<p>Musmom2- What you posted is what I suspected would be the case. But my question for you is - did your son go in to the LAC as a prospective athlete on either the basketball or baseball teams? Had he met with the coaches who had put in a word for him with admissions? Or was he just hoping to walk on unannounced as it were? In other words, did he have to disappoint anyone (beyond himself) when he realized he would not be able to play both music and sports.</p>
<p>I agree about dreams and all that, and it’s pretty funny how people will go on about their dreams, get the degree, then 4 years later deeply regret what they did. We know that almost no good composers ever went to university for it. One of my good friends won a major composition competition in europe when he was 16. He’s gotten like 2 big commissions and that’s it. Just remember that it’s fine to be noble and not care about money, but just make sure that you really DON’T care about money before you go into it. It’s quite impressive how quickly people will regret their decision when suddenly there has to be a decision between food and shelter.</p>
<p>Vieuxtemps…in another post, you say you go to a major conservatory. Clearly you have made a decision to study in an arts related area…and that is wonderful, in my opinion. So…I have to ask you…why does it seem you are being so critical of others who want to do the same?</p>
<p>I’m not critical of anyone who wants to study music, I’m just trying to warn people that they should really, really immerse themselves in that environment before they pull the trigger. It’s great while you’re there for 4 years, but you might eventually regret having missed out on a lot of stuff that other college kids don’t miss out on.</p>
<p>In the case of this poster, if I were him, I’d go to a university with a great composition department. Play sports, be busy, and do composition privately. Not only will that allow him to do what he wants, but it’s also how many great composers studied. You just have to take way too many classes which really will not have a use for you later on.</p>
<p>Thumper, the other thing I want people to know that if you’re a great performer, conservatories and good music programs at Uni will make you take a lot of music courses and honestly, for a good performer, a lot of that theory/musicianship and all that other stuff really is quite useless. It’s horrible to say but that’s what I and most of my friends have found. It would be so much better to study exactly what you want and to focus on performance.</p>
<p>Actually, a lot of musicians attend four-year colleges…Leonard Bernstein and Yo Yo Ma went to Harvard. Bernstein studied composing there. John Williams went to UCLA. There are countless others.<br>
If your kid is good enough to be recruited and wants to spend the time playing sports in college, it’s a great way to get into the college of his choice (which should probably be one with a great composition teacher nearby or on faculty).<br>
He will have to do an academic major anyway…and there is no reason why that can’t be music. It would be just as difficult if he wanted to play sports and major in a highly demanding field such as engineering or premed.
As far as playing in ensembles go…there are a lot of performing ensembles at most colleges. He’ll just have to choose one that fits his very busy schedule.<br>
He’s a HS junior…I wouldn’t shut any doors at this point. My kid found that what he wanted changed as he went through the whole application process. I’d put him on the recruitment list and see what happens. He can always decide not to go ahead with it later. I find these things do sort themselves out.</p>
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<p>And again I say…most music majors do NOT get to pick the ensemble. They are ASSIGNED to an ensemble. </p>
<p>Does anyone know of a place where music majors can pick the ensemble they wish to play in?</p>
<p>Hi Thumper! From our research, we found that most colleges that do not have really competitive music departments allow one to choose ensembles…you can play in the orchestra or the wind ensemble or the band or chamber groups. It’s just the colleges with very serious music departments that audition kids for groups. So, places like Brown, Stanford, etc. welcome musicians in whatever ensemble they choose (unless there is a huge number of players for certain sections, which is usually unlikely). Places like UCLA and USC are exactly what you are describing. In fact, if you are not a music major, it’s very difficult to get into the ensembles!</p>
<p>Symphony mom: You’ve got the right idea and the best attitude I’ve seen so far. YoYo Ma is one of the examples I love to use in these discussions. I think a kid as talented as the one in question, where he’s good at baseball AND music, should use it wisely. If he could get into a great D2 or D3 school on a free ride and find one with a great composing teacher, then he couldn’t possibly get a better deal.</p>
