Mood disorder and college

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I have typed this post many times. I will try to get it out there this time. My rising senior has a mood disorder. She is angry much of the time. She often seems like she is teetering on the edge. She flies off the handle screaming and crying, and sometimes breaking things, when she perceives that anyone at all might do better than her. We were just on vacation when she found out a classmate, who used to live in a foreign country, scored better than her on the foreign language AP exam. She came out bawling, to her great grandmother and uncle. And stating how terrible a student she is and every single other person that she knows got all 5’s on the AP exams. She was over the top. She was telling them that everyone was posting all about it on Facebook. AP scores came out a couple weeks ago. So I signed on to her page to see what she was crying about. I have a hard time believing that everyone else around her earned 5’s. But she swears that everyone else around her had about 700 in every single test, frequently up near 2400, on the SATs. Upon looking at her page, I found the one post from the one guy, who spends every single vacation doing mission work in a foreign country, and grew up part of his childhood overseas, got a 5 on the Spanish exam. I came back to her and confronted her about it, where she admitted that it was just him, and that she could not be happy for him because his success just shows her what a failure she is. She spent the rest of the day bawling and making a big issue of it and having to be sent off by herself to calm down, which took the rest of the evening. </p>

<p>That is just one example of many. Now in looking at colleges, she has concerns about every single one. Then tonight, she came to me crying, again stating “I will never be able to get in to a decent college” with all out bawling, as if she was just severely traumatized. She is at the border of the top 10% of a top ranked high school. She has about 2100 on the SATs and is on the border for NMSF. She also has excellent ECs and recommendations. I think her essay is original and great.</p>

<p>She has no clue what she wants to major in. Because of her anger problems and the delusional part of her, I cannot discuss anything with her. No one has been able to get anywhere with her. Oddly, she lies to everyone. It can just be about little things. For example, her GC asked her class if anyone had visited any colleges yet, and she said no even though she did. I asked her why she said no, and she says “I don’t know, I just froze.” How do you freeze on a question like that? I don’t know that she really “froze” as she has been caught in so many lies like this. Lies that don’t benefit her, but she tells them anyway. </p>

<p>She keeps telling us that she cannot wait to get to college because she hates all of us and cannot wait to get to college. I am very worried. Her main motivation for college is that she hates us? </p>

<p>I do not know what to do or where to go on this. Part of me thinks it might be best to have her go to a local college, which does not rank as high, so we can be here when she needs us. I truly think she is setting herself up for a big fall. I cannot see her handling dorm life. On the other hand, she makes it clear that she hates us all and she will be leaving one way or the other. Then on other days, she loves us. NO ONE would support me in saying she needs to stay home and take her time. And since she will have so many AP credits, community college is not an option. There are no tier 1 universities near us so she cannot live at home and go to a very competitive school. </p>

<p>The one major she says she is interested in is Japanese. She says she wants to move to Japan as soon as possible to get away from us. Other times, she says she loves us.</p>

2

<p>Has she had recent physical?
I agree it does sound like she may have a mood disorder, however physical causes should be ruled out.</p>

3

<p>Before you go any further I would strongly advise having her evaluated. I’m no doctor, but it really sounds like she may be suffering from some form of mental illness. It sounds to me like she may be bipolar, but only a doctor will be able to tell you. I really think that you should take her for a full psychiatric evaluation, and also explain your situation with the doctor. </p>

<p>Personally I think shipping her off is a bad idea. She may resent you for keeping her close by, but at the end of the day I believe it’s a safer idea.</p>

4

<p>I am in no way a qualified psychologist and I certainly don’t meant to diagnose your daughter which I obviously never could. That being said, the behavior you described and all of the thought processes I am very familiar with. </p>

<p>The intense emotions can just be rooted in tremendous insecurity in combination with a big temperament. If however you assume that they are pathological, I would like to drop the word Borderline personality disorder. This a a very serious diagnosis that one should never diagnose lightly, but I just want to throw it out there. A mood disorder patient typically exhibits extreme moods over longer periods of time and often not triggered through the external environment (when talking of bipolar 1, 2, cyclothymia, depression etc.). In those cases, emotions are not a reaction to something but rather the underlying motivator for many actions.
Also the way she seems to oscillate between absolute confidence and a lack thereof and also how she seems to longer somewhere between loving and hating you appears To be symptomatic. </p>

<p>As I stated already, I caution you to be Very careful though and always consult with a trained psychologist. My hint could stir you in the right direction, but statistically, chances are that it is totally irrelevant. </p>

<p>Whatever may be the case, I wish you the very best for you and your daughter!</p>

5

<p>I am so sorry you are going through this. It must be scary to see your beloved child go into these rages. I agree with the above posters who suggest having her diagnosed. A qualified psychologist would be a starting place. Psychological testing and medication may be needed.</p>

