<p>Don’t forget the social factors of being on a team. Not sure if boys are the same but D experienced an interesting senior year due to leaving one of her HS sports teams. Her situation is a little different in that she was a starter but wanted to concentrate on another of her three sports. H and I tried to tell her that some of her basketball friends would move on and not have time for her even though she would be training for her college sport. Unfortunately that did hapen and those friendships were never the same. It was a difficult lesson for her to learn. Maybe he likes the guys and knows they wouldn’t hang out together if he wasn’t with them. I would let him make the decision.</p>
<p>I think younghoss hit it dead on … talk to your son about his concerns and let him decide what he wants to do … he has been juggling ECs and school work for 10 yers and will do so fro at least 6 more (2 in HS and 4 in college); he, frankly, has a much better idea if being on the team will seriously hurt his academics (we had this discusion with one of our kids and their response was if I cut out computer games in season I’ll be fine - and his grades went up in season). Personally I’m all for HS students being involved with a lot of things without being too worried about applying for college as long as their choices leave their options open later and as long as the level of colleges for which they are shooting doesn’t limit their HS experience too much (if taking the load required for Harvard requires dropping all ECs, only sleeping 5 hours a night, and never goofing off … then don’t shoot for Harvard).</p>
<p>PS - your son also knows best if he’d be OK being the junior leader on the JVs and a part-time or limited varisty player as a senior … everyone gets different things out of sports … if this works for him I’d say he should go for it.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your replies. I’d like to clarify a couple of points.
1-Younghoss, your experience and spirit most paraellel my son’s.
2-Youdontsay: Yup I know, and he’d like to go to UT and is currently in the top 6% of class but in Junior year with many kids taking lots of AP’s position can change easily.
3-I didn’t mean to say that being in athletics would sacrifice academics, it is just a matter of scheduling. There are just so many periods in the day and adding the athletics class means he will most likely drop a weighted AP, assuming he would do well in this class, and I expect he would the outcome will be a lower GPA and rank. Those are the facts. Making the sacrifice for a good experience would be worth it but for a rerun of this past year, not so much.
4-To be clear my S made his decision. He was not happy with his situation this past year but he dealt with it like a champ. He is blessed with amazing social skills and knows no strangers. He really doesn’t need basketball for social reasons. He does really enjoy his team but he is blessed with enjoying people in general. He wants to be in basketball because he wants to play. When coach indicated he wouldn’t play he wanted out of the class, when coach said he would play, S wants back in the class. If it doesn’t pan out that way he will be very disappointed and beyond that he will have paid a price with regard to his academic success. S is perfectly fine with playing JV. I am perfectly fine with what is good for him and makes him happy.<br>
5-Let me clarify about the coaching situation. The coach that spoke with him to tell him he wouldn’t make the team and then that he would was the head coach who coaches varsity. He also influences the full program. The JV coach who didn’t play him is leaving we don’t know who will replace him. With regard to almost no play time I mean just that. In the regular season he played 21 seconds, period. Without getting into the details of the situation he didn’t feel like a member of the team, he held his head up and was a trouper when he was out there but after the games when he came home it was clear that this wasn’t a good time. He lost a lot of confidence in his game and was almost surprised to see how well he could play when he resumed playing club ball. He wants to be on the team because coach indicated he would play. As his mom I concerned with coach building up his hopes only to burst his bubble. That has happened before. Its not about the glory or status, its just about protecting my kiddo. Once their in college it is all up to them, in HS parents still have some influence. If this past year hadn’t been so extrordinarily bad I would have less of a yearning to intervene.
6-I will not stop him from gettng basketball back on his schedule I am however warey about this new encouragement.
