music college

wysiwyg63 · October 6, 2009, 5:51am

Hi. My son, all of 11 years old currently, wants to pursue music post high school. can someone assist to identify top 5 music colleges in US? He is currently in India and is studying there in 6th grade. How does he prepare himself for admissions to these colleges? What are the procedures? Look forward to valuable inputs. Thank you.

pageturner · October 6, 2009, 7:11am

There is a music major forum here that will be able to help you with all of your questions. The poster violadad is especially helpful.

The top 5 music colleges in the US would depend on what your son wants to study. Is he interested in performance? industry? education? therapy? theory? conducting? composition?

Since he is 11, there is plenty of time to narrow this down!

violadad · October 6, 2009, 7:33am

<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html</a> is the place to start. Virtually any thread in the subforum will reveal valuable information for those uninformed.

pageturner is absolutely correct about the “top 5” or “15” or even “50”.

It is so discipline specific that a ranking is meaningless, and frankly unimportant.

And plenty of time for him to change his mind.

binx · October 6, 2009, 7:36am

The music forum is here: [Music</a> Major - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/]Music”>Music Major - College Confidential Forums)

Perhaps the mods will move this thread to that forum. However, no one on the music forum is going to be able to give you the top 5 schools. As pageturner says, this is going to vary according to instrument and a whole lot else. Since there will be 6 years or so until your son is even applying, a list created today is not going to match a list 6 years from now. Teachers move around, schools change focus, funding ebbs and flows. Sometimes 11 year olds change their minds.

Reading through this thread will give you a lot of basic information, and perhaps point you the direction you need to be headed over the next few years: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html</a>

Edit: Cross posted with Violadad!

JEM · October 7, 2009, 8:58am

OK, I have relocated the thread, as suggested in a report. Thanks for the helpful responses so far.

Singersmom07 · October 7, 2009, 12:19pm

I think you have discovered that no one will bite on the top 5 schools issue because there is no one overall ranking like the published ones for academcis. There are too many variables. So what can your son do? He should try to study with the best possibe teacher for him, participate in the opportunities available to him, practice, practice, pracitce - read Outliers for a discussion of the hours required for success. But this needs to come from within him, if he only practices when you are standing over him, it is not the same.

violadad · October 7, 2009, 2:30pm

wysiwyg63, welcome. First I’m going to ask a few background questions to start.

At 11, a lot will depend on what his current musical involvement is now. Specific area of study, choice of instrument, is the focus western classical tradition, a more modern/popular bent, or is it ethno/cultural?

You mention he is studying in India. Are you US citizens or hold dual citizenship? Will he continue his education in India, or a portion before college within the US? The reasons I ask are that most here (myself included) are probably not at all familiar with the typical elementary through high school education in India, how the systems differ. There are also specific parameters for applying to US colleges as an international applicant that you will need to consider down the road.

Additionally, the music training experience may well be far different here than on the subcontinent. Again, most of the posters here may not be in a position to equate experiences.

Lastly, there may be some cross cultural differences that might come into play. You will get a lot of advice saying “don’t push or direct”, “let the child explore” or “let them find their own path”. It’s advice I support, as do many here.

Again, depending on his musical discipline and current level of ability, 11 may be the point to start kicking some of the training into high gear. It may not.

The important aspects are quality private instruction, playing with peers of equal or greater talent, and exposure to as many appropriate experiences that will enhance your student musically.

To give you a broader understanding of why most here will not commit to a top “xx” number of US music programs using a ranking system, there really is none. BassDad’s post outlines a myriad number of important factors, and each item is a factor in the decision process that determines which is the “best” program(s) for a particular student. The <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/618208-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2009-a-59.html?highlight=master[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/618208-master-list-music-school-acceptances-fall-2009-a-59.html?highlight=master</a> here shows the most recent school acceptances of the contributors to this forum. While not all encompassing, it is a pretty accurate sampling of most of the top programs in the country.

I’ve pulled some of the prior threads from this forum outlining some of background and developmental paths representative of the posters here. They are typical of the higher level of musical involvement in the States.

musicprnt · October 7, 2009, 4:31pm

The posters on here have said volumes in these couple of posts, especially Violadad, who generally can be expected to give first class answers (and even his second class are above the rest:). I am responding, not as someone who has had a child go ‘all the way’,but as someone who roughly went through what your son seems to be going through, at roughly the same age, i.e a desire to make this a vocation/avocation, and has moved up the rungs so to speak and is in a high level pre college program now, at 14.

1)If he really thinks he is serious (and without knowing the instrument, I cannot give any direct advice), then the first thing I would tell you is given the competition out there for top programs at either the pre college prep or college level, that it is important that you try and find a top level teacher for him, one who has prepared students for conservatories (and as someone else pointed out, depends on what kind of music as well, someone who prepares kids for Juilliard on classical violin wouldn’t be good for jazz more then likely). Depending on the instrument, there are resources you can use to help find teachers (for example, on the violin side of things there is a website called violinist.com that has some good advice and also people from all over the world to help in finding a teacher).

2)If he is already playing an instrument, has he shown dedication to seriously pursuing playing the instrument? Does he do his practicing without having to be nudged, or has he internalized he needs to do it and needs more help organizing his schedule then being told to practice? (from my experience, and talking to other parents of serious music students, they generally trace the point of getting ‘serious’ to when the child takes that into his own hands)…note, though, that it also can be a function of age, 11 year olds IME can be sort of self distracted and forgetful about things, yet be serious.

