Mountain lions in PA

Parent Cafe
41

In our area horses are common and cougars are sometimes seen on trail cams. But I’ve never heard of anyone losing a horse to cougars. Maybe the cats are more aggressive in other parts of the country, but around here you can live in the heart of cougar country for years and years and never see one or even any sign of one. Coyotes by the dozen and bobcats occasionally sure, but cougars? No.

Cougars are very shy and appear to go out of their way to avoid getting near people. Thus it seems a little premature to panic over the possibility of one cougar living somewhere in Pennsylvania.

42

So, I’ll add our experience in the rocky mountain area.

First, we have a lot of wildlife. I naively called the park service when we first lived here when we saw a mountain lion next to our home. They sent me a brochure ‘you live in mountain lion country’ and talked about people impinging on their land. It was a wake up call as to the area. Our kids in grade school were taught how to respond to mountain lions and bears if they saw them. They walked home from the bus stop daily about a mile.

So, for the past 25 years of living here I have seen several mountain lions roaming around day and night. I always assume they are around when I hike and I avoid being under cliffs. We have not seen as many coyotes. I never heard of a mountain lion attacking a horse. We have plenty of horses here in town. I have heard of them attacking and have seen them attack deer and llamas. The coyotes attack dogs and cats. So, no pet owners let their pets roam the neighborhood, which makes for pleasant walks for us. I’m more afraid of people and drunk drivers than the animals.

Bottom line, assume there are animals that roam. Watch your little ones. Teach them what to do if they are approached by an animal, if it seems sick, crazy, aggressive. Give them a cell phone or at least a whistle.
Bobcats can look very much like young mountain lions.

43

I live in a small town (35 miles west of Boston)–bears appear in town almost every year. They are usually looking for food. We also have coyotes. Plus, there have been reports of a bobcat.

44

A biker was killed by a cougar last month, not far from Seattle. The cat acted in an uncharacteristic way, chasing two bikers after they had scared it off ( or so they thought).

A few years ago, neighbors swore they saw a cougar in my neighborhood in the DC suburbs. Everyone said it was impossible, but we don’t really know what is possible and impossible anymore, not concerning animals. A bear had gotten onto the main campus of the NIH a few months later. And, coyotes are poised to enter South America. They have crossed the Panama Canal, and it will be the first time that a predator has “invaded” a new continent in 3 million years.

PA officials should take the idea of cougars seriously, even though it was probably something else.

45

I live in an urban area, but close to National Forest lands. (About 2.5 miles to the east.) There is arroyo (dry creek bed) that runs along the boundary of my property (and technically on my property since the city deeded it to the adjacent homeowners about 20 years ago. It’s a utility easement that cannot be developed). The arroyo goes from one city park east & behind my house to another city park .5 miles downhill to west. To the east of my house, past the park, it’s all single family houses on 1/4 acre lots. Very suburban area with lots of neatly trimmed lawns and decorative shade trees. Not at all rural. But that arroyo is a wild animal superhighway. I’ve had cougars, bobcats (so very cute!), coyotes, red foxes, black bear pass through in my yard. Not to mention the herds of mule deer (up to 13 at a time!) that eat my landscaping, garden & fruit trees, and bed down under my pine trees next to my house. I should mention I have 5-7 ft high cinderblock wall along my property line plus a 7.5 ft. high post & wire horse fence along my property that faces the arroyo. I still get wild animals–they just very casually walk up the very suburban street in front of my house and enter via my driveway & front yard. Even the cougar did that.

My rule: if the critters don’t bother me, I don’t bother them. I’ve fenced off my garden to minimize deer damage and I bring my cats indoors at night to prevent them becoming coyote chow. I don’t leave pet food outside because bears just love dog chow and I don’t want to encourage nuisance behaviors. I’ve only called animal control once and it because there was a decent sized rattlesnake which had moved in and I wanted it out of my yard.