<p>I also support you in your instinct that maybe she won’t be emotionally ready to go away to school next year. It might be helpful to start mentioning in conversation that there are several indicators of a young adult’s readiness to go away to college. Academic progress is one, and the ability to manage emotions is another. You might point out that these rage episodes are indicators that she is not yet managing her emotions sufficiently to have success at college, and ask her if she is ready to work on this with the help of a therapist. You might also put your foot down and say that these episodes, and the lying, need to stop before you would be willing to fork over tuition. </p>

<p>You still have some control, as you hold the purse strings. Use that control while you can. </p>

<p>You say that community college is not an option. Maybe the conversation needs to revolve around the idea of her earning your trust/tuition by working for a year or two to show you that she can handle herself in a mature manner before you will be willing to pay for school. </p>

<p>We absolutely cannot diagnose on this forum, but you daughter’s symptoms did remind me of a thread from awhile back that may be helpful:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/546030-borderline-personality-disorder.html?highlight=borderline[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/546030-borderline-personality-disorder.html?highlight=borderline&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Good luck, OP. Let us know what happens.</p>

6

<p>Not to sure about a mood disorder, especially since it seems that she can function quite well except for in home tantrums. You should talk to a therapist, but I also believe that she’s not ready for the riggers of university. Hopefully it’s nothing more than a maturing process. Also, why does she get to yell at you and the grand parents? Start giving her the same rules of behavior that a university would require. GL</p>

7

<p>Your daughter needs an evaluation. This behavior is not normal for an child her age. We have a family friend whose son, actually your child’s age, had “tantrums” due to pretty significant anxiety issues. With medication and therapy, he is doing very well. </p>

<p>Your instinct about her not being ready for dorm life is probably on the money. You have to not just think of her, but of the other students. </p>

<p>The good news is that is is July so you have some time. Make the appointments immediately and get the ball rolling.</p>

8

<p>Very tough situation, eightisgreat.</p>

<p>Just wondering – how does she fare outside the home? Does she have friends and does she manage not to rage at them? Do you think the drama is just for mom? How does your husband view her behavior? </p>

<p>It sounds like she is caught up in control and gets angry (perhaps mostly at herself) when she can’t control the outcome or when the outcome is not what she wants.</p>

<p>I agree an evaluation is definitely in order (physical and psychological). I wonder if she’ll be open with a therapist or whether she’ll lie to them too.</p>

<p>The tough part will be making choices next year. She may very well get into a lot of top schools but I agree, unless she starts modifying her behavior and reaction to stress, she will probably bounce right out. It’s safe for her to unravel at home. Not so safe with a bunch of people she’s just met.</p>

9

<p>I agree with everyone esle - get her evaluated, and do it now! If she is that down on herself, it could be serious, but it may also be treatable. If treated now, you will have a better sense of what she can do a year from now. If treatment works, and she is cooperative, she may still be able to go away. </p>

<p>I have a child going through this, a couple of years younger. Treatment has made a huge difference. Not to scare you, but this type of behavior can lead to impulsive behaviors, including cutting, and even suicide attempts. Get her some help now, before it heads in that direction. It may take a few tries to find a therapist she will talk to, as it did with mine.</p>

10

<p>I am so sorry that your daughter is suffering and you are in the eye of the storm. It can be a helpless feeling. I would go as fast as possible to get a full medical evaluation including metabolic bloodwork, as well as a psychology evaluation from a reputable psychiatrist. </p>

<p>At this point I would not make any ultimatums that she must be willing to work on her behavior, go to a therapist, show improvement in control over her emotions, etc., before you’ll consider letting her go away to college. You have no idea what she’s dealing with so you have no idea what is and is not immediately in her control. Telling her she isn’t showing maturity for independent living will only serve to upset her right now IMO. Your primary goal should be diagnosis first. Then with the help of a medical team you can make a plan to begin treatment. This will include how to handle college. I don’t think anything can be decided until a diagnosis and treatment plan is in place. Chances are she should be closer to home, but approaching her without a diagnosis and treatment plan, where she sees no end in sight will seem like a punishment. The conversation can wait. </p>

<p>Best of luck to your DD and you as you navigate this time. Although she is lashing out you are her biggest advocate. No one else will fight for her the way you will. Early diagnosis and treatment is important to her long term health. </p>

<p>FWIW, I agree you might want to do some reading on Borderline Personality Disorder. As mentioned this is reactionary. People go in and out of favor. Relationships are hard to maintain. There is a distinct element of insecurity. With Bi Polar Disorder rapid cycling is less common and the highs (which can present as aggression and anger) and depressions usually last weeks not being reactionary to circumstances. It is not uncommon for either to ‘hold it together’ outside the house. So not having tantrums elsewhere is not a rule-out at all. The release when they are home, their ‘safe place’ is far more likely when they’re pretending they’re ‘okay or normal’ for the rest of the world all day and have emotions bottled up like a rattled soda.</p>

11

<p>One thing that might be helpful toward her getting an accurate diagnosis is for you to keep a record of these meltdowns and chart them along with what else is happening in her life.
It might be as simple as her hormones being out of wack, especially if normally she quit having tantrums when she was 5.</p>