<p>SpiritManager: No, my DS did not really go as a prospective athlete. Coaches of both sports had seen him play, but no promises (by either them or him) were made. As a younger high schooler he had been to both basketball and baseball summer camps at the school, and had talked to both when he was a Sr. There was no need for coaches to put in a word for him with admissions. He chose the school he is attending primarily because of a particular piano prof who he really wanted to study with. Initially he was disappointed that he couldn’t do both, but realized his piano practice time was more important to him. He has made peace with no longer being “an athlete” and feels he is in a good place for him right now. I agree with symphonymom above that he should continue to do both for the time being and not shut any doors. Be advised that kids I know who have gone on to play sports in college say it’s almost like a full time job by the time you total up the hours of formal practice, weight training, team meetings, games, travel to away games etc. These don’t necessarily end (other than the obvious games and travel)when the season of your sport does. Good luck, enjoy the ride-things will work out!</p>
<p>thumper, </p>
<p>My daughter has had no trouble moving back and forth between the Orchestra and the Chamber Orchestra at Oberlin. They meet on different days and times and some semesters her schedule works out better with one than the other. The school looks at both groups as equal and does not try to steer the best players toward one or the other. In fact, they try to see to it that everyone has at least a year in each one.</p>
<p>BassDad - I just looked at the Oberlin baseball recruiting questionnaire. They actually ask if you’re applying to the Conservatory of Music! At least they’d take him with their eyes wide open…</p>
<p>Thanks for the replies about orchestra seatings. In our experiences (two kids, grad and undergrad) the assignments were made and the kids went. Of course, my kids wouldn’t have dreamed of scheduling anything else during a music ensemble rehearsal…least of all anything related to sports:)</p>
<p>symphonymom wrote: <actually, a=“” lot=“” of=“” musicians=“” attend=“” four-year=“” colleges…leonard=“” bernstein=“” and=“” yo=“” ma=“” went=“” to=“” harvard.=“” studied=“” composing=“” there.=“” john=“” williams=“” ucla.=“” there=“” are=“” countless=“” others.=“”></actually,></p>
<p>We are friends with a musician with dual science degrees from an Ivy, in the same discipline as her parents. Secured work in her field, published a few papers. She hated it. She was an accomplished performer (competition wins, orchestral appearances) and wanted to pursue performance as an undergrad, yet was forced to the sciences by her parents. </p>
<p>She bagged the science, went back to a top grad school, placed in a couple of national competitions, got a GPD fellowship, an additional prestigious fellowship beyond that and is making a professional career. She’s happy as a clam now.</p>
<p>Could she have been in the same place earlier? She herself cannot say.</p>
<p>Life is a series of choices. The road has many forks. And many go to their graves still mumbling “If only…”</p>
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<p>I absolutely agree that there is more than one path! However, I just wish to clarify that all those mentioned here also attended conservatories. Bernstein went on to Curtis. Yo Yo Ma studied at Juilliard (before Harvard, I think, but I’m not sure.) And John Williams also attended Juilliard. I can’t find any evidence that John Williams ever actually earned a degree anywhere. His official bio only says that he “attended” a couple places, and earned 14 “honorary degrees”.</p>
<p>My S’s primary teacher never earned a degree. (Dropped out of college to take a job.) He emphasized that his path was NOT one he would recommend to any of his students. I think the classical world has become much more competitive recently, so when looking at paths, it helps to look at recent events. I think most students getting jobs these days are getting music performance degrees.</p>
<p>I think that composing takes a lot of time, and creative energy. It isn’t something you can do well on the side, so to speak.</p>
<p>Our daughter loves theater, but gave it up as a senior in high school: it was clear she had to make a choice. As a student matures, there are also a lot of rehearsals of works composed, time taken up putting scores on Finale, printing parts, and so on.</p>
<p>I think that high school composers should be quite attractive to colleges, but will let you know in a few months! I do know that our daughter’s focus has payed off with conservatories so far, in preliminaries anyway.</p>
