<p>Thanks everyone. Our travel agent warned us about Tangiers. She said it is a H<strong><em>H</em></strong> and we just shouldn’t go there. I had also expected Tuscany to be chilly and damp, but I will prepare for raw and damp.</p>
<p>Never been to Morocco, spent a month in Tuscany though. If you don’t want to tackle Florence (which would probably be a nightmare, but is absolutely gorgeous and worth it if you can!), try Fiesole. It’s about 8km north of Florence and on a big hill–the sweeping views of Florence at sunset are absolutely fabulous. If you’re looking for a day (wish I had 2!) trip, try Assisi. It’s a beautiful medieval village and has tons of olive groves and tons of bakeries with the town’s famous beso cookies. You can hike up to the castle to see all the fields of the Umberto region. (If you do that, pay attention to the little olive farm to the left of the pathway as you descend the trail–it’s awesome). I really liked Siena, but it’s a lot of walking up and down hills. </p>
<p>If you have the time, I can’t imagine a better place to go than the Cinque Terre. The five towns along the riviera are probably the most picturesque place I’ve ever seen. At the very least, Google it or tripadvisor it or whatever.</p>
<p>Pisa & Bologna were a waste of time, in my opinion. Venice and Rome are incredible, but with only a week you’re probably better off concentrating your efforts to Tuscany. The train system in Italy makes it really easy to travel between cities–it’s quick, reliable, and cheap. </p>
<p>You’re going to have such a great time! I’m jealous, that’s for sure.</p>
<p>And Leanid (sorry about getting a little off track)…</p>
<p>The term Farsi in describing Persian is perfectly acceptable. For example, check the Harvard Film archives (this came to mind since we had a scholar from Tehran stay with us this summer ) He is a gentleman who is the least pretentious or ignorant person I know. He uses the term Farsi in conversation as well as in his English publications.</p>
<p>[Maziar</a> Bahari - Harvard Film Archive](<a href=“http://www.hcl.harvard.edu/hfa/films/2003mayjun/bahari.html]Maziar”>http://www.hcl.harvard.edu/hfa/films/2003mayjun/bahari.html)</p>
<p>musica,</p>
<p>In case you were not aware, there are different types of ice creams in Italy. Some of them are virtually identical to the American variety, that is, with a harder texture. These ice creams have existed as long as I have known Italy – around 55 years – and, I’ll wager, since before that. The ice creams that everyone in the States refers to as “gelato” is aimed at the type that has become well known for various reasons, such as mass tourism and “gelato” shops opening here in America. That type is the one you refer to as having a different “taste and texture”, and you are right. However, the Italians call ALL their ice creams “gelato”, therefore to assign that term to only one type is misleading and incorrect. Furthermore, what is wrong with using English terms? For my own part, I have always cringed a bit when in the company of someone speaking Italian who throws in a gratuitous word of English for effect. Why bother? Trying to impress…?</p>
<p>Your Iranian friend may have directed some films, but his substituting “Farsi” for Persian while communicating in English is incorrect. That “Harvard Film” did not catch the error does not make it any less so. </p>
<p>For the three years that my family and I lived in Iran (I really do wish they had kept “Persia” as its name – so much nicer sounding – rather than listen to that Nazi nonsense of their Aryan heritage, thus changing the name to Iran!), starting in 1964, the language was always referred to as Persian, by one and all.</p>
<p>“starting in 1964, the language was always referred to as Persian, by one and all.”</p>
<p>I have visitors from Tehran this weekend as well. I am saying that they currently us the word Farsi when referring to Persian. As in an email I received yesterday “…my parents only speak Farsi, so I will translate…” It is not incorrect. (my friend is not the director, but a scholar who wrote on these films) Could it POSSIBLY be that when a scholar at Harvard, when he uses the term Farsi, is not making an error? That when I or someone else uses the term gelato to reference a particular kind of ice cream (that is the Italian process which uses less milk fat and more sugar) might POSSIBLY be correct? Language is fluid and changing.
