<p>Are there MT programs where the students are known for being particularly self-disciplined and focused like Olympic athletes? (I know of B’way professionals at the highest levels who live like that.)
Are there MT schools where this is the expectation and the reality, for the most part? Those of you associated with schools - are you satisfied with your MT students’ work/play ethic?</p>
<p>my son is a sophomore at Baldwin Wallace, and believe me, these kids are DISCIPLINED! They have ballet boot camp 2 mornings a week at 7 a.m., in addition to their very rigorous schedule that keeps them busy all day, with rehearsals at night. He loves it and is thriving!</p>
<p>At CCM it seems as if the students are expected to treat themselves like athletes. Every incoming Freshman has their vocal cords scoped to see if they have any nodes. This is no different than NCAA athletes having joint exams (especially knees.)</p>
<p>Of course there are Jazz, Tap and Ballet classes each day. A Pilates class is a curriculum requirement. But the real work is what is done in the gym on their own (limited) time. CCM expects their actors to be healthy, strong, and able to endure an 8-show-a-week career. If anyone eats right, and works out everyday (sometimes multiple times a day if you are in dance class two hours in the morning, lift weights an hour in the afternoon, then rehearse three hours in the evening) their body will respond and they will become fit. It is simple science. Any athletes core muscular structure is key to their longevity and success. This is especially true for the dancer/mover/singer.</p>
<p>My son works out a minimum of 5 days a week. Hell workout every day if he can. Most of that consists of weight training, core work and cardio. He had a lot of experience in competitive athletics as well as theatre growing up and he was already a work-out guy anyway. He had taken college-level weight training/body building classes before CCM. He was familiar with the gym. He likes the gym. That was not the case, however with most of his classmates.</p>
<p>In high school, the gym/weight room can be an intimidating place and treating yourself as an athlete is not stressed for arts folks. In some cases, there can be animosity or disdain between athletes and thespians, especially for young men. So exposure and experience in the weight room can have many negative even frightening connotations.</p>
<p>So my son just started herding CCM people to the gym and showing them how to workout. The UC weight facility is massive and awesome with trainers available to all students. My son found a few guys who committed to training. Some of the bigger ones got smaller and some of the smaller ones got bigger. All of them improved in flexibility strength and stamina.</p>
<p>Athletics are built on competition. There is your opponent, but you are also in competition with members of your own team. I listen to a lot of parents who are adamantly opposed to competition in theatre (and for youth theatre, which I am highly involved in, I agree.) But at the professional level, the competition is fierce. The chances of sustaining top-level professional performance work are lower than becoming a professional athlete.</p>
<p>CCM seems to have high expectations and then puts the responsibility on the actor. They have a lot of resources (speech therapists, physical therapists, trainers, classes, seminars, etc) but the individuals are expected to utilize them. I know, its a lot for an 18-year-old to do, but in 4 short years (sometimes less) theyll have to be at the top of their game not just on-stage, but more importantly in their personal lives.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to me that I’m not getting many responses. I have noted as I’m sure you all have, how fit and amazing current young pros are on B’way. No tooth pick arms, no pudgy tummies. Stunning, healthy voices. Saw Anything Goes with Sutton. Oh my word! You know these folks live like Olympic athletes in training, taking care to get sleep, exercise, and eat (mostly) healthy food. Maybe the Anything Goes dancers don’t need to work out when they are performing, but you know they did to get that job!
My impression is that many, many current MT students in college don’t have the disciplined mind set of the pros.