12

<p>The whole evaluation process is very long. She was evaluated a few years ago through the Children’s hospital and was diagnosed “emerging mood disorder” and the term mood disorder NOS was put in there. </p>

<p>She has been on waiting lists for a while to get re-evaluated, which is what the original paperwork said to do after a period of time. Then we started getting calls she is aging-out of the children’s system. But, adult doctors would not take her yet. Then we lucked out. A place that takes children until they are a little older might be able to see her tomorrow (cancellation), pending her physical, which is today.</p>

13

<p>I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. I agree that she needs an evaluation ASAP. If she is still under 18 it will be much easier for you to get her the help she needs. Most rising seniors are stressed and insecure, but her behavior sounds extreme. </p>

<p>Once you get a handle on her issues, you can make a decision about college. You are smart to be concerned about sending her away from home. Student’s problems don’t miraculously go away when they leave for college. In fact, the stress of dorm life and a new environment can make them worse.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and your D.</p>

14

<p>I should add that she barely has friends. Her teachers have noticed her problems and worked to push the socialization issue. She is in the orchestra at school, so that is a small group that does a lot together. We started with her refusing to do anything. I found that she was sort of bullying the other kids. She would say the other kids are losers and refuse to speak to them, even when they spoke to her. Then she would come to us and tell us that they are the bad ones, not her. However, I had already gotten back feedback from multiple teachers that I trust that it really was her. The kids were trying to include her. I even observed and saw her completely snub a nice girl that was really trying to be nice. </p>

<p>But once I force the issue regarding the one girl, in other words, I told my daughter that she was the real bully here, not the victim. And chewed her out (I know, not the best way to put it) for how she was treating the girl and said I would not tolerate her bad mouthing that girl to me anymore, she came around and actually became friends and did some things outside of school with her. Then she said the girl was not so bad. I do not know why she treats everyone so poorly. </p>

<p>She sees college at this utopian place, where everyone is intellectual. She thinks she is going to sit around having deep intellectual conversations with highly moral people.</p>

15

<p>My daughter sounds exactly like the girl in the link/posts about the girl with borderline personality disorder. </p>

<p>My daughter also has a lot of trouble socializing. She hates everyone. She sees everyone as attacking her. But, pretty much, she is the one being mean to everyone else.</p>

16

<p>And as far as the Borderline personality goes, they view people in extreme terms, either all-good" or “all-bad”, and the same person labelled as “good” one day can be switched to the “bad” descriptor in nothing flat, and then back yet again depending on the circumstances. Also there is lots of insecurity and self-doubt, and whatever happens it’s always somebody else’s fault. </p>

<p>Then again, your D may have something else going on. </p>

<p>Practically speaking, I’d suggest a college closer to home rather than one too far afield. In the event that something unfortunate comes up you (or she) won’t have to deal with the added distance to travel on top of everything else.</p>

17

<p>That’s great news about having an appointment tomorrow. I have done a lot of reading about Borderline because I had a friend who displayed many of the symptoms. I did not know him when he was younger, but I do know he dropped out of college, never finished his degree and entered into a relationship with a married mentor in his 20’s. Not that any of those things are the end of the world, but I suspect diagnosis and treatment would have set him on a more stable path.</p>

<p>I hope you get some solid answers and a plan of action to help your DD move forward. Let us know what you find out.</p>

18

<p>I have nothing to offer but sympathy. I can only imagine how difficult this is for you. Good news regarding the appointment. Let us know what happens. I know there are other parents here who have children who suffer from mental illness who can offer you more meaningful support.</p>

19

<p>Glad to hear you have an appointment. If it doesn’t work out, you should still get her into counseling - her provider then might be in a better position to fast track an evaluation. If she’s having a hard time dealing with the end of Junior year, the application process could send her over the edge. She won’t talk to you, but that doesn’t mean she won’t talk to someone less involved, particularly if those discussions will be kept confidential.</p>

20

<p>If its possible I would suggest a longer-term evaluation for this girl, putting her into a facility where she can be ovbserved for more than a one or two hour meeting with a therapist. That might be for a few days, a week, or longer. Mental health professionals can often come to a surer diagnosis when they can observe the patient outside the home, sans parents, and have the time to break down the defenses a troubled kid can throw up. And getting an acurate diagnosis here is crucial. The sooner you know whether this is borderline, bipolar, schizophrenia, anxiety or just a scared teenager acting out, the sooner you can seek out an appropriate treatment. (This is assuming that there are no physical causes for her behavior.) </p>

<p>Put her health first and her education second. She can always graduate high school and go to college, but if something is seriously amiss, she’ll never finish either one. Better to attack it now before it gets worse and while she is under 18 and you have some control over her. </p>

<p>And please take care of yourself. This is a very stressful thing having a sick and out-of-control teen. You are of little help to your daughter or the rest of your family if you are tired, anxious, or in any way unable to function. Make sure you have the requisite sleep, exercise, food, psychological and spiritual support for what may be the beginning of a very long and difficult journey with your daughter. </p>

<p>Good luck to you and I hope things work out for you both.</p>