flight benefits work in the first place–employees take seats that would have gone empty to begin with), but would certainly be a big deal if they were taking the place over revenue passengers. I can’t see an employee ever putting her above a revenue passenger though–they would certainly lose their job. I know there are gate agents who aren’t above breaking the rules for their friends. I’ve been skipped on the standby list because someone was trying to get their friends on the plane, and only got on the flight when I asked for her name so I could report her (she went to tell her friends to get off the plane). The world is not without unscrupulous people, but one bad egg shouldn’t be representative of the entire industry. Just like this family should not be representative of all families with special needs children. I know many families who follow all the rules, plan as much in advance as they can, and still get the short end of the stick because there’s not always a lot of support for kids with special needs. They’re the ones who should be getting the attention, not this family who is trying to bend to rules to their will.
That being said, while she was being very rude about it, I don’t really see why flight benefits are a huge problem. Employees only take the seats that would have gone empty when the plane takes off. They never take the place of revenue passengers. And often, in my experience, if the flight is full or almost full, the people who are flying standby board last and check their bags if there’s not enough overhead space. The person you were listening to sounds like a jerk, but you have them in every area of life, unfortunately. Most employees I know are hush hush about flying standby because it’s not really something to brag about. I don’t this is really a problem with flight benefits in general, but rather, people who feel entitled to more than everyone else.
I read that the girl had a stroke while still in utero. A terrible situation but one that the parents have had to deal with her whole life. They should be experts at finding her accommodations that give her proper support! A parent’s arms are not that. Sigh, I’m having flashbacks to my FIL telling me to just take my baby out of her carseat to nurse her during a long trip. Bad idea.
Also a bad idea to have a lap baby during turbulence. Imagine the force of that child’s head hitting you in the chest. Your ribcage would probably lose. And your arms couldn’t hold the baby during any extreme movements either. There was a movie about this (I know, just a movie). I’m blanking on the name but I think it was by Peter Weir and starred Jeff Bridges and Rosie Perez. She feels guilty about her infant son dying during a plane crash. He tries to prove to her that it wasn’t her fault by having her hold onto a tool box while sitting in the back seat of his car while he drives into a brick wall. She can’t hold the tool box.
Lol!
It wasn 't about the empty seat.
There could be 50 empty seats. Doesn’t matter. The family doesn’t want their disabled daughter sitting in her own seat.
If you read the articles, and they are slanted towards the family, it looks like there was plenty of support by the passengers for the family.
I am visiting friends. Have to go.
Well, we don’t always get what we want and the safety of everyone comes first and that is why there are rules.
@dstark, if the family wanted to sit together, there was nothing stopping them from buying seats all in coach or all in 1st class. But they didn’t. They bought one seat in coach, expecting to manuever a free upgrade out of this.
Why emphasize the empty seat? It may be painful and traumatic for the severely disabled child to be placed in a seat alone (even ‘propped up’) as suggested above.
The empty seat was something the family purchased. If it was lonely or traumatic to be alone, why purchase it? Any other family member could have used that seat and given up the seat with the rest of the party. The family created the situation.
The family might have viewed purchasing the seat as necessary to get a boarding pass so the child could get on the plane.
I don’t think the family was necessarily trying to get a free seat – I think they had a poorly thought-out plan to just hold the child even though she is over 2 years old. If the child cannot sit in a regular seat at all, then the parents should have either brought a seat for her or cleared their plan to hold her with the airline ahead of time.
Really, I don’t mean sending the disabled toddler to be alone! I mean traumatic to sit out of the parent’s hold in a seat next to the parent. It is clear they bought the extra seat at the back as every PAX has to have a paid ticket.
Maybe the family created the situation, but thinking the child can just be stuck in a seat and told to get over it is not a very sympathetic point of view.
If it was a solution OF COURSE I think one of the family members would have occupied the economy seat, but it wasn’t a solution at all.
One of the adult or older child family members could have occupied the economy seat during takeoff and landing and whenever the seatbelt sign was on. The family need not have placed the special needs child in the economy seat, since it had adult and older child family members who could have sat there.
They did not want to place the child in ANY seat, that’s the point. They wanted the severely disabled child to be held during take-off, not sitting or ‘propped’ in any seat, first class or not.
The airline has a strong point with the rule as written - I don’t know if there is any possible medical override for such a case. The parents should have planned things better, sure, but they don’t sound like selfish monsters.
Sorghum gets it.
It’s already established that they weren’t trying to get a free SEAT. They were trying to get a free UPGRADE.
It’s tragic for the family that they have a disabled child, but that doesn’t obligate the airline to upgrade the whole family. Any other person in their party could have occupied the coach seat.
They didn’t need the coach seat for anyone, because they did not plan for the toddler to occupy ANY seat.
Yes, but they should have contacted the airlines about their issue ahead of time to clarify that what they were planning to do with the child would be OK. That would have avoided delaying and inconveniencing an entire planeload of people who had expected the flight to take off as planned, with each person following the airline regulations and rules.
I have special needs and ALWAYS contact the airlines as soon as I book my ticket to be sure everything will go as smoothly as possible. I also talk with the person at the ticket counter and also at the gate, and the flight crew as I board the plane. It is MY duty as a passenger to be sure that I line things up and make the flight go as smoothly for myself and fellow passengers as possible. It has worked well for the 6 years that I have been having to notify flight personnel. I fly about 30,000 or more miles a year, from 30 minute flights to 10.5 hour flights.
I think it is unreasonable for people who know they have special needs to expect flight personnel to make special exceptions at the last minute when they have not contacted the airlines and gotten things straightened out (to the best of their ability) ahead of time. Flight personnel have so much to do to ensure the safety of ALL the people on the flight and will work with folks who make prior arrangements.