For the university people - how do schools figure out if a student will “fit in” with the atmosphere at your school? Do you try to consider the work ethic of the student? How can you tell?</p>
<p>I think possibly you are not getting many responses, because most MT programs- at least most of the ones that are discussed on this forum- are very rigorous programs by definition. The kids who can not hold up to the rigor generally fizzle out and leave the programs, either by choice or by cuts at a few of the schools. I know that at my own D’s program at PSU, they are pretty blunt about the realities of theater life after school. The program is very disciplined in that they are so busy all of time that they have time for little else. I know that outside of dancing several hours per day, regular classes and shows and rehearsals, my D is at the gym 5-6 times per week. She is very disciplined about her diet and weight, and about the only thing she does that is not in keeping with a healthy lifetstyle is not get enough sleep because there are not enough hours in the day. I think her schedule is probably very typical of most kids enrolled in competitive MT programs.</p>
<p>classicalbk - What exactly do you mean by:
“My impression is that many, many current MT students in college don’t have the disciplined mind set of the pros.”</p>
<p>I agree with takeitallin, but curious to hear your thoughts…</p>
<p>Was interested in this too…don’t know what college you are referring to, but if your S/D is attending that one, then maybe he/she needs to rethink their choice. My D (along with do-what-u-luvs D) are among a group of dedicated, hard working and VERY disciplined young men and women who take this opportunity very seriously. They know how much work it took to get where they are, even now, and they are going to do what they need to to stay competitive. I am sure that is the way it is with the majority of the kids that are now in a competitive program…</p>
<p>I’m confused by this thread. I can think of several really talented, extremely dedicated MTs that are fat and fabulous and were accepted into excellent programs or completed excellent programs and are working today. There will be many roles that will not come their way due to type but there will also be plenty that they can get that others cannot. Not unlike being too tall, short, blonde, white, etc. </p>
<p>Good theatre reflects life. It shouldn’t be just for those that spend extra time at the gym right? Maybe I’m misunderstanding this thread but I am puzzled by it.</p>
<p>classicalbk…I have to agree with what some others wrote above. The sheer nature of most BFA in MT programs is such that it is a very rigorous schedule that requires a great deal of discipline to do for the four years. There is very little free time and most waking hours are devoted to the discipline of what the program entails. It is not like regular college hours and not like free weekends and so on. Even though my kid went to college in NYC, she did not have time to truly take advantage of NYC that much (though more than someone who doesn’t live there). It truly takes a strong work ethic to do these programs. As well, for BFA programs in schools that require some academics and where it is a challenging academic setting, it makes for a very full life requiring lots of devotion and time management. Unless a kid loves it, they won’t be able to last. </p>
<p>This was all fine by my kid but it is not for all kids and so those contemplating a BFA program really need to understand what the lifestyle will be like. For my kid, she was busy 24/7 even in high school and this was like that but even MORE. It was good prep for her professional life that she is now leading. She really does work almost 7 days and 7 nights now that she is out of college with just a little social time, but not a lot. As she has many different jobs, and a lot of responsibilities, she has to discipline herself to schedule every day to get a lot done. She also tries to fit in the gym as much as she can (and can’t fit it in as much as she wants to certain weeks) as it is very important to her. So, the BFA routine was good practice because her life is just as full now that she works professionally. It is not like she has a five day a week job 9 to 5! She may be out of her BFA program but she is just as busy if not more (if that is possible). </p>
<p>A BFA degree program is a professional degree program and really has lots in common with a professional routine of sorts. It is not a regular college experience (not that that is a cake walk at some schools either!)</p>
<p>Good point, halflokum. Just because someone is “fat and fabulous”, doesn’t mean they are slackers!</p>
<p>Where is the “like” button for soozievt’s post!?!</p>
