<p>So far the discussion has revolved around gun laws and policy. Let’s please keep politics out of it for those who may want to continue the discussion. I will go first by refusing to rise to the bait of silly old chestnuts.</p>
<p>Sorry, hayden. Was responding to a specific line that kluge referenced in regards to my POV. Was not trying to derail thread.</p>
<p>I have a question. If you own a gun and keep it in your home does your insurance company know? Would your homeowners/umbrella policy cover you if anything happened with it? </p>
<p>I ask because I don’t think insurance companies are allowed to charge more for homes that have guns so I wonder if they exclude them from coverage.</p>
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<p>This is very true. I get so tired of hearing any reasonable proposal designed to prevent accidental gun deaths or the possession of unnecessary and unreasonable weapons like military style assault weapons as being an attempt to tear down the constitution and destroy our freedom. It’s just another example of how many NRA members lack even the basic ability to reason.</p>
<p>If insurance companies excluded homeowners for gun possession they would go out of business in my state. They never asked when I applied and neither did the life insurance company.</p>
<p>Today, I just took care of a 74 year old victim of a home invasion. Two 16 year old girls kicked her door open and assaulted her while her grandchildren hid. I would love to see the statistics on home invasions too so we can assess the risks of that crime. The patient did not own a weapon and despite calling the cops, the assailants were already gone by the time the police arrived.</p>
<p>…And no one died, correct? Here’s another anecdote: [PEOPLE</a> v. NEM, No.?A100212., December 10, 2003 - CA Court of Appeal | FindLaw](<a href=“http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1445772.html]PEOPLE”>http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1445772.html)</p>
<p>What I find interesting is that this event was extolled on this pro-gun website as providing excellent PR for the pro-carry cause: <a href=“http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33751[/url]”>http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33751</a></p>
<p>Homeowner: dead. Wife: shot but survived. Outcome if homeowner had no gun? Obviously uncertain, but was it likely to be worse? Did Dr. Fang’s bona fide defensive use of a gun actually result in a better outcome than if he had not had one? The gun lovers at thefiringline forums are united in cheering the outcome of this DGU. I’m not so sure it didn’t make a bad situation worse.</p>
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<p>And if the 74 year old woman had a gun located somewhere in the house, what would have happened when she went to retrieve it? Gun taken from her and she is now dead instead of just beaten up?</p>
<p>Here’s a link from the Justice Department offering statistics on victimization during household burglaries:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vdhb.pdf</a></p>
<p>To summarize some salient details, there were an average of 3.7 million household burglaries each year from 2003-2007. In 72.4 % of them, no homeowner was present. A household member was the victim of a violent crime in 7.2 % of the cases. The vast majority of these were instances of simple assault. Serious injury accounted for 9 % of injuries. Rape (I’m not sure if this is included under serious injury or a separate category) or sexual assault occurred in 2.2 % of all burglaries where a homeowner was home, accounting for .6 % of all burglaries overall. The number of instances in which a resident was murdered are apparently too small to figure statistically. In 65% of all instances of violent crime during burglaries, the victim knew the perpetrator. </p>
<p>My own opinion is that these numbers don’t make the case for individual gun ownership in most cases. If I believed that every one of the victims of rape and serious injury could have defended themselves successfully with a gun, then I would accept that it might be worth the cost, but I don’t. In the first place, owning a gun - especially if you are being responsible about it - doesn’t mean having instantaneous access to it upon being surprised by an intruder in the middle of the night. Presumably, people aren’t keeping it under their pillows. If the victim does get access to the gun, she might be able to defend herself, or she might escalate the situation to even more dangerous levels. In the majority of cases in which the victim knew the intruder, there are all sorts of other personal factors that might prevent the gun from being used effectively. </p>
<p>By the way, a resident faced an armed intruder in only 12 % of the cases of violent burglary when a homeowner was present. In at least some of the other 88%, one would imagine that appropriate self-defense might have included measures other than brandishing a gun.</p>
<p>razorsharp, that’s what I am wondering. If she had a gun…it’s not like she could get to it…</p>
<p>The problem with self-protection and young families, whether children or grandchildren, is that if the gun is loaded and accessible enough to get hold of in an emergency, there’s a terrible risk the children can get it just as easily. And if the gun is stored safely away from children, can it be accessed quickly enough to defend yourself. From my perspective, that’s really what it all boils down to. </p>
<p>I have a lot of sympathy for people who live in isolated rural areas where police response time could be long.</p>
<p>According to the news, there have been quite a few accidental & deliberate gun deaths recently.
Suicide by firearm now exceed vehicle fatalities in Colorado.
