Oops timed out. So, if she was burglarized and they stole stuff but she wasnt there, I think thats theft and burglary. If she was home and the items were taken from her or she was threatened, she was robbed. If she was burglarized but they didnt take anything, there was no theft. But if she was robbed there was a theft, because they took something from her. Am not an attorney so this may not be exactly right. Any attorney who can help clarify-- feel free.
I assume this has been posted… but 11 year old murders his 8 year old sister with a shot gun.
The parents should absolutely also be charged with murder.
Also, I adore when people say they could kill an intruder. Have you ever talked to people that have taken a life, even justifiably? It haunts you. And if it doesn’t, I’m concerned. Even all of my military family- who were literally trained to kill- have deep-seated issues around the deaths at their hands.
@romanigypsyeyes … How I feel about taking a life completely depends on the circumstances. If an intruder enters our home and it’s just the two of us present I’d consider many different options including deadly force, but I doubt that would be my first reaction. If my wife and children are present, I’m not going to take the time to try and ascertain the intruder’s intentions. The very presence of that intruder puts at risk the people I treasure more than anything else on this Earth, and I would drop the intruder like 3rd period French and not question the decision for one second.
Have you ever actually taken a life? I don’t doubt what romani says, that it haunts you, even if it was justified.
Ditto.
And my kids and wife would drop the intruder probably faster than I would. They would not even take the risk of getting harmed by the intruder, if they know I am not in the house.
This is why when entering my house, each person calls out that they are home and who it is. No family members enter without presenting themselves. If you have guns in the house and people trained to use them for protection, you must have systems in place. It is a pain at 2 AM to be woken up, but better that than an accident.
Actually, if a person meant to do me or my family harm, it would be a relief, not a haunt. The person deserves what he gets if he attacks my family or me and if he enters our house or property without an invite. Would drop him like a hot rock and never look back.
But the premise really is a no brainer in my book - would I rather risk feeling some regret and a bit haunted later on by killing an intruder / criminal or would I rather be the human who gets killed? Who the heck chooses the option of being the one getting his butt kicked? No one I know that is for sure. Yep, a no brainer - a little haunting, if it occurs afterwards, is definitely preferable to my own or my family’s death. No contest there.
Yes, I once owned an airplane with ex-militray general, and we flew a lot together all over the country. We had several of these discussions in the cockpit. He said with a straight face that it is not the ones who are trying to kill or harm you that you regret; it is the ones who get in the way and and who are inadvertently harmed. He said the ones out to get you you remember as saving your own life, and thus it is actually a rewarding memory in a morbid kind of way because the other option is much worse. Similar concept here when defending one’s home, life and family; the alternative is much more haunting to think about.
Having been robbed at gunpoint on the street, and having my home robbed another time, if I caught someone in my house stealing from me, I’d gladly shoot, too.
Nothing like having a teenage punk putting a gun to your head to realign your political views… until that incident I was a gun control nut.
I was kidnapped at knife point by a guy who said he was going to kill me. After living through that, the concern over a possible future haunting seems almost trivial to me.
Were these tragic incidents with someone known to you or a stranger?
@romanigypsyeyes Just for clarification, the 11 year old shooter was a neighbor, not brother, of the victim.
@LasMa … I served 20 years in the military and flew a combat aircraft, so yes I have been directly involved in the death of multiple enemy combatants. All of those deaths were justified, and it doesn’t haunt me whatsoever. I can understand people who have had to take a life in a more “face to face” situation or a non-military situation having different feelings though.
None of that changes what I said in the previous post. If someone puts my family at risk I wouldn’t hesitate to use deadly force and would never doubt that decision. If I hesitated for any reason and a member of my family was hurt or killed by an intruder…that’s a decision I would regret forever and would never forgive myself for making.
That’s why I differentiated how I’d react in the different circumstances. If I’m the only one potentially in harm’s way at that moment I have a lot more viable options.
I’d give my life in a heartbeat to save or protect my family, and I’d absolutely use deadly force against anyone who threatens them. I’d be concerned about anyone who wouldn’t do the same for their family. :-/
I’m not disputing what you say about protecting your family. I just think it’s awfully easy to say you wouldn’t be haunted after. You don’t know.