<p>You also asked how these programs can tell if applicants have the requisite work ethic to be able to handle the rigors and demands of a BFA program. I don’t run a college program or work in admissions but I would imagine this is very important for such programs to evaluate beyond the artistic skill set. It is not enough to be a good singer, dancer, and actor if you can’t hack the demands of the BFA program. The proper work ethic is essential or a student will not last in such a program. I assume college MT programs do look into this. Some ways to evaluate that would be letters of recommendation, personal qualities that come across in essays and interviews, and frankly, academic grades and rigor of high school curriculum. If I were admitting a BFA student, I would care about their grades and how rigorous of a curriculum and EC schedule they were able to handle successfully in high school. Some people think, “well, what does it matter what they got in math or history if they are going to study MT?” but the point is, grades and such can indicate work ethic as a student. A MT student is a student after all and needs to be able to be a very motivated and disciplined student and not merely talented in order to study in a BFA program. That is why the audition does not count 100% of the admissions decision at most BFA programs and it shouldn’t. It is college admissions and not casting. The MT student has to be able to succeed in a rigorous learning environment. Not everyone is cut out for that even if talented. When someone applies to a BFA program, they not only audition but submit recommendations, essays, grades, EC achievements, and possibly interview and so other factors are weighed and so hopefully there is a way to ascertain work ethic because the audition itself doesn’t show that. But it DOES matter.</p>
<p>Oh dear, not meaning to insult anyone about weight. Mostly concerned about students staying up late (not to study!) and not taking care of themselves. Soozievt’s daughter’s life is busy and amazing and I’d think all MT students would do as she does and do their best to be fit, well-nourished and rested so they can keep up and have long, fabulous careers. But reports from other parents and actors from various well-known programs (not any one school) leave me perplexed. I’m glad to hear the stories here on CC of dedicated MT students using their time well and taking advantage of the gift they’ve been given to study their craft to the fullest.</p>
<p>classicalbk, there are likely some kids who do what you mention but then they don’t last long in a BFA program. Some who enter do not realize what a BFA program life entails and find it is not for them. That is why I think it is very important when I talk to kids contemplating a BFA path or who are unsure if they want a BA or a BFA, to fully understand the lifestyle that a BFA program will entail. I’m not saying my kid did not have fun in college but the amount of free time was very limited and less than a student would have in a BA degree program generally speaking (or at least in class hours alone). The majority of kids who enter a BFA degree program do make it through and so were appropriate candidates. I would not worry about this too much as you know your D and her strong work ethic and she has done professional work to boot and she will handle it and most of her cohorts will too but some won’t. I don’t know if your D is still planning to enter her BFA program this fall after the year deferral but that school also has academic selectivity to be admitted and so for the most part, the students in that program have the work ethic to handle it all. </p>
<p>I think my D’s BFA program prepared her well for what is now the rigors of a professional performing artist’s life in NYC.</p>
<p>About staying up late…the kids who keep these intense BFA schedules with classes all day and rehearsals at night and homework on top of that, learn pretty quickly that they can’t stay up to all hours. They still likely don’t get enough sleep but can’t party all night long with some others at the school. This is true for athletes too. My other kid went to an Ivy League school with challenging academics but was also on the ski team. During the ski season, two weekdays per week, she had to be in a van at 6 AM to go to ski training out of state before going to classes in the afternoons back at school and then had to go away all weekend every weekend and get up at 6:30 AM on weekend days and be physically active (and freeze) and still keep up with homework when she got back to campus. She and her teammates knew they could not stay up to all hours and keep that going. So they discipline themselves to adjust to this kind of routine but that is not hard to do when you are passionate about what you are doing. The difference is that mom and dad are no longer setting these limits and the kids learn what they have to do to make it all work out in terms of sleeping, training, homework, artistic prep, laundry, eating, and so on.</p>
<p>I obviously don’t know about colleges and the athletic rigor as my daughter is applying right now as a HS senior. But I certainly have seen the advantages of being a well trained athlete for the rigor of MT and performing in general. Myd aughter is a member of one of the top ranked high school performing show choirs in the country, and they work their butts off, especially as they get towards competition season. In fact, because they do show choir they are exempted from their PE requirement in HS because they work out so hard in rehearsals. My daughter and her show choir friends are in shape! So I woudl imaging it will only get more intense in a college MT program.</p>
