Multiple Shootings at Oregon's Umpqua Community College

And the beat goes on.

Gun control advocates really need to ask themselves a very serious question - if your numbers are so demonstrative of what is happening and the answer is so easy to reduce the incidence of accidents and deaths by guns, then why are not state legislatures and Congress clamoring to your side of the argument with most making it easier for increased gun ownership by individuals? Could it be that all these people are working class bureaucrats who are easily bought off? And why is the public also in favor of increased gun ownership?

The reason is the same reason that when I saw this post I just shook my head and waited to see if someone caught the obvious problem relative to my post. This is also another perfect example of how the gun control advocates lose the argument on public panels.

If one read my post #1217, I discuss the issue of CCPs and guns licensed to those people - just keep that in mind.

As actuaries explain all the time, you cannot take a mass data set that contain different elements and then say you are comparing equivalent criteria using one number. That would be an actuarial 101 mistake.

Per capita, Wyoming is a much more hunting intensive state. The higher accidental discharge rate of Wyoming includes and is dominated by hunting-related accidental discharge of rifles and shotguns in an outdoors environment. The higher amount of the handling of these particular weapons, the higher the chances and of an accidental discharge, and subsequently the higher number. Basically, the more one loads and unloads a weapon, packs bullets and handles a gun in general, the higher the chances of an accident occurring - no statistical mystery there.)

Furthermore, a lot of these accidental discharges are among professional hunters and longtime users of weapons simply because the hunting environment means handling guns for long periods of time. It is a risk hunters accept.

Therefore, no additional training of ALL gun owners will affect these accidents because the higher rate in WY are statistically derived from a specific subset of long gun users and hunters.

Specific to my post, the issue had to to do with the issue of CCP holders and the guns licensed to them and accidental discharges. And, outside of the hunting long gun subset, there is no higher incidence of kids and accidental discharges with handguns, as compared to New York or anywhere else. These accidental discharges with handguns and kids are spread across all states.

(I do not know the number, but I would venture the number of accidental discharges involving long guns among kids in WY is higher simply because many more kids handle long guns on a regular basis. I also venture that the number of accidental discharge rates are higher for ALL major hunting states specifically because of long guns / hunting accidents.)

But here is where advocates lose the argument completely - Wyoming has the highest gun ownership rate in the country (63% of households), yet in 2010, the entire state had only 5 murders that were committed with guns. Check out NY and even CA and NJ on your own and see the multiples higher murder rate using guns per 100,000. Now, figure out which state you are most likely to shot by someone on purpose during the commission of a crime, the state with fewer guns or more guns per capita?

Bottom line, important to compare apples and apples, not apples and oranges. My post #1217 dealt with CCP background check systems and education and training licensing procedures in response to the call for increased education and training for ALL gun owners. I repeat again, for CCP holders across states, there is no difference in accident rate involving the guns CCP holders are licensed to carry.

Thus, the question still remains, if there is no difference with CCP holders’ accident rates between the states with intensive ownership hurdles and massive education and training, as compared to states with lesser education and training, then what is the point of some huge national government program, as just having more education and training have not shown to reduce accident rates? (But that is not a statistical mystery either, as there is a base accident rate for everything, and it is very possible, given the data, that we may at that point with gun accident discharge rates).

A little bit of analytical thinking goes a long way - something Google does not provide. Yep, you gotta love numbers.

yawn…

Since the figures above (post 1221) have no references provided and are presented as accurate, lets see… here’s a table with the deaths by firearm per 100,000 http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-death-rate-per-100000/

Year: 2013
NY: 4.2 per 100,000
Wyoming 16.7 per 100,000

Oh, and didn’t AW try to compare NJ and CA?
Lets see… CA rate is 7.7 and NJ is 5.7

Yep, ya gotta love the numbers.

Yawn.

Those are the same stats (1218 and 1223) reported by CF (with the reference provided). It makes no difference why these rates are higher. In fact, suggests carelessness on the part of hunters if thats what truly contributes to the higher death rate in WY

That’s the wrong question.

Figure out in which state you are more likely to die from a bullet wound, the state with fewer guns per capita, or the state with more guns per capita.