NB – Haunted is not the same as regret.
Wolverine, my concern in your situation is not the burglars who break into your home, but the innocent strangers who might approach your house, and who you might mistake for evil doers. A drunk guy blundering into the wrong door doesn’t deserve to be shot, nor does someone knocking on your door late at night looking for help after an accident. Yet innocent strangers get mowed down by trigger-happy homeowners with the attitude that anyone who shows up is a danger.
I would hate to live in a fortress where all comers must loudly identify themselves or risk getting shot. Your kid comes home with the flu or after a bad breakup or after curfew and neglects to speak up, and you are armed and might shoot them? “Nut” isn’t a strong enough word.
The “haunting” idea reminds me of arguments against abortion, which is ironic because I assume most hard core gun control advocates are pro choice, but maybe not.
@CardinalFang … We keep our doors locked, even when we’re home. No drunks are going to blunder through our door, nor am I going to use deadly force against someone on my porch on the other side of a locked door. Does that happen sometime? Yes, unfortunately it does…but that’s not the situation I presented. If someone has made it inside my house it’s because they’ve broken into it, and if my family is present I’m not going to spend time trying to research how or why the intruder is there. The safety and welfare of my family comes first.
@LasMa … Haunted or regret, I’m not worried about the semantics either way. If I did have either, I’d feel perfectly comfortable discussing those feelings with my family…that I protected. If others choose to hesitate or act differently in the same situation that’s their prerogative, and they’ll have to live with whatever the consequences of their actions might be. I pray none of us find ourselves in the situation and ever have to find out.
As a sidenote to the posts about mass killings elsewhere - and in particular the misleading one about Norway - remember that Anders Breivik bought his high capacity magazines from the US by mail. Norway doesn’t allow high capacity magazines. We exported mass death.
If Norway doesn’t allow them, how did he get them?
Sorry for your experience, and glad you made it through.
I admit that I was very ignorant when I first joined my CCP training class. Of the 30 people in the class, about 7 or 8 were women (higher percentage are women now) and everyone of them was there because they were physically assaulted. Before that class, it just did not occur to me how ineffective and useless a restraining order was in saving a life - all these women got assaulted when active restraining orders were in place.
Realizing how useless the restraining order was, they decided that instead of being a sitting target with just a whistle and pepper spray to fully take their personal safety into their own hands. They took responsibility for their own lives.
It was amazing to see how happy they became over the next couple years. A couple of them even successfully stopped a second attack with their gun, and all no longer had the fear of being in their homes etc. Now, that is what I call empowering. And for the ones with kids, it was clearly the difference that made their quality of life much better. They were not shy in pointing out that it was doubly horrendous in such a situation knowing that they could not defend their kids. They changed that, and it was definitely a change for the better.
Maybe we could make the gun license requirements similar to the pilot license requirements. If your background check shows you were EVER on any prescription anti-anxiety or anti-depressive medication you are on a permanent no fly/no gun list. So, back ground checks for guns should include the same in-depth screening into ALL medical history. None of this privacy stuff.
We could even take it step further. If someone wants a prescription for these ‘no fly’ meds the pharmacy has to check whether or not they have a registered gun. If they do, no meds until gun is surrendered. Or, simply enter the home with a search warrant and confiscate the guns while simultaneously bringing the prescription meds.
The above is said with only slight sarcasm…
No one in power is arguing to take that empowerment away from them.
Could they have obtained their guns for protection under a federal expanded background check law? Under a law that closed the three-day loophole for background checks? If not, why not?
There's no rational argument against these modest attempts to prevent guns from being purchased by miscreants.
For a lot of women killed by someone they knew, it's true that the restraining order didn't work. Since the NRA is so keen on helping them protect themselves, why does it fight including people convicted of domestic abuse from being able to purchase guns?
Could it be the NRA doesn't give one whit about protecting anyone.....except the sales and profits of gun manufacturers and sellers. That's why the answer to the problem of gun violence is always more guns. Kids killing kids, dead students and moviegoers..... just collateral damage to be ignored.