<p>Two days ago, we were at a rehearsal at a local college, where a professional ensemble is playing one of her pieces (and paid her $400, won’t pay for much, but it’s money). There was a discussion of the financial side to being a composer. The other composer present told me that he is able to make a living and support his small family with teaching and commissions. One of the musicians, who also composes, had a different take. The chances of making a living as an athlete seem a lot more remote, however, unless your son is a PE major and teaches.</p>
<p>There are many teaching opportunities at the post-secondary level for composers. But, to attain that kind of success, it would take focus and commitment, I guess, and doing sports while “composing on his own time” might prevent that.</p>
<p>The real question might be, which passion does he really want to follow. I mean, it might sound corny, but if he “followed his heart”, rather than a strategy for getting in (meaning signing up for sports recruitment), would it be music? It sounds like he loves it.</p>
<p>We all know that making a living often has little relationship to college majors. Music majors can end up doing all sorts of things…but doing what they love for 4 years is something that will last a lifetime. Unless he loves baseball more…It’s hard, but at this stage of the game, the way our culture works, the kids really do have to start choosing…</p>
<p>Interesting discussion. S’s longest essay was about having worked his way through just about every sport in existence (football, soccer, hockey, fencing, lacrosse, baseball), then finding his niche in rowing and an excellent men and boys choir almost simultaneously at age 10. He was able to row and sing for a couple of years, but had to drop rowing when theater overlapped. So it’s tough. But the camaraderie of singing with other people and in doing theater is his “sport”–it’s just that he misses the exercise factor. He’s lucky enough to to have inherited genes that will keep him slim forever (not mine, sigh), but that doesn’t mean he’ll be healthy. I was thrilled last night when he asked if he could join a gym (18th birthday present).</p>
<p>I imagine that composing is more solitary, but the teamwork aspect is huge when the piece is presented to the players, right?</p>
<p>Not sure what kind of composing SpiritManager’s son is interested in, but I’m guessing he’s looked at websites of young composers whose work he likes. I met two young composers last year–Mason Bates and Huang Ruo–who have interesting websites that show the variety of activities going on. Sounds like an exciting life to me.</p>
<p>For whatever it’s worth, I think that as parents, we should not force our children to choose “their passion” at the age of sixteen or seventeen. If a child is a wonderful pitcher AND composer, and wants to continue both in college, that is to be encouraged and commended! Few have both talents at such a high level!<br>
Sticking a kid in a room and telling them to “be a composer” because you have to focus early, seems rather sad to me. The best composers compose from their life experiences, and a seventeen-year old doesn’t have much to draw upon at that age.</p>
<p>I’ll just add my observations, that of a parent with a dedicated DIII soccer player (son) who’s team made it as far as the Final Four of the NCAA tournament and a dedicated musician (daughter) at a conservatory. Bottom line, unless one can alter the space/time continuum, there are not enough hours in the day for someone to do adequately pursue both. </p>
<p>Now, a composition major may have somewhat more leeway in one’s schedule, so practices and away games may be accomodated, but there still are only 24 hours in a day. Good luck to SpirtManager’s son in whatever path(s) he decides to pursue…</p>
<p>I agree that there would be no way to play Div I sports and attend a music conservatory, but wouldn’t playing Div III sports and composing at a school that has a much less vigorous music program be possible? Isn’t baseball a spring sport? I have to admit, I have little experience with sports (although many friends’ kids are in it), but although there is off season training, the real push would be spring through summer, leaving some off time to concentrate on music. And composing is very different from a performance concentration.
Where there is a will (and a desire for compromise) there is a way, I’ve always found. I think SpiritManager just has to do more research and I wish him and his son lots of luck!</p>
<p>We have found a LOT of skepticism and raised eyebrows regarding playing two instruments at a high level, and the expectation that it is both impossible to continue and highly discouraged. Singlemindedness, not compromise, seems to be the name of the game.</p>
<p>I cannot possibly imagine the way one could balance one instrument and sports, since at least in music, one can coordinate practice schedules,etc…Of course, this might be very possible at an LAC or university, but not at a music school.</p>