7-And yes, S is well aware of the physical risk of playing with bigger players, he’s not tall but has adequate height to be a guard and is still growing, he is very fit looking but next to most of the other sophs he is a lightweight but he is working on that.</p>
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<p>No one has suggested equal time for everyone so stop the nonsense. Whether a JV team is good or bad - either way there are many chances to get kids playing time. If you’re going to lose, get the subs in, if you’re going to win, get the subs in … it’s not a hard concept on any level of basketball including the pros. </p>
<p>In my neck of the woods, the better players don’t even play a game at the JV level so kids coming up that way are mostly backups anyway. Kids that just miss out on varsity are as likely to go to AAU Basketball as to spend time on JV. Kids with a lot of potential on a weak VARSITY team might opt to go to a private school with a great basketball program. Whatever the case, it’s ALL developmental. </p>
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<p>A pick-up game behind the high school is competitive … so what’s the point?</p>
<p>Stay out of it. You can supplement is playing time with a club team in the summer.</p>
<p>The reality and learning point for any young person in this type of situation is that there are good people to work/play/learn from/for and there are bad people. Unfortunately, your son looks like he got a bad coach. I know everyone has their philosophies on high school sports being competitive/developmental and variations on JV vs. varsity. But, to only play any player 21 seconds for the whole year is just plain wrong. I’m guessing there were probably others who played very little as well. </p>
<p>There are national coaching groups (Positive Coaching Alliance among others) and respected coaches who would be appalled at treating a 14 year old this way. Unfortunately, the reality is that in most cases neither winning nor development occur when the starters get ALL of the playing time and the reserves do not contribute at all. First, there is a natural resentment by the subs and an eventual breakdown of team spirit and team work. Inevitably, a starter gets injured or becomes sick and a sub has to take over. Best case scenario the sub plays well and there is no let down, more typically, the sub is so nervous and unprepared they don’t play well or the starters have no confidence in the sub since the coach obviously had no confidence in the player until absolutely necessary. </p>
<p>Coaches need to select players for the team that they are committed to and will work to get them SOME playing time. It’s for the good of the individual and for the team. Locally, there are numerous examples of both ends of the coaching philosophy. Some coaches ONLY play their starters to the vast exclusion of the subs. By the end of the season, the starters are so exhausted and worn down they can’t keep things rolling. The subs are just counting the days until the season is over and are actually relieved when the team loses in the playoffs. Other coaches find ways to keep the subs engaged throughout the season, building team spirit, camaraderie and team work and giving their “best” players needed breaks not only over the course of the season, but even during a tightly contested game. Then the starters are more ready to play well in the closing minutes of a game or through the playoffs. </p>
<p>Year after year, the coaches who do not sub rack up wins early in the season, fade near the end and lose early in the playoffs. Meanwhile, the coaches who engage their whole team may lose some early season games, but get stronger down the stretch and go far into the playoffs including numerous state finals and championships. </p>
<p>This year I have seen 5 or 6 games where the stronger team (starters) lost to a weaker team because of poor substitution usage. The stronger team got run down and ground up late in a game by a team that utilized their bench. (Bench strength was about the same. I am a club coach and knew the players involved from either coaching or coaching against them.) How much damage can a “pretty good” player do in a few minutes to give the “star” player a break? Michael Jordon and Kobe Bryant never played 48 minutes a game every game. </p>
<p>The coach who does not utilize all the assets available to him/her will ultimately fail at their primary goal of winning. They win regular season games but fail miserably in the playoffs. Unfortunately, all the athletes on the team suffer in the end because of the coaches poor use of the entire team. If they are good enough to be ON the team they are good enough to play SOMETIMES.</p>
<p>Spectrum2 - Sorry for the rambling post above. Obviously, I have strong opinions on this general subject. Ultimately, it is your son’s decision. All you can do is support him. Make sure he understands the options/outcomes. Be there if he needs you to listen and let him have the experience - good or bad.</p>
<p>Not to say I agree or disagree with ctyankee, but I think I can answer his question of “what’s the point?” not understanding various levels of competition. Generally speaking, one expects the more advanced a team in a sport happens to be, the more competition is stressed. So a pro baseball team is expected to be in a must-win situation each game. This can mean only the best players play. They don’t start “Mr. Smith” at first base today, because he didn’t get in the game yesterday. They aren’t there to boost ego, or foster good sportsmanship. A Tee-ball league is often for first-time learners who may get mixed up on which base they run to after they hit the ball. Most feel those at that age need to learn more about hand/eye coordination, sportsmanship, and since they are just starting to learn the rules of the game, there is generally no pressure to win or lose. Many stages in-between. In organized competition, a rec league would be considered less competitive than a school team. Hence, since there is less emphasis on winning it is often common, and sometimes a rule that all players play. Typically, the playing time changes as one moves up the organized competition level. Who must play, and how long are rules common for beginners, but fade away as one moves up the organized sports “food chain” </p>
<p>Similarly, I played in a rec coed volleyball league some yrs ago. There were 2 league specific rules- no men could spike the ball, and if a team hit the ball(not counting a blocked shot) over the net, then a woman must have hit it at least once. A more advanced league made of better players would not likely have had such rules.</p>
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<p>You must have been playing against our HS soccer team! 