<p>My high school senior son is currently going through the recruiting process for college soccer. I would very comfortably compare his dedication to his sport to what my D did (and continues to do) for MT. Both children were very focused and knew what they wanted out of college by the time they were seniors. By senior year, we no longer had to set limits for them, because they realized that in order to get where they wanted to, they had to start disciplining themselves. Both started skipping social events in order to practice/rehearse to improve their skills. Both started watching their diets and taking care of their bodies, as they realized that it was a necessary part of being successful in their chosen area. Both started a regimen of physical exercise appropriate to their craft, so that they would be competitive in that craft. In other words, both realized that in order to fulfill their dreams, they had to become very disciplined and stick to a regimen. My D continued to stick to this regimen when she entered college, and as a college senior now, she works hard to maintain her craft and to get everything possible out of her program. I would say that she has worked every bit as hard as my has to become a competitive athlete. Neither one of them is perfect, and occasionally still will stay out too late, or maybe have a bad week for taking care of themselves. But overall, they work very hard to get where they want to be. It’s really all about setting goals, and knowing what you want from life, and what you are willing to give up to get there. From observing the many MT friends and acquaintances we have met along the way, the behavior my kids have displayed is not unusual. Those who are successful have made the decision to live their lives a certain way in order to succeed. Those who are not willing to dedicate themselves to their craft are not likely to last. It seems as if MT programs are very good at discerning who is cut out to do this, as overall, it seems their is much more success than failure in MTprograms.</p>
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<p>I know hundreds of actors, and even a few Olympic athletes, and, for the most part, their training is not really anything alike. The regimen that many/most Olympic athletes have to maintain is much more strict, and carefully followed, than any actor I know. As for kids in BFA programs, they have to be prepared for a rigorous schedule but the reality is that you will find some who are more committed than others, as you will in any kind of college program. No different than in the professional world where you’ll find some who go to the gym daily, don’t smoke, eat properly, get a good amount of sleep, etc., and then others who maybe work out once a week, smoke, eat McDonalds brought in during two show days because it’s the closest fast food to the theatre, and then are out for drinks at night after every show. Many young actors get into bad habits if their first professional show is a tour. It’s too easy to get into bad habits and difficult not to hang out with the cast every night after the show, because touring can be lonely if you’re not one of the gang.</p>
<p>Work ethic is important. It’s something that is difficult to teach but if an actor has a poor work ethic, their ability to book work is going to be seriously compromised.</p>
<p>Given the reported high rates of smoking among Broadway dancers I’m guessing that while MTs are ultra fit, most don’t retain Olympic-level fitness.</p>
<p>Our D spends at least an hour at the university gym every day in addition to dance classes, so her fitness level is certainly rising in college, as I assume is true in most top programs.</p>
<p>The title of the OP also brought to mind a related thread on injury…</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1227138-health-injury-selling-your-body.html?highlight=injury[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1227138-health-injury-selling-your-body.html?highlight=injury</a></p>
<p>I think the emphasis on the “Broadway Bod” is becoming more apparent in most rigorous BFA programs. I would by no means say that I personally train like an Olympic Athlete (who has the time when you do 15 studio credits a week? THAT’S my Olympic-style training) but I go to the gym 6/7 days typically. Coastal actually just built a HUGE new Student Convocation Center with a beautiful new state of the art equipment and facilities. You see theatre students in there at pretty much all hours of the day, a few of whom are even instructors- my roommate teaches Zumba! But I would expect the same at pretty much any BFA program- not just a push for better athletic fitness, but overall well being (getting enough sleep, healthy eating habits, etc.). </p>
<p>Whether a student chooses to take advantage of their resources is up to them, and I’m sure there are some people at even the top top TOP programs who don’t train like athletes for whatever reason. I am hoping to take this “training” and turn it into a routine that will work for me when I graduate so I could potentially do 8 shows a week. Drive and dedication are not gifted to students or strictly enforced by a department- even if it were, people could just give up when they go into the “real world”. The goal is use this time we are given in college to take permanent steps towards a healthy career and long life.</p>