<p>I guess there’s no use in discussing this with someone who truly believes that Michelle Obama hates America.</p>
<p>A man who would cheat on his own family would have no problem cheating the public.</p>
<p>Nobody cares. I’m not saying that’s right or anything, just that nobody cares or is going to care. Short attention span. It’s not even on Fox News.</p>
<p>Quote: “A man who would cheat on his own family would have no problem cheating the public.”</p>
<p>I agree. And a woman who would lie, would potentially lie to the public about everything. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Yeah that crazy Reverend Wright.
RE: 9-11 (and those chicken’s coming home to roost)</p>
<p>“I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist, [but America’s] secular and anti-Christian environment left us open to our Lord’s [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and expels God from the culture … the result is not good.”</p>
<p>OH, i’m sorry that wasn’t Reverend Wright that was that bastion of open mindedness, the founder of the Moral Majority, Jerry Falwell.</p>
<p>Maybe we can also break out the tapes of Billy Graham and Richard Nixon blaming the Jews for everything.</p>
<p>You know I will give the good reverend wright a mulligan. </p>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>I never had to use a separate water fountain…
I never was red lined by insurance companies and banks…
I never was pulled over for being my skin color…
I never was required to sit at the back of the bus…
I never had to fear for my life just to go to school…
or to church…
or out to dinner…</p>
<p>while I admit I was called “honky” once in a basketball game…
the resulting offensive rebound and three point play against my name caller…
made that OK. So did the black man who came down and shook my hand at the end of the game and told me “great game son”. I realized not everybody looked at me for my skin color. </p>
<p>No one ever burned a cross in my yard or threw a brick through my window. </p>
<p>So if the good reverend feels the way he does, I will allow him to vent. You see, I can only imagine what his life has been like. I know it wasn’t like mine.</p>
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</p>
<p>I’ve yet to see any indication that Obama condones, or supports Pastor Wright’s incendiary words. In fact, he’s denounced them publicly. Perhaps you didn’t get the memo.</p>
<p>“I’ve yet to see any indication that Obama condones, or supports Pastor Wright’s incendiary words. In fact, he’s denounced them publicly. Perhaps you didn’t get the memo.”</p>
<p>Suppose the shoe were on the other foot - suppose a white Republican politician was a member of a country club for 20 years. Suppose this politician decided to run for President and that during the vetting process it was found out that the country club that he belonged to was ripe with incendiary anti-black views. Now, suppose that only after this was exposed, the politician said that while he found the attitudes of the club offensive he attributed it to “old school” thinking and therefore would not quit the club.</p>
<p>Does this make the politician a racist? Perhaps not. Does it raise serious questions about that politician’s ability to be a President for all colors? I would think it would. Would Jackson/Sharpton/the media and the Democratic party make a huge stink over it? I know so.</p>
<p>you can’t put the shoe on the other foot. You know it, I know it. Its a double standard in a way, but history and the status quo causes it to be that way. </p>
<p>In America, black people could NEVER oppress any other group of people, especially white people, because they don’t hold the majority of the power in society. It isn’t even possible for a president to come into power and start passing laws that discriminate against white people, they would be struck down in a heartbeat and they would be bad for the country. </p>
<p>Laws that discriminate against minorities are passed, though nowadays much more seldom but it still happens, and nothing can really be done to stop it, they are at the mercy of the majority to call them on it. </p>
<p>It is for that reason that the shoe can’t be put on the foot. A president in that hypothetical country club poses a legitimate threat to minorities in this country. Do you honestly think that if Obama became president he could lead to the oppression of white people? honestly?</p>
<p>Yeah, suppose a white republican president, like gee whiz, say Ronald Reagan, was a member of a de facto segregated/racist country club, like say hmmm, the Los Angeles Country Club, (where Ronnie was a member and the only people of color are either mowing the lawn or caddying). Give me a break. Should we even begin to talk about Nixon. </p>
<p>come on FF, get real.</p>
<p>Obama is being held to a different standard because he is a person of color and this country just ain’t ready for it and this Reverend Wright obsession is pure garbage.</p>
