More gems from Rev. Wright

Parent Cafe
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<p>Poet; no, I’m not saying Obama didn’t have his racial struggles. He did; just like some minorities do today. But his struggles were not the ones that Wright and those in the 50’s and 60’s experienced. Like I mentioned; Obama was 8 years old in 1969.</p>

<p>As far as voting for Obama goes; I admit it is pretty unlikely. However, if you look at some of my posts prior to this who Wright issue, you will see that my only real complaint with Obama; which I had said I could possibly work through; was his total lack of any real leadership experience. This whole issue is just making the leadership issue more questionable. That’s what this is all about and that is the primary job of the president. Being a leader. Currently, I have a lot less respect for Obama’s leadership abilities. The fact that he votes present so many times speaks of his leadership ability. His position with Wright should be direct. He doesn’t need to beat around the push and make excuses for him. Take a position and stand by it.</p>

<p>I’ve had reservations about Obama mainly for his lack of leadership. This situation just illustrates that concern that much more. I’m not sure if he or Clinton will get the nomination. There’s already been talks in the DNC that if this goes to the convention because there isn’t a clear winner with enough delegates, that they might even consider a different democratic nominee all together. Some have even mentioned Al Gore. If this gets to the democratic convention, it could get very messy. If they chose Clinton, Obama supporters will feel cheated. They may boycott the vote. The same is felt about Obama being selected. Matter of fact; today’s poll shows almost 1/4 of Clinton supporters said that if Hillary loses and it’s between Obama and McCain, that they would vote for McCain. Another question showed approximately 17% of all Democrats believed that Obama SHARES WRIGHTS VIEWS on the government, whites, jews, etc… That doesn’t speak very highly if Obama gets nominated. </p>

<p>Neither Obama or Clinton can win against McCain if they don’t unite together behind whichever is selected, If a large amount are willing to cross party lines, then McCain will indeed win. So, the question becomes; should this go to the convention; would Obama supporters be more likely to Support Clinton if she is selected or would Clinton supporters be more likely to support Obama if he is selected? Or do they say to hell with both of them and bring in a 3rd candidate like Al Gore? Personally, I think a 3rd person would be the biggest mistake.</p>

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<p>bz2010: Are you serious? If Obama didn’t realize, he’s an idiot? Like… are you serious? You’re saying you have been to every sermon your pastor has given in the last decade and can tell me with 100% certainty that he’s never said anything bad or questionable? What a joke. I find it entirely believable that Obama may not have realized everything his pastor said years ago, especially since it took everyone else months to dig up.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t be surprised if Wright did stuff like this all the time. Only some of it was recorded. He has a history of doing stuff like this.</p>

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<p>Heard tonight that the sermon after which Obama’s book was titled, “The Audacity of Hope” even had some racial overtones in it.</p>

<p>1of42: “Are YOU like… serious” yourself to imply that Obama attended that church for TWENTY YEARS and NEVER heard any racial comments?</p>

<p>Right.</p>

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<p>So basically what you’re saying is in absence of any proof that Obama knew of the racial undertones of the sermons, he still did and that’s why you hate him? I call this blind partisanship - “I don’t like him, so I presume the worst when there’s doubt, and that makes me not like him.” Hmm…</p>

<p>(For the record, I don’t like Obama either, but you’re all making yourselves look like absolute fools barking up this tree.)</p>

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<p>It been pretty well acknowledged that Wright most definitely has some racial issues. It’s also pretty well accepted that he has many numerous mentions in church to the congregation. Are you really expecting us to believe that a member of the church; for 20 years; is totally ignorant of these facts? If he only went to church once every couple of months I could buy it. But he has said that he was a regular member. With all the sermons, church socials, brunches, picnics, and many other church get togethers, you’re telling me that it is totally feasible that Obama never hurd the reverend wright say racial comments? That Obama never heard a fellow church member mention it outside of the chapel?</p>

<p>There’s only 2 reasons that Obama could have for going 20 years and honestly can say that he never heard the minister say such things. Either A) He went to church and slept through it. B) He agrees with everything Reverend Wright says, and therefor never thought of it as racial, so he just moved on with his day to day life. Obviously, if you believe in the things Wright is saying then there is nothing to discuss.</p>

<p>Of course, there is the 3rd option. He did hear everything Reverend Wright said but doesn’t have the backbone to confront him and tell him that that would not be tolerated. Personally, that is what I think. That he has no inner strength. He heard the pastor on a number of occasions say things that he shouldn’t, but he didn’t want to hurt his feelings. Therefor he just overlooked it. After 20 years however of trust and respect, many of those words are going to become ingrain. It obviously was impressed enought to write about about it.</p>

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<p>There you go again, 1of42 - putting words in my mouth.</p>

<p>For the record, I don’t “hate” Obama, or any other person or thing. I try to refrain from using that word or registering those sentiments. There is too much “hate” in the world already and I’ve always taught my boys not to add to it.</p>

<p>All I’ve been saying is, logically, there are only 3 ways this could’ve played out: 1 Obama knew & agreed; 2. Obama knew & disagreed & didn’t act; or 3. Obama didn’t know. </p>

<p>I find #3 the least probable (looks like there IS proof that Obama knew - given that his book is titled after one of Wright’s sermons that does have racial references), but hey, if you want to believe that he went to the church for 20 yrs. & didn’t know what was going on, that’s your choice - sip away.</p>

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<p>Oh yeah, for sure—That there “Audacity of Hope” book is full of racial hatred and divisiveness. It fully reflects the teachings of the man who inspired it…:rolleyes:</p>

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<p>I think Obama should distance himself at this point to show that he does not believe in his ignorant remarks.</p>