3)In terms of experience, as others have said, find all the opportunities you can for him to experience music. This is both in performing (local youth orchestras or other performing opportunities, chamber music, etc), and also in listening to and going to live concerts (obviously, I don’t know where you live, if western classical music the area you are in may or may not have a lot of events). With webbroadcasts, there is a lot of music out there, and YouTube has a lot of musical performances out there, spanning genres, that can be really valuable in ‘feeding’ the desire for music, in the sense of getting an idea of what it is about.

4)Be realistic with him as well, that even if he gets into a high level program that it is very, very difficult to make it as a musician, that graduating from a top level program guarantees you very little, except the training and experience they give, it isn’t like ‘go to high level program,become top level musician making a good living’. I add that because in some places where you go to school in of itself can guarantee certain things, but in music where you go doesn’t guarantee anything or necessarily mean that the person will find things easy going (and I have seen this up close and personal, I have met parents of students who thought that just getting into high level music schools meant their child was going to be a high level musician…)

My biggest advice is to explain more about your son on here, what instrument he plays (or if he is a singer), what kind of music he seems headed for, etc. There is a lot of knowledge on here from a wide variety of experiences that probably can really help get over the knowledge hurdles.

violadad · October 7, 2009, 8:13pm

If it is not the primary instrument, piano training should be introduced at some point. Piano skills training is a beneficial and helpful tool for many interested in high level music training. It adds another dimension and is extremely helpful in developing theory and sight reading skills as well.

If it’s introduced as a secondary instrument, the timing is best discussed with the primary instrument instructor. A concern is enough practice time between two instruments, but this is a function of the student, level of ability, and the private primary instructor’s philosophy.

Mezzo_sMama · October 7, 2009, 10:41pm

There are also excellent schools in the UK and France, which you might want to investigate. Make sure you expose your son to as much music as possible in the form of concerts, CDs, satellite radio,etc. If he loves music, he’s probably searching things out on his own but assist him in whatever ways you can- this also shows him that you support him and believe in what is important to him.
The advice given to study piano is excellent- he’ll need it, whatever his primary instrument is.
As far as inquiring about the “top 5 music colleges”, yes, it’s certainly too early to look to that, but please know that there is no easy answer to that question since it does depend upon the instrument he plays. Also, the school which is best today may not be the top later on. Faculty can move from place to place and often the teacher is the determing factor for a student. My advice to you would be to stay around here, ask questions and read through old threads- they have a lot of good information and provide a starting point.

violadad · October 8, 2009, 9:51am

I want to expand a point made earlier, and cite the active thread <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/171420-ivies-best-subjects.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/171420-ivies-best-subjects.html</a> in cc’s search and selection forum.

Threads like this may well draw the op and other’s attention who are drawn to rankings, lists of “bests”, the top “XX”'s for any number of reasons.

For points of clarification, the list provided in post 77 runs the gamut from Ivy league institutions to some fairly obscure public programs that are typically under the radar for even those that consider themselves fairly well informed when it come to music programs. Some are extremely competitive admits based on academic stats and a myriad number of factors that drive admissions decisions where music is centered in an academic liberal arts based focus (and a non-audition process) where the end result is a BA degree, a broad range of private instruction and ensemble/performance opportunities where peer quality across a range of instruments may well be sorely lacking. Some of these may well be the “best” to pursue the areas of music academic interests of theory, music history or musicology and composition.

There are no true conservatories on the list, save Oberlin and the list as presented fails to differentiate between Oberlin College and the Conservatory. While URochester is represented, the Eastman name is absent. Names such as Juilliard, NEC, Curtis and a host of others are conspicuously absent, quite probably as they fail to meet the definition of “universities” comprising the list. By contrast, Oberlin is not a university, but a liberal college yet is on the list. In looking at any list, it is critical to know the parameters and criteria for inclusion (or exclusion), and what constitutes the criteria that result in the compilation of the end result.

There are a number of institutions that combine a conservatory-level experience and a broad range of academics, provide both BA and BM variants, strong performance based faculty and programs and produce the “top” candidates across a variety of disciplines musically.

There are programs that are audition based admits that can flex academic requirements for a musician with talent. There are programs there that will not bend academic standards regardless of the musical talent of the applicant even if they are at the top of their game musically within the applicant pool.

There are programs there not known for financial flexibility or large awards. There are programs that are extremely generous. There are programs that welcome international applicants, and programs that limit international admissions. There are those that make out of state admissions difficult, and those that seek out of state applicants.

That particular ranking, as with others that I have encountered, bears little fruit in determining the outcome of success for any particular student, or for that matter even the range of options necessary in examining potential choices.

It is a potential starting point, nothing more. It is neither complete, nor in my opinion accurate, particularly in defining or assessing the parameters of a music program.

But that’s just my opinion.

Do your homework. Research thoroughly. Leave no stone unturned. The choices are many and varied.

violadad · October 10, 2009, 10:17am

In the interest of objectivity and information, I’ll add the thread link <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/781204-just-list.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/781204-just-list.html</a>

There is ample opinion within that thread arguing both the pitfalls and potentials of the list presented.

Personally, my view is that it is what the thread title suggests.

music college

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