<p>He has gained at least as much from being African American as he has been hurt by it. Could a white politician with his views and speaking skills routinely take 80-90% of the black vote?</p>
<p>Yes, he has been held to a different standard. But whether it’s a harsher one or an easier one or a mix of both has yet to be determined.</p>
<p>Honestly, FF. We can agree on a lot of things, but I suspect that you and I are never going to even come close to seeing this Pastor Wright controversy in the same light.</p>
<p>Racism, at least as far as it relates to both my understanding of the dictionary definition, and my own very real experience with the phenomenon itself, is the belief that one race is inherently superior to another or others, and that people should be treated in accordance with that belief. </p>
<p>During his lifetime, Jeremiah Wright has seen, and undoubtedly, experienced a lot of white racism of the exclusive country club variety, which you referenced in your example, and many other types as well. He’s sometimes an angry and bitter man, who is not anti-white, but anti-white racism. He’s seen and experienced so much of it in his lifetime that it’s become the boogeyman for which he has learned to be constantly on the lookout. Obama understands this about his friend, and during his speech, noted:
</p>
<p>There is not one iota of evidence to suggest that Obama either agrees with, or condones Pastor Wright’s admittedly skewed view of current American race relations. There are instead, mountains of evidence that support the very opposite assumption. His background, his own racial and family composition, his writings and speeches, his relationships with friends and colleagues of every race and religion, support instead a view of the man as a racial and cultural bridge. Not even one person has been able to step forward and say or demonstrate in any manner that Barack Obama holds racist views, or would implement racist policy. The fact that so many doggedly insist on labeling him a racist, despite all evidence to the contrary, is instead indicative of their own very proscribed agenda, one for which the truth means very little. </p>
<p>BTW, The Trinity church of Christ is overwhelmingly black (as per its location), but it is not exclusively so. It does have white members, and most of them have seen fit to remain members for many years. I have also read accounts of whites who have visited TCC, who report that they were always warmly received by both Pastor Wright and the congregation as a whole. In this vain, I’ve never seen evidence that Wright, in even his most paranoid anti-government, anti-racism rants, call for either the overthrow of the US Government, or the oppression of white people. </p>
<p>Have you ever actually read the transcript of Obama’s speech concerning Pastor Wright, and race relations in America, FF? Or have you merely screened your response to it through the sieve of pundits with a political agenda, such as Sean Hannity and Bill O’Reilly? Understanding that, even in the absence of any sort of controversy, you wouldn’t be anymore inclined to vote for Obama than you would, say—Nancy Pelosi, what you make of Barack Obama’s membership in this church, or his friendship with Pastor Wright is perhaps neither here nor there. But strictly as an intellectual exercise, perhaps you might consider reexamining Obama’s speech of two weeks ago. I’d be more than willing to engage you in a conversation over its content.</p>
<p>Bullwinkle; if you check your history, you will see that the christian majority was outraged and openly scolded Falwell for those comments. Big difference here.</p>
<p>Barney; sorry, but I don’t believe Wright gets a Mulligan just because he’s black and grew up during racism and during the civil rights fight. On the contrary. He has been a pastor for 35 years. He’s been preaching; supposedly the word of Christ; since around 1973. Did he start preaching with racism in his heart because the civil rights movement was still fresh in his mind and soul? A christian leader should be held higher than that. The catholic church openly chastised and addressed their priest issues when they were brought in the open. If this was a friend, brother, relative of Obama’s, I could probably have more understanding. I can’t have such understanding for a christian leader. A man of god. If a person is going to say all those things because of the way he was treated as a black man, which is understandable, he has no business being a christian leader.</p>
<p>And as far as Obama goes, he has no excuse. He grew up mostly in Hawaii and Indonesia. A far cry from LA, Chicago, and New York during the height of racial tension. When he did move to New York, most of the movement had already happened. Obama was only 8 years old in 1969.</p>
<p>Sorry; Wright doesn’t get a pass. Especially when it looks like CBS, ABC, and NBC are talking about more stuff he has said about Israel and Arabs. I haven’t read it yet. I will tonight. Obama doesn’t get a pass because by listening to it for 20 years, he does condone it. To now say that if the reverend Wright hadn’t retired, he would have left the church is pure B.S. Others left his church, he could have also.</p>