I have a friend who has horses–5 of them, including a good sized Andalusian stallion. She stables her horses at night, not due to any cougar fears–though she lives near open space too, but because of coyotes harassing the horses.

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Could be cool to put up a wildlife camera in that arroyo, @WayOutWestMom. You’re so lucky to have a wildlife corridor adjacent to your property-- and the larger animals need it.

Bobcats are cute, but even cuter are bobkittens. I’ve only seen them two or three times, and they’re adorable.

47

Speaking of bears. When we moved to House1, baby kid had to walk to her new elementary school instead of taking a school bus. The first week of classes she brought home a flyer warning the parents not to leave kiddos unattended on school bus stops because black bears were spotted in the area eating fruit off trees. Kid said that she did not think it applied to her because she was walking to school. :slight_smile: We have acquaintances who periodically post videos of black bears pawing through their garbage… not too far from MSFT headquarters. Folks here learn quickly that wildlife does not like to leave when new developments come their way. Wildlife adapts to living next to humans and figures how to take advantage of stuff…

48

Why would a state agency do that? Most states seem to like tourism dollars. Releasing predators where unsuspecting tourists might run into them doesn’t sound like an effective plan to avoid bad press.

49

A 150 pound cougar was shot on Chicago’s near north side in 2008. I think some of the animals are just passing through. They don’t want to be there anymore that you want them in your neighborhood…

The coyotes in our area occasionally hunt in packs and can take down a white tailed deer.

50

Those marks on the horse are exactly how a cougar takes down larger prey. They sink their claws into the rear haunches and bite at the butt and back legs to bring it down to the ground, then use those jaws to break the neck. Elk is a regular part of their diet. A bucking horse would be tough to hold onto.

I met a guy who watched a cougar jump the 6 foot fence in his back yard with his 80 lb black lab in its mouth. They have been known to kill adult wolves. Awesome and very stealthy predators.

51

If this is indeed a mountain lion attacking horses, we’ll soon find out. People will put up infrared cameras, and the lion will be caught on film.

For your enjoyment, here’s some footage of a mountain lion mama with two adorable half-grown kittens. Cats are cats, whether big or small.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0086NRFdqwk

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Majestic cats!!!

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Just to update - from afar - but this is what I was sent…

To those who have FB, use Central PA Mountain Lion Sightings to keep updated. When I looked at that (I can some even without an account), plenty of those “sightings” are merely “screams” and can probably be dismissed. However, there are a fair number of folks saying they saw one near where this took place and it seems like they have a bit of evidence on this attack itself (look at postings July 23). It also says the Game Commission is taking it seriously (glad to read that) and trail cams, etc are being checked and set up.

The group that came to investigate is the Eastern Puma Research Network (I know absolutely nothing about them to know if they are “legit” or “questionable,” but they feel it is a cat attack.

So… what I think is going on is a mixture of stories along with some stretching akin to the telephone game. As a biggie, I think folks have missed one important detail about the state declaring mountain lions extinct. In reality they’ve declared an Eastern subspecies of mountain lion extinct. They’ve never said (that I’ve seen) that there are or can be no mountain lions in our state. They’ve even said there can be wandering western cats and/or released pets. Those, of course, could also be collared if that story from the past is true.

I suspect there is a cat in the Dillsburg area. Time will tell what happens to it or if photo evidence is ever obtained. If I lived in that area, I’d be cautious about our foal, esp, but anything that could be prey, esp if it attacked a horse. We live some miles away and it would have to go through small civilizations before it would get to us (and plenty of other livestock), so mine are still turned out at night (they prefer night and no flies or heat to days).

Hopefully there will be an update. Aside from the horse getting attacked, it’s kind of interesting to have something going on. In general, I’m a cat lover.

One small worry would be the rabies that is also in our area. I’d like to think if the cat were in the progression of rabies that it couldn’t/wouldn’t go for a horse, but if it thought the horse were easier than a deer - who knows. If in the progression, the fellow (most likely a male, right) won’t last long. Hopefully the horse was UTD with its vax. It’s a small worry, but one that comes to mind with our recent kill(s). None of the sightings have said anything was amiss with the cat they saw, so that’s a plus.