[Childrens</a> deaths by guns](<a href=“http://mtstandard.com/news/opinion/children-s-deaths-by-guns/article_171d2814-5a1e-11e3-b318-001a4bcf887a.html]Childrens”>http://mtstandard.com/news/opinion/children-s-deaths-by-guns/article_171d2814-5a1e-11e3-b318-001a4bcf887a.html)</p>
<p>The patient suffered a fractured hip, finger, and bruises that months later she was still having surgery. She has multiple myeloma which made her injuries worse. She knew one of the assailants and estimated about 20 kicks before the door opened. One is serving community service and the other awaiting trial as an adult due to her criminal history. Everyone who heard the story here said they would have shot the assailants as soon as they kicked the door open. Most people have multiple loaded weapons throughout their home locked in Gunvaults that take 1 or 2 seconds to open.</p>
<p>A few of you have mentioned your political ideologies. I was also very liberal growing up; that’s easy in NYC. I have become more libertarian socially. Gun rights is the only topic I agree with conservatives. I don’t agree with them on the subject enough to vote for a conservative candidate.</p>
<p>Google ‘elderly woman - home invasion’ and reflect, next time you’re reading about someone being shot on a front porch other than their own. </p>
<p>The point’s been suggested that even if an old lady had a gun, what would she be able to do with it? I have to agree that there’s a good chance she’ll either be brutally beaten, ending up in the trauma ward, or be brutally beaten and end up in the morgue. </p>
<p>Indistinguishable from a 27 year old single girl without a gun, in other words.</p>
<p>Ok I did a Google search. How about this one?</p>
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<p>[92-year-old</a> Texas woman fights off home invader | khou.com Houston](<a href=“http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/92-year-old-Texas-woman-fights-off-home-invader-232137831.html]92-year-old”>http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/92-year-old-Texas-woman-fights-off-home-invader-232137831.html)</p>
<p>Scratched my reply, since I’m not sure what the lesson here is. </p>
<p>That she didn’t need one? That she lost her weapon to the street? That, she intends to toast the next one, instead of arguing with him?</p>
<p>I think the lesson is: Life Alert Monitors save lives.</p>
<p>The burgler ran when she hit the button.</p>
<p>Another lesson is: Help your local thief to advance his career by keeping your handgun on a handy bed side table! After he grabs it he’ll be better armed in his next home invasion.</p>
<p>We had a killer in our area years ago killing grannies and widows in their homes. I remember the local sheriff suggesting, among other recommendations to panicked community residents, that elderly in community get small yapping type dogs to spook off the killer if he came by their houses and to alert the home residents too. The killer was eventually caught, sent to prison, was killed about a year later by other inmates during a volleyball game in the prison yard…stabbed to death.</p>
<p>Like they say, getting old looks to suck. </p>
<p>Instead of the expectation of a community where the elderly are treated with respect, I’m hearing that I’ll need to: get an emergency button, stop opening my door to see who’s stumbling around on my steps, probably paint my windows shut and do the burglar bar thing lest I run across a home invader that wants more than me just putting my shoes on. </p>
<p>That getting robbed only hurts the first time, and after awhile it might even begin to feel good. </p>
<p>[Fort</a> Myers teen arrested after random attacks - NBC-2.com WBBH News for Fort Myers, Cape Coral & Naples, Florida](<a href=“http://www.nbc-2.com/story/24078378/possible-knockout-game-attacks-reported-in-lee-county#.Up38difAFSa]Fort”>http://www.nbc-2.com/story/24078378/possible-knockout-game-attacks-reported-in-lee-county#.Up38difAFSa)</p>
<p>More questionable behavior by Zimmerman’s girlfriend.</p>
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<p>[George</a> Zimmerman’s Girlfriend Wants to Drop Charges, ‘Be With Him’ - ABC News](<a href=“George Zimmerman's Girlfriend Wants to Drop Charges, 'Be With Him' - ABC News”>George Zimmerman's Girlfriend Wants to Drop Charges, 'Be With Him' - ABC News)</p>
<p>It’s very sad but true that victims of domestic violence often go back to their abusers and drop charges, either because he threatens to hurt her or her family if she doesn’t OR because he apologizes, acts contrite, cries and gives her presents, tells her he will never do it again and that she’s the only one he’s ever loved, etc. etc. (the “honeymoon” part of the domestic violence cycle). It’s difficult for most of us, male and female, to conceive of why someone would return to an abuser, but it happens frequently. In a high percentage of these situations, the woman was raised in a home with domestic violence and that’s all she’s known.</p>
<p>That GZ’s girlfriend says she wants to be with him again is likely part of this cycle. It may be questionable behavior but unfortunately it is not atypical behavior.</p>