<p>No, but when you stay with the minister that long, then you condone what he says and believes. It is up to Obama to now defend it and denounce him. Obama tried tip toeing through it the last couple of weeks doing what he did so many times in congress; VOTING PRESENT: instead of yea or nay. Well now, he is going to have to swing at the pitch. He isn’t going to be allowed to walk on this one any longer.</p>
<p>“Wright doesn’t get a pass”. Let me know when HE is running for president.</p>
<p>This entire attack and current guilt by association nonsense is nothing but racist paranoia.</p>
<p>I’ve read what Obama wrote in response to Reverend Wright. I’m satisfied that he addressed the remarks appropriately.</p>
<p>Don’t worry I’m sure Rev. Wright will be at Obama’s side to console him after McCain wins!</p>
<p>Hmm, so his daughters are in these same sermons? Does Obama go and tell them afterward what is true and what is true? Does he go and tell other kids what is true and what isn’t true? Kids are very impressionable.</p>
<p>I love the argument that these sermons are just isolated events. Wright has been doing stuff like this since the mid 80s with his visit to Gaddafi’s place in Libya. What a joke.</p>
<p>So Obama didn’t want Rev. Wright at his side when he announced his candidacy as he originally planned - because he “can get a little rough in the sermons” (Just read this in another thread) and yet now he claims he didn’t know Wright was this controversial… right. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>As I’ve said before:
- Either he knew & agreed;
- Or he knew & disgreed (but didn’t take any action);
- Or he didn’t know (in which case he’s an idiot).</p>
<p>None of the above scenarios reflect well on OBAMA’S judgement. We’re taking about Obama here & HIS actions (or lack of them) and HIS judgement in this situation. THAT’S why this is relevant - it’s about Obama, not Wright.</p>
<p>This thread got too long too quickly.</p>
<p>Anyways, Obama is not defending Rev. Wright. Obama is explaining where Rev. Wright is coming from.</p>
<p>Christcorp, really. Do you honestly believe that because Obama grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia, his knowledge of racism is somehow second hand, that he was never confronted with racism, and didn’t have to wrestle with his own racial identity? It is because of his unique upbringing that he is able to understand the various views on race and identity in America. He’s literally lived betwixt and between for his entire life. Just because you haven’t lived it doesn’t mean it has no validity.</p>
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</p>
<p>What? Was some magical switch thrown in 1968? Was the racial divide miraculously mended with the passing of the Civil Rights Act?</p>
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<p>What a simplistic way of thinking, CC. People are often extremely complicated(even black ones:rolleyes:), and full of contradictions. Few fit the one dimensional caricature into which you find it so convenient to pigeonhole Pastor Wright. People really can be both, very flawed and very virtuous at the same time. Haven’t you ever had a close relationship with someone whom you love, but with whom you also sometimes find yourself truly at odds? Perhaps he’s an uncle, or lifelong friend who holds some political or racial views with which you vehemently disagree. Perhaps he’s otherwise a wonderful person, a very kind soul, one who cries like a devastated child at veterans gatherings, or shows tremendous respect and tenderness toward your children, who’s generous to a fault, or has shown a willingness to walk through fire in the name of your friendship, and who, just when you thought you had him all figured out, said something so profoundly full of wisdom as to render you speechless. Few people are Simon Lagree, Christcorp. Most people have many redeeming characteristics along with their faults. It was Wright’s redeeming features that Obama chose to focus upon for all those years. And Obama has expressed as much in his speech. </p>
<p>In addition, Trinity Church of Christ is not Jeremiah Wright. The church itself is made up of literally thousands of people, and is focused on many good and legitimate works. When Obama placed his tithe in the offering basket, it was probably those many good works that he felt he was supporting. </p>
<p>But go ahead and be simplistic and judgmental, even as you self-righteously speak of Christ, who was anything but simplistic and judgmental.</p>
<p>What I find really really funny is the criticism tossed about… I mean c’mon be honest like you were going to vote for Obama anyway 
and this just really put you off…</p>
<p>Some folks are showing their true “colors” on this post. </p>
<p>“songs that made the hit parade… those were the days”…;)</p>