<p>At the same time I don’t think Hillary is a saint either- she stayed with Bill after the whole scandal.</p>

<p>Politics suck. :|</p>

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<p>I’m sorry Christcorp, but I’ve yet to understand the point you’re trying to make. Has Obama ever come even close to suggesting that he experienced the kind of racism that Jeremiah Wright experienced? How is your above point supposed to support an indictment against Obama? Perhaps it’s because you yourself have yet to experience racism anywhere near that experienced by Obama himself (much less Jeremiah Wright), that you take such a blind and judgmental posture.</p>

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<p>I actually read the whole sermon, The Audacity of Hope. I’m agnostic and I’m not a minority nor am I poor. But I could imagine myself being incredibly inspired by such a sermon. In it, Wright talks about all the reasons why his parishioners (and remember, they live on the South Side of Chicago) might feel oppressed and despairing. But then, he goes on to discuss the vertical connections they have, to God, and the reasons why , in the face of seemingly insurmountable challenges, these vertical connections to God are the reason for them to possess the Audacity of Hope. It’s a dare to dream sermon. I am no expert on the Black Church or evangelicals, but I read that the structure of that sermon is very much in the prophetic tradition. Wright makes constant references to passages and figures in the Bible. </p>

<p>It is extremely effective and quite moving. Instead of relying on cherry-picked soundbites, I suggest that posters read the entire sermon. Then make up your mind. Then argue.</p>

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<p>Nope. Not going to happen, marite. Reading the full sermon, just like reading the transcript of Obama’s speech on race and Pastor Wright, would not service the political agenda of those who need to gnaw on this bone long enough to extract the marrow of an Obama defeat.</p>

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<p>poet; I never said that obama’s book had anything racist in it. Nor did I ever say Obama ever said anything racist. Please read what I wrote and not what you want it to say. My point was that he couldn’t have been totally ignorant of Wright’s sermons. That he can’t really use the excuse that he went to his church for 20 years and never heard controversial sermons. My point was that he must have been awake and listening during his sermons. Awake so much as to have even written a book based on a sermon and philosophy. I gave different possible scenarios of how Obama could have possibly not HEARD any of this type of statements. The one possibility was that he slept through all the sermons. Obviously he didn’t. Not if he could write a book about a sermon’s message. Nothing about the book itself. Please read what is written and not what you want it to say.</p>

<p>The problem here is we have our own prejudices. Some think if you are conservative, then you automatically love big business, hate minorities, hate the poor, hate the environment, hate Obama, etc… Just as some think the same about liberals are naive, socialists, envious of those who have worked hard, all want welfare and other government social programs, etc… We need to get past that,</p>

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<p>Please try not to whine, ph. Obama wants to be president. Scrutiny and opposite-aisle criticism (with plenty of cheap shots) comes with the territory. Presidential politics are contact sports. You don’t see Obama crying he’s not getting enough sleep or has to endure criticism. I rather like the way he’s standing up and being a leader, despite the heat.</p>

<p>He gets no pass just because he’s one-half AA just like Hillary gets none because she’s female.</p>

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<p>Christcorp, post no. 72 was not written with you in mind. I have to go shopping with my sister:rolleyes: this afternoon, but I’ll be back later this evening to further engage you in this discussion. Hope your afternoon is good and productive.</p>

<p>Peace—Poet:)</p>

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<p>Thank you Marite and Poetsheart for your posts. </p>

<p>Here are a couple of quotes for anyone interested in understanding the controversy from Obama’s perspective rather than the opposing party’s agenda. All the links are from Josh Marshall’s talking points memo. I removed the link because I’m unclear on what counts as a private blog. </p>

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<p>In an interview to air tomorrow on ABC, Obama addressed this in a strikingly straightforward way:</p>

<pre><code>“I’m not vetting my pastor,” Obama told “The View.” “I didn’t have a research team during the course of 20 years to go pull every sermon he’s given and see if there’s something offensive that he’s said.”
</code></pre>

<h2>Obama may not be willing to do this, but you can bet that the Republicans are already doing it quite diligently, thank you very much.</h2>

<p>Obama: I Wouldn’t Have Stayed With Church If Wright Hadn’t Retired
By Eric Kleefeld - March 28, 2008, 8:46AM</p>

<p>During an appearance on The View set to air today, Barack Obama distanced himself from Jeremiah Wright in more explicit terms than he has until now, specifically saying that he would have left the church if not for Wright’s retirement.</p>

<h2>“Had the reverend not retired, and had he not acknowledged that what he had said had deeply offended people and were inappropriate and mischaracterized what I believe is the greatness of this country, for all its flaws, then I wouldn’t have felt comfortable staying at the church,” Obama said.</h2>

<p>This passage from Obama’s speech regarding the Wright controversy is particularly apt for the participants on this thread:</p>

<p>We can play Reverend Wright’s sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she’s playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.</p>

<p>We can do that.</p>

<p>But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.</p>

<p>That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, “Not this time.”</p>

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<p>^^ And THAT is how a politician attempts to deflect the incoming assaults.</p>

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<p>I am sorry, but when I heard that one yesterday, I just start laughing…let me get this right it took you 20 yrs to decide that you were uncomfortable in your church? If that is the truth, all I can say is WOW
If it is a politician’s squirming around and you actually believe him, than I have a great bridge to sell you that connect NY and NJ, I even have the papers to prove that I own it</p>

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<p>b&p - the phrase, “willing suspension of disbelief” comes to mind.</p>

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<p>I believe it. I’ve been uncomfortable with the Catholic church since childhood (the whole church, not just one priest.) yet it took me until after having children to wonder why I stayed. Sometimes things are just not black and white.</p>