The coach is notorious for this. Even the parents of starters who are recruited athletes at top schools complain about it.</p>
<p>Please don’t apologize for your post, My3tuitions. You have given an excellent and realistic description of how a GOOD coach uses the bench, in contrast to the “survival of the fittest” posturing we all too often see on this topic.</p>
<p>Been there, done this. D played on the JV team this year - she got a decent amount of playing time while if she had been on the V team, she would probably have not seen the court. The coach uses the starters + 3 or so kids - all the others just sit on the bench. Sometimes, if they are lucky, they get to play for a minute or so. Often, there would be stretches where kids wouldn’t have played in the past three-four games.</p>
<p>D still wants to play next year. I am really not convinced that the amount of playing time she gets will warrant all the time/effort she has to put in during the season. But she loves playing, has kind of accepted the role she is in and wants to continue. It’s her choice and even though I am not really fond of it, I am going to go along.</p>
<p>Contrast that with D’s spring sport. Coach has a lot of players (couldn’t bring himself to cut players apparently). But this is a different sport and he has the opportunity to play a lot of kids. He tries to get each and every kid on the team involved in each game - as far as he can. I’ve only seen two games so far where he didn’t sub - both were incredibly close games. </p>
<p>OP - I completely get your point about the fact that this time/effort could be applied to other things. D was very interested in doing tech for the drama troupe - but never could do it since they also meet right after school. I suggested to her that she could quit one of the sports and do tech crew or another club instead - but her heart is not in it. She wants to be a part of the team …</p>
<p>^^^If it were that he just wanted to be a part of the team I would accept that. He has clearly stated that this isn’t enough for him and he would quit the team if he was put in the same situation as this year. He also opted out of the class when coach told him it was a longshot for him to make the varsity team and even if he did he wouldn’t get much play time. If I haven’t made it clear being on the team also involves a class period. Not everyone in the class is on the team but virtually all on the team are in an athletics class. This isn’t a rule, its just the way it happens. (In S’s case its a toss up between AP class and Basketball class). The team is chosen later in the school year so once he takes the class the AP option is gone. The only reason why S is opting for the athletics class is because now coach is leading him to believe that he will make the JV team and be a leader on that team. My S has already had prior experience with being lead to believe that he was valued and then felt devalued. That is what makes me so wary. I’m concerned that my S may fall victim to a kind of bait and switch. In anycase I think it is important for the coach to hear, in a polite way how negative the situation S and a couple of others were in this fall was. Without going into detail, this was a new strategy that had not been tried before. I really think they need feedback on this but no one talks to them. I really want to believe that coach is being sincere before S gets let down. High school and life are too short for that kind of negativity and one year of it is enough. But still with that carrot dangling in front of him, S wants to go for it. I don’t know that coach isn’t sincere, I’m just guarded about it.</p>
<p>As many have said just being on the team is great for some kids. It just isn’t for this kid. It’s just that my kid isn’t seeing that the same thing might happen all over again. Frankly I think he’s flattered by the coaches interaction with him. Its something he didn’t get from the JV coach all season.</p>
<p>Oh and My3tuitions, I second, no need to apologize! I wish S’s coach would read your post!</p>
<p>When I woke up in the middle of the night, I thought of this thread. I wanted to post something earlier but thought I’d get flamed so didn’t.</p>
<p>The last time you posted I think I wrote that you should leave it up to him, and I still believe that. But with the additional information I can’t help but feel like I’d lean toward advising him to quit the team. As m3t said beautifully, there are good coaches and bad coaches and you’ve got one who seems less than trustworthy. That, coupled with his desire to attend UT and being close to the cut off, make me think his greater interest would be served by dropping basketball class. If the coach is sincere about his being a leader and because the class is not required to be on the team, then he can still play while having the more rigorous schedule.</p>
<p>Something to know, if this is your first, is that as the years go on, kids drop out of HS and, through no fault of your ds’s, his rank goes down, down, down. Again, IF going to UT is his ultimate goal and dream school, then the more rigorous sked/higher GPA is going to benefit him most. Caveat: When ds was a freshman, he thought he wanted to go to UT, too. As a senior has chosen a school that couldn’t be more different than UT.</p>
<p>It may sound odd, but when I recommended the student make the choice, I had more than one thing in mind.
Of course the obvious, is that the student makes the right choice and is forever after thrilled with the outcome. The other thing is knowing the student may make the wrong choice. This isn’t any earth-shattering choice. It isn’t whether or not to attend college, whether or not to marry, or whether or not to commit arson. It is one sport, or one class. If he makes a choice that doesn’t turn out the best choice, well, then he learns and that is a good thing, and he learns it without any real serious consequences.
