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Irene~</p>
<p>This family is very much like that! Most of their kids are EXTREMELY high achieving, and all of them are absolutely LOVELY kids in every way. GREAT, GREAT family. I just don’t understand the stance on early marriage…</p>
<p>~b.</p>
<p>Marian, I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. I was joking that the 10% virgins weren’t being honest. It was definitely a joke though. </p>
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<p>Of the 10% who are lying, 88% are false negatives, ie they claim they didn’t but they did. I think we know who these folks are.</p>
<p>11% are false positives, ie they say they did, but they really didn’t. You know these folks too!</p>
<p>The remaining 1% of the liars, well we can’t figure out what they are saying, because when you ask them if they had premarital sex they answer the question in a very evasive manner without agreeing on what the actual definition of sex is! And we also know who that is!! :D</p>
<p>What am I saying? Some people have premarital sex after they are married!</p>
<p>kind of scary that 19 year olds arent allowed to think for themselves…what this girl can’t say no, mom I want to stay single awhile?</p>
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cgm~</p>
<p>I really don’t think it’s as simple as this, cgm. Within the Mormon religion, by and large, young girls are taught that marriage and making babies (creating a family) is the highest calling to which they can aspire. If the children have been well-taught, they <em>want</em> to get married as soon as they find a man they deem suitable. And this girl is no exception. So, this young girl <em>IS</em> “thinking for herself,” within the constraints of what she has been brought up to believe for her whole life. Her older sister also married at 19, I believe, and one of the other Mormon girls who went to school with my son got married immediately after h.s. graduation when she was 18. </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Why not be Queen of your House rather than be ruled over by your mother? The sex can either be a small sacrifice or a fringe benefit.</p>
<p>I think it’s true, as itstoomuch implied, that many of these girls-- and boys too-- feel that they go from “belonging” to their birth family to “belonging” to the new family they create. There’s no period in their life where they just belong to themselves-- so the marriage option might seem ideal under those circumstances, if they want to feel like a grown up but can’t under their parents’ wing. For some, I guess it works out. I hope they enjoy the sex.</p>
<p>I’m not a big fan of a girl jumping from her father’s house to her husband’s house, but that’s just my opinion.</p>
<p>They want the girls married iff asap to control them, while they are still afraid of being alone and on their own, with a man to take care of them…she is in no way thinking for herself…it is just she knows nothing else, has been taught to fear, and doesn’t want to sham the family or get shunned</p>
<p>it is like then garbage that Amish kids have this freedom to see if they want to go be Amish…when your options are so narrowed and when you fear losing your whole family if you take a different path, is that freedom</p>
<p>Define “premarital sex.” Does it count if the invitations have gone out? I actually know several couples who started having sex at that point in the relationship (and one couple who stopped using birth control at that point, with the unhappy result that she had morning sickness on their honeymoon).</p>
<p>“premarital sex.” </p>
<p>Well, I think the term is self explanitory. :)</p>
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Yeah, me too, BUT…this <em>IS</em> CC. There does not exist one phrase, one WORD, one TINY letter that can’t be analyzed in about 23 different ways! ;)</p>
<p>~b.</p>
<p>“Yeah, me too, BUT…this <em>IS</em> CC”</p>
<p>I was soo close to going to the “is…is” myself. :)</p>
<p>Everything has a shelf life. While it is encouraging to hear of a teen virgin, it’s sad to hear of a middle aged one.</p>
<p>Not necessarily. If I never marry I will die a virgin. Unless I find myself a suitable wife, they can go ahead and make a documentary of me called “The 80 Year Old Virgin” or if I make it long enough, “The Virgin Supercenturian”.</p>
<p>Marriage is no longer my top priority in life because I have found so few moral girls out there. In fact, of all the girls I know, I would probably only consider dating about seven of them…and I know hundreds of girls. I also know plenty of girls who were really good girls at one time but were corrupted by absolute idiot boys. Of course, I subscribe to Thomas Hobbes’ point of view and believe people are bad by nature so what can you expect?</p>
<p>My top priority is revolutionizing education, at least in my classroom. And if I don’t get married, I will die a virgin and I’d be proud to have that stated at my funeral should I remain single.</p>
<p>AF: Why do you put so much stock on remaining a virgin until marriage? How does being a virgin make you “moral”? Why not have sex with someone you’re in love with even if you’re not married? Why do you value marriage so much? I’m just curious, because I used to be like you. I used to think that love can’t be expressed through sex, but as I grew up, I began to “understand” why. I just think that life is too short. I realized that people come and go, and that I should’ve been braver to let people know that I loved them when I did. I should not have been blinded by tradition in deciding whether or not to share this degree of personal contact with them.</p>
<p>Also, you linked morality, sex, and Thomas Hobbes. I’m perplexed because Hobbes does not refer to pre-marital sex as “evil.” Care to explain why you think so?</p>
<p>I am a religious guy. I am a firm believer in the sacred vow because I am a Christian. Anything outside of that in terms of sex is adultery.</p>
<p>But could you explain why you are religious? What inspires you to believe in the Christian doctrine? That is the fundamental question.</p>
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How do you know what this young girl, or ANY Mormon girl thinks? I think Berurah is closer to the truth when she says that the girl is following a path that she has been shown to lead to family happiness. If she’s already in college, I think she can probably think for herself. Don’t you people believe in love? Where’s the romance?</p>
<p>For the record, I met my husband at 20 and was married at 21, as is the case with some other posters. Actually, I knew we would be married after dating for only a few weeks, and it’s only because he had a little common sense that we waited a year and a half. I’ve never lived by myself – unless you count my husband’s many business trips! – and I don’t feel that I’ve missed anything. I have a good friend who was married for a short period of time in her late 20’s, but has otherwise been single and lived alone for most of her adult life. I think she probably wishes that she had met someone at 19. I also don’t think that premarital sex with someone you really love is the end of the world – it’s the “hooking up” or “friends with benefits” casual sex that I think is so damaging.</p>
<p>I don’t get the hooking up or friends with benefits, but I’m also not crazy about the endless parade of partners that comes with serial monogamy. I found it difficult to explain to my kids at family holidays why my niece had a different “special someone” every year. What’s so special about that? It was like they were a dime a dozen. It seemed like trying on different pairs of shoes, but people aren’t shoes.</p>
<p>DKE:
Sounds like your niece was simply following the logic in “If the shoe don’t fit, you just gotta quit”. :)</p>