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Thanks, @Creekland. I enoy how you’re following this up as best one can. Plus, the interesting chat about how wild animals do enter our lives, even where not expected.

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I hopped over to the Central PA Mountain Lion Sightings page. If all those people are actually seeing a mountain lion, it would have to be a released pet. There’s no way a wild mountain lion that wandered all the way from Minnesota without being seen in intervening states would suddenly make himself visible to all those people.

Mountain lions are experts at not being seen. As I’ve mentioned, I live in an area with endemic mountain lions. Most people who spend time in mountain lion territory never see a mountain lion in their lifetime. A mountain lion sighting is a rare and precious thing here.

56

Yes, here also (Santa Monica Mountains). Rangers rarely see them unless they are monitoring the radio collars and know where they are. Rarely they are caught on home security cameras at night. So rare it makes the local news as one of those local interest stories.

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There was a confirmed mountain lion sighting in southern Michigan in the summer of 2017, and another in suburban Milwaukee in 2018. There have also been numerous unconfirmed reports of sightings in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky and West Virginia in 2017-2018. DNA tests on the mountain lion killed in Connecticut in 2011 showed that it was from a breeding population in the Dakotas. I don’t think it’s inconceivable that if there is a mountain lion in central Pennsylvania, it’s another young male dispersing from the nearest breeding population.

As you said yourself, mountain lions are experts at not being seen. But we know there have been confirmed sightings in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and more rarely in Illinois and Indiana. State wildlife officials tend to discount reported sightings which are often based on misidentification, e.g., of a bobcat, and once there’s one report, people tend to get excited, so there’s often a rash of unconfirmed reports. But generally state wildlife officials won’t confirm it unless they can get DNA evidence from scat or fur, or verifiable photographic evidence from a trailcam, a pretty high standard of proof. So why is it so unthinkable that a young male dispersing from the Dakotas would make it through Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio, and end up in central Pennsylvania? I think it’s at least plausible. Which is not to say that all those who claim to have seen it actually did.

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What’s unthinkable is that wily cat making his way all the way from South Dakota to Pennsylvania, and then all of a sudden forgetting how to be a mountain lion and showing himself everywhere.

59

Yes, that would also be another check in the column for it being a released pet going right alongside with it attacking a horse instead of the multiple deer we have.

Either that or something is wrong with it, but when I’ve seen the rabid animals their gait is off and no one has mentioned that about this guy. Even if he were just getting old, I can’t see him attacking a horse. There are baby rabbits (aka, still naive and easy to catch rabbits) this time of year.

The area he is in is a more populated (farming) area than most of PA’s wilderness though, so I suppose anything is still possible regarding sightings. I just think it’s most likely (if we were placing bets) that he’s a released pet who is accustomed to seeing people (and being seen). If this is true, I also think it could make him more dangerous since he doesn’t really know how to be a mountain lion - hence - why he could better belong in a zoo.

I guess it will depend upon what he does next. Does he slink back into oblivion and disappear perhaps up toward the Poconos (where it’s also wilderness and easier to hide)? Or do they find him?

60

I guess I’m not convinced all the claimed sightings are actual sightings. There are always lots of claimed sightings that turn out to be cases of mistaken identity or outright hoaxes. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a mountain lion out there. And all the claimed sightings don’t prove it’s an escaped or released pet rather than a young male from the Dakotas seeking new breeding territory. But once these guys get out of the Dakotas they usually don’t stick around in any one location for long, because they’re not finding anyone to breed with. That’s how one got as far as Connecticut, and others have been confirmed as far east as Kentucky, Tennessee, and southern Michigan, as well as quite a few in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula.

https://www.pennlive.com/wildaboutpa/2017/10/mountain_lions_in_pennsylvania.html