Neither choice is a wrong choice here- although one may prove to be better than another. I don’t see parent job as always deciding what is best for the child. Sometimes(for all of us) learning from a mis-step is more beneficial as long as the consequences aren’t too tragic. I return to my orig advice- let student decide and parent butt out.</p>
<p>I agree with yh that it is important to let the kids make and learn from their decisions - good and bad. I have significant experience dealing with high school class choice recommendations with my kids. One I recommended to enter the schools very good Information Technology (IT) academic track. There was resistance to taking the whole track, but a sampling of classes were taken. Guess what the college major is…yep IT. The next one followed the same track of taking a few classes and we suggested taking the intro to engineering class with the local college which was not followed. Well, this one’s currently undeclared, but leaning toward, you guessed it - Engineering. I was always very careful not to push too hard for any of these or even say “I told you so” later (although my internal voice was screaming it!). Now, they actually come to me for advice on college class slections and concentrations. </p>
<p>I guess the old saying that “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink” is true…BUT, if you can get him to take a sip (or even think about taking a sip) he might come back for more. All you can do is present the options, consequences and opportunities and let them figure it out. Good luck.</p>
<p>D was a 2 sport kid, vb and bb. Coaches for both had state championships in their brains and so disliked each other that they started “threatening” the girls who were 2 sport kids that they had to make a choice, despite the fact that the sports did not overlap. Both coaches were not really coaches but had talented players who helped make the teams good. D was used pretty much as a “bandage” - go in and fix things when the top starters fouled out or were screwing up badly. She often outscored the starters and the assistant coaches were pleading regularly to the coach to have her put in sooner. Both teams she played on made it to state finals. She was on the vb team that won. Her senior year she was the only senior bb player who did not get a chance to play in the finals (team lost anyway). Am I bitter - you bet! However, it did not kill her love of the sports and today she continues to play, though mostly against guys. 
Revenge did come - when the coaches lost all of their talented players to graduation and were left with a group of kids they actually had to coach, they never made it into the playoffs.</p>
<p>I think this is harder for Texas families than for most of ours because of the way a sport is a “class” in Texas high schools.</p>
<p>MWM2K: You are exactly right if this were just a question of whether to tryout for the team or not this would be easy.</p>
<p>YDS: Thank you for thinking of me. You do get our challenge and if it were up to me I would just have him stick with club ball and forget the school team. After I read your post I asked S if he thought he could try out for the team if he wasn’t in the class. He told me probably not. He is probably right since coach is making an exception to his “no Junior’s on JV” policy specifically for my S (I don’t know if any other rising Juniors were given that offer) and it might not apply if he isn’t in the class. I also talked to S about the implications for going to UT and I asked him how important that was to him. He answered, “not that important.” So there we have it for today. As far as making the choice goes all I can really do is feed him the facts. If he didn’t play bball and had a terrible time with the AP class (which I don’t expect would happen because he is strong in that subject) but still that would be my fault. There is no guarantee that he will have the rank he’s going for even with the AP class so again if that fell though it would also be my fault. </p>
<p>I just want to know that coach does value my kid and that he will be given a fair shot at JV. Knowing the rising Sophs and S’s skill he would be a solid player on the JV team if it were forming today. </p>
<p>The consistent opinion that I have heard here is not to talk to coach since S doesn’t want me to. Is there ever a time that it is appropriate for a parent to speak to a coach? I have a hard time seeing why a conversation regarding concerns is such a bad thing.</p>
<p>BTW YDS I do have an older S and he too said he was going to UT but never called it his dream school. It turns out that when decision time came he also made a very different choice he chose an LAC far from Texas. Its about as different from UT as one can get!</p>
<p>Sounds like he really wants to do the sport. I’d let him.</p>
<p>The reason why I wouldn’t talk to the coach is twofold. One, I’m not sure why the coach would be any straighter with you than your ds. Situations change, so he can’t possibly make an ironclad guarantee. I just don’t think it would be particularly helpful and could backfire. Two, unless this were a situation where you really felt like your ds was being abused, I think 15/16 is old enough to handle this himself.</p>
<p>This is so difficult. My ds loves his sport and as a freshman he was moved into a starting role on varsity (he wasn’t that great; it’s that the team was that poor). He was even given a tournament award for his play. Sophomore year, new coach and ds was benched a few weeks in. Eventually, he became a coaching asst. It was sooo difficult to not see him play. We didn’t know what he had done to merit such treatment, and neither did the other parents in the stands. We encouraged ds to talk to the coach, but he wouldn’t/couldn’t. At the end of the year banquet, I learned that the kid who got his spot had a dad who was lobbying behind the scenes. I was angry the coach would be swayed by a buttinski parent. I wondered whether I should have been in his face, too. Junior year another new coach. He regained a starting spot in a different position, and in his senior year he remains a key player. Long way of saying that I think things work out for the best. I could have intervened on his behalf that sophomore year, but then ds would always have felt like he didn’t earn the spot but that his loudmouth mom had railroaded the coach. Sophomore year was horrible, but he knew that junior year he had made his own way and EARNED that starting position.</p>
<p>Good luck and please let us know what he decides!</p>
<p>I agree that your son should make his own decision about basketball. He will learn a lot from this experience, one way or another.</p>
<p>But, I also think that he should look very carefully at his dream of going to UT and how he will accomplish that. He needs to know that his class rank is crucial, and that his class size will likely decrease. He can figure out what his GPA might be without the AP class. He might be able to come up with a solution on his own-maybe find another AP class that he can take? Does he have a counselor that can help him figure out how his class rank might change with the different options?</p>