And “in case you were not aware” the term schifosa is extraordinarily RUDE. That, I know, has not changed since I lived in Italy.</p>
<p>^ I’m not sure the terms “Farsi” and “Persian” when used with respect to languages are interchangeable. This from the Penn Language Center, which teaches several dialects of Persian, including Farsi:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It goes on to state that the Farsi dialect of Persian is the first language of about 50% of the population of Iran, and that country’s official language.</p>
<p>Based on this, I don’t think it’s at all pretentious to speak of the dominant language of Iran as “Farsi.” It’s just more precise than calling it “Persian” which denotes a broader family of languages and dialects in the wider region.</p>
<p>Okay, bclintonk, but the point is that “Farsi” is still what one would say when speaking Persian, whereas, when one speaks English one calls it “Persian”.</p>
<p>when I refer to gelato as an English speaker, I refer to the Italian gelato process. Gelato (to be technical) does not have enough milk fat to be referred to as ice cream in English. In fact, if you sold the gelato process product in an American store, you are required by law to call it ice milk or gelato, since the milk fat solids are so low.</p>
<p>We need to move this thread to another title:</p>
<p>GELATO --don’t you DARE say that word</p>
<p>BethieVT-
Sorry to have hijacked your thread. This silly fight, along with pretentious Italian name calling is officially over. Have a lovely time and I do hope you enjoy your Italian Process Ice Cream.</p>
<p>Oh, it’s ok. I will eat frozen desserts if they are around and not if they’re not.</p>
<p>I’m wondering about what kind of coat to bring–maybe a below the knee raincoat with a wool liner? I just bought waterproof fur lined boots.</p>
<p>Try and take a thermal liner. They have GREAT ones at REI. I have used a trench coat with a wool liner AND a thermal liner in 30 degree temperature. Does the VT in your name stand for Vermont? If so, you are more of an expert than a Southern California girl like myself! I can take the cold, but not the damp. One Christmas, we traveled to Munich to get away from the damp in Florence. Our apartment had stone walls and it seemed we could never keep it warm enough. Even though it was 20 degrees colder in Munich, it seemed at least 20 degrees warmer than Florence.</p>
<p>Yes, we live in VT, but today it was 48 degrees. Global warming, I guess. I will look into a thermal liner. We have EMS (Eastern Mountain Sports) here, not REI. I’m actually thinking more of our son who is studying in Morocco. I guess we can buy him warmer clothes in Italy if he needs them.</p>
<p>When traveling, the rise in temperature is in direct proportion to the amount of warm clothes your bring. It’s a no win situation.</p>
<p>That is so wise and funny! I have been bringing the wrong clothes with me all year.</p>
<p>“…I refer to the Italian gelato process.”</p>
<p>Music, (notice I cleverly dropped the “a” in your name since Italian and English are apparently interchangeable).</p>
<p>What Italian “gelato” process?! It is ONE process for ONE type of gelato. THERE IS NO ONE GELATO PROCESS FOR ALL TYPES OF GELATO IN ITALY. What is there not to get about that?</p>
<p>Gelato is a generic term for ice cream – ALL TYPES. The fat content (cream) difference may be true but that is just semantics. Gelato literally means “frozen” – no reference to cream, at all. As such, it is a broad term encompassing all type of ice cream and ice milk. One can even say “Sono gelato.” (“I am frozen.”). </p>
<p>Last, I apologize for the rude remark which was uncalled for. I should have chosen my words more carefully. What I should have said was “annoiante” (that should be acceptable with the censors) – and it IS annoying to come up against such unyielding stubborness as you displayed. I’m sorry, I have known swine who were more appreciative. I did not launch into this to put you down, I did it to shed light on a misused term.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not at Penn, apparently (see post #26). And not in the International Language Encoding Standard 639-3 which uses the term “Persian” to refer to the broader family of languages, ancient and modern, spoken throughout the region, and the terms “Eastern Farsi” to refer to the contemporary Aghani (Dari) variant and “Western Farsi” to refer to the contemporary Iranian variant. </p>
<p>Look, there’s a lot of dispute about whether it’s better to use “Persian” or “Farsi” to refer to the predominant language of contemporary Iran. Some scholars use one, some use the other; both have reasons that, as best I can tell, are entirely political in nature. But it is not the simple, absolute black-and-white linguistic issue you make it out to be; it is not an incorrect use of the English language to use the term “Farsi” to refer to the modern variant of Persian spoken in contemporary Iran. Similarly with “gelato,” I imagine. The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition (2000) lists “gelato” as an English word, which it defines simply as “an Italian ice cream or ice.” Words migrate across languages all the time. It’s no more an incorrect use of English than for me to speak of a character’s “chutzpah” or “savoir-faire”; no more incorrect than for a Frenchman to say he enjoys “le weekend.”</p>
<p>“and it IS annoying to come up against such unyielding stubborness as you displayed. I’m sorry, I have known swine who were more appreciative.” (fyi L----I used the term “gelato” one time and THAT is when you insulted me----Unyielding stubborness!!!)</p>
<p>wow…Now that is what I call an apology!</p>
<p>For those of you who are at all interested (not leanid). In the AMERICAN food processing industry, there is a specific process which applies to the manufacturing (of what we in AMERICA refer to as) gelato. We, for the most part, are English speaking Americans, using the term gelato to discuss a particular type of ice cream. We are not Italians discussing all Italian ice cream. Got it?</p>
<p>As Bclintonk mentions, words migrate across languages all the time and we do not need to hurl insults at one another in order to discuss linguistic morphology.
[Gelato</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelato]Gelato”>Gelato - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Well, now there’s Ben and Jerry’s “Ice Cream” in Florence, the home of Vivoli’s gelato…<a href=“http://www.florence-journal.com/florence/2009/11/***-ben-jerrys-ice-cream-in-florence.html[/url]”>http://www.florence-journal.com/florence/2009/11/***-ben-jerrys-ice-cream-in-florence.html</a>
a little bit of Vermont in Tuscany!</p>
<p>Watch yourself Mamenyu…you are treading on thin ice (cream). Henceforth “it” will be referred to as the “g word”.</p>
<p>the photographs on the wiki site posted by musicamusica are breathtaking! The only better looking ice cream I’ve seen is Berthillion in Paris, where it is called…glace.
Here’s Vivoli’s website: [Il</a> Gelato Vivoli](<a href=“http://www.vivoli.it/]Il”>http://www.vivoli.it/)
Will B & J be able to compete; or is it a little like Starbucks coffee vs. espresso joints?</p>