Interesting footnote on that very helpful table on ICD-10 codes. I wonder if this new and more granular medical coding standard will provide better data for research on gun injuries and deaths.

http://www.healthcaredive.com/news/the-16-most-absurd-icd-10-codes/285737/#.VjOWegyu-WY.mailto

http://www.usfhealthonline.com/resources/healthcare/new-and-improved-10-hysterical-icd-10-codes/#.VjfwbLerT-s

http://exclusive.multibriefs.com/content/17-specific-bizarre-icd-10-codes/healthcare-administration

UH OH!! A CC DIAGNOSIS IN THE ICD-10: **10. Z62.1 Parental overprotection **

Agreed. The beat goes on for CCP holders.

One thing that is for sure is for every shooting or accident posters list on this thread, there is an alternate situation where CCP holders save themselves or others. As with anything, there are analytical trade-offs, which must be calculated. And this is where advocates lose when telling others they are better of defenseless and standing there and being harmed, while waiting for police.

This guy was an idiot (well. what criminal isn’t on a fundamental level) using paintball gun, and paid for his life with it. No charges against this shooter.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/71/1066054/robber-holding-paintball-gun-killed-store-customer-police-say

One thing good about CCP holders is if they misuse their firearms they get charged, lose their permit and lose their right to own guns - this happened recently to a lady in Michigan, I believe. This is unlike a criminal who can shoot at someone and then when he gets out of jail just goes and gets another gun illegally and is never held stopped, by any the law, in having a weapon.

Agreed. Another nonsensical gun control push goes down the drain.

Hint - if you are going to push for more gun control, at least have the wherewithal to tie the measures to the actual situations one is using to sell the measures. What was really silly here is that nothing that was proposed as new gun control measures would have stopped any of the examples used by the advocates. Hmm… the public realized it is was a scheme. No kidding. Could not even find relevant examples to use to support the measures outlined.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/03/bloomberg-mcauliffe-fail-take-virginia-senate/

Or the idiot with a gun, instead of waiting for police to show up, ends up dead.

About all I can say is if gun owners are going to be so stupid they get what they deserve.

Tbh, I hope they’ll keep killing themselves off. The fewer gun owners the better for the rest of us.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=37164364&nid=148&title=millcreek-homeowner-unaware-intruder-had-gun-until-shots-fired-police-say&fm=home_page&s_cid=topstory

Agreed. Another set of lives lost to thugs for whom no gun control law can stop them from getting a weapon. Therefore, leaving them open to hurt whomever they want, until police arrive.

Given the fact that none of these thug guys or gals go through background checks of any sort, I always wonder where the clamor is for making sure these thugs can never get weapons and wiping out 8,000 young black people every year.

http://www.newser.com/story/215520/chicago-violence-takes-aspiring-models-life.html

http://www.newser.com/story/212367/chicago-has-deadliest-day-since-2003.html

Oh yeah, I forgot, Chicago is virtually a gun-free zone, so I must not be reading the above correctly because gun-free zones reduce chances of being killed by gunfire according to gun control advocates. The logical question - does the data support their theory? Anyone know how many mass shootings and other major multiple assaults occur in known gun-allowed zones?

Gun beats knife. Well, duh! Too bad five students had to be hurt before the stabber was stopped.

http://news.yahoo.com/5-stabbed-suspect-killed-california-college-174940688.html

And please do not write about gun-free zones and getting stabbed is better than shot - that argument is old and frankly, weird, as if people are OK getting hurt in any form other than a gun. In reality, students here are just lucky this person did not have a gun.

Sorry, but there were no victim fatalities in the stabbing incident. I bet their parents are very happy the assailant had a knife instead of a gun.

I cannot recall a mass gun incident were no victims ended up dead.

Why is the argument old? If the attacker had a gun, 5 people would be dead. More, actually. One guy fended the attacker off with a ladder. Wouldn’t have worked if the attacker had a gun. People keep making the argument because it is true.

To quote you…

This jerk-ola had an AK-47. Forced the airport to stop landings for a while. Lovely. http://www.businessinsider.com/man-involved-in-a-san-diego-shooting-that-forced-local-flights-to-be-diverted-has-been-captured-2015-11

http://ktar.com/story/740970/report-man-shooting-with-rifle-shuts-down-san-diego-neighborhood/

Whatever arguments you make for the safety owning a gun gives you, when the newspaper story is that three people in Florida were shot in a Cracker Barrel when man with a concealed weapon dropped it on the floor, we’ve just gone too far. Three innocent people getting shot by a klutz in a Cracker Barrel accident is just Too Much.

^ why this idiot isn’t being charged with reckless endangerment is beyond me. I hope the people who were injured sue the bejessus out of him and he’s left with nothing.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/deadline-miami/article42190050.html#storylink=cpy

So do I understand that no law was broken here?!?!