<p>My brother is interested in going to college to study some form of music, be it simply guitar performance or maybe music/recording industry, audio engineering, music production. Problem is, he’s a pretty bad student. A C-/C average. And an international. </p>
<p>Could anyone please suggest programs that do not require SAT scores and have the above conditions in mind? I know very little about this area so I’m asking for any help possible. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a degree, it can also be a certificate program.</p>
<p>Berklee College of Music is SAT-optional and has many if not all of those majors. Admission would be based mostly on an audition, but financial aid may not be the greatest.</p>
<p>As flutegirl says, many conservatories like The Conservatory of Music of Puerto Rico, Curtis, Eastman School of Music, Juilliard, the Longy School of Music, The Manhattan School of Music, New England Conservatory, The New School (Mannes), and the San Francisco Conservatory do not require SATs and many will not care too much about grades provided he speaks English well enough to get by in his lessons. A potential problem there is that he will be auditioning against some seriously talented students and most of these program are much more oriented toward classical guitar and do not have a lot of the music tech stuff that seem to interest him.</p>
<p>You might have a look at Susquehanna University. They have a pretty good music program, are SAT-optional, have been known to accept students with a C+ sort of average (if he can improve a bit) and they have a very good guitar teacher who is into jazz/popular styles as well as classical. They also have a student-run radio station where he could pick up some of the tech stuff.</p>
<p>There are also for-profit schools like Full Sail, that have music tech programs and will basically take any high school grad who can come up with the tuition to pay for the program.</p>
<p>Try checking out Univ of Massachusetts, Lowell (or UMass-Lowell as the locals refer to it). The school is supposed to have an outstanding music production/audio recording program.</p>
<p>Your brother might want to look into some cc programs, and then transfer. Depending upon your location, you might find a seamless transition to a 4 year music or music technology degree, and he’ll have a chance to discover if he’s cut out for a college workload. Plus, usually the high school grades won’t matter anymore, and no SATs needed either. He also might want to check some smaller privates and state universities. What state are you talking about? Also, you really have to figure out why the grades are as low as they are. Every college program is likely to include coursework that the student is not so motivated to study, but you have to buckle down and do it anyway. So, your bro might want to think about what’s stopping him from getting better grades, and solve that before making a commitment to a music program anywhere.</p>
<p>BassDad, I’m not sure how you got the impression that Eastman doesn’t consider academics. The impression we got, from listening to the admissions officers, was that they really look at the whole file, not just the audition, which would include grades, SAT scores if you choose to send them, music recommendations, and experiences/accomplishments in music and life. My D commented that all the kids she talked to on audition day seemed to be the “academic, brainy” type of music student. Lots of them were also applying to ivys or Northwestern, Carnegie-Mellon, Oberlin… But it is true, of course, that SATs are not required for Eastman. Perhaps, when a truly exceptional player auditions, Eastman really won’t care about their academics. Sopranos don’t seem to have that luxury, ever! ;)</p>
<p>Sorry for the confusion. I selected the conservatories from a list obtained from a website that lists schools where SAT’s are optional. I did not mean to imply that none of them considered academics, which is why I said “many will not care too much about grades” rather than “none of these will care about grades.” Perhaps “some of these” would have been a better choice of words.</p>
<p>Although Juilliard has guitar, it doesn’t have the other areas the OP mentions. This will probably be true at many conservatories, as they tend to concentrate on performance degrees.</p>
<p>I suggest another approach - to look at schools with strong programs that take students with lower SAT scores. One example is Middle Tennessee State University. It has a very strong Music Technology program. Average SATs for the school are 450-580 in both Math and Critical Reading. I think they attract a fair number of International Students as well.</p>
<p>One caveat: because their music tech program is so well-known, their admission to that program might be a little tougher. I can’t remember if it required a primary instrument and/or audition.</p>
<p>Re: SAT. Your brother can take the test, and not indicate any schools to send the scores to. If the scores are good, he can then send them along. He might also consider taking the ACT instead, as some students do better on one than the other.</p>
<p>Beyond what others have stated about specific schools and grades/tests parameters, there appears to be a very broad spectrum of choices, but it will require some down and dirty research. </p>
<p>BassDad mentions Full Sail, and other programs of that nature. Again, just a warning to investigate all aspects of these for profit programs fully, realize their strengths and limitations, and do not make the mistake of comparing apples and oranges when weighing them against typical college program options.</p>
<p>BassDad, you had me worried there for a minute! Thanks for the clarification…
I continue to take exception with those who think that conservatories don’t care that much about grades. From my conversations last year with admissions officers at several conservatories, each and every one had the same thing to say, which was: “Yes, we do look at grades. While the audition is very important, grades are a good indicator of how (a student) will handle work at the college level”. Given the high quality of students auditioning at the top schools, I was also told that grades are used to help decide between relatively equal candidates.
During my years teaching college, the differences between A and C students were evident across the board: in approach to classes in general, class participation, writing and assignment completion. So yes, in a performance major, a spectacular audition may compensate for a 2 GPA, I would think that schools would not be so willing to be that lenient when it comes to fields such as Audio Engineering (there are some pretty intense physics and math classes coming into play there) or production. Money is very tight everywhere and although some schools have special funding just for International students, cut backs there will tighten the standards just as it has everywhere else.
sopranomom92’s suggestion of considering a community college is a good one- get the general education requirements out of the way there while still taking lessons on the side. It’s a chance to improve academics as well as study and organizational skills which can really boost his chances to transfer to another school after a year.</p>
<p>I certainly agree that grades will matter quite a bit for a highly technical field like audio engineering. I am an electrical engineer myself and know first hand what it takes to get through the math and physics courses that are involved. Many aspects of production are based on work experience or rules of thumb and are not nearly as dependent on higher mathematics, so there may be a bit more leniency there.</p>
<p>I have heard that same speech about grades from admissions officers, but find it far more instructive to observe what they do rather than what they say. Some schools do indeed put those principles into practice. However, there are some conservatories that will accept performance majors who had less than stellar GPAs, presumably because they had very good auditions. (There was a thread here on CC in which people were sharing URLs for Naviance sites at their high schools. By looking through a bunch of scatter charts, one could occasionally come across the GPA and SAT scores of unnamed students who were accepted or rejected at schools like Juilliard, NEC, Curtis and so forth where most of those admitted are performance majors of one sort or another.) There are also schools of music, some of them fairly good, associated with colleges and universities that accept a rather high percentage of applicants overall. Their music performance major acceptance rate may well be quite a bit lower than the overall rate, most particularly among female voice students, but for the most part they do not seem to be requiring higher academic standards for music majors than for the rest of the school. I can see how academics could be used in a tie-breaker sort of situation for the more popular voices and instruments, but my sense is that there are options out there for those who are very musically talented but who have not, for one reason or another, done as well with their grades. There will always be more doors open for those who have both the grades and the musical talent, however.</p>
<p>With all due respect to the OP and brother, if the grades actually are a true reflection of academic capability/inclination to study, the brother may not be happy at any of the university based sound/music production programs of which I am aware, which typically require a minimum math ACT of 28 for eligibility (U Mich, for example). </p>
<p>Eg. next term my son is taking a required EECS (electrical engineering) “basic” programming course in C++ – It’s a required course for his degree, even though he is BFA and not the ENG version of production. He had straight As in advanced calc and yet he is still concerned about that course. (BTW, nothing “basic” about C++ programming for the uninitiated…)</p>
<p>So, as other posters have mentioned, said brother might want to look at OPEN ENROLLMENT schools such as Columbia of Chicago, or PRIVATE production schools, such as Full Sail, where the emphasis is the software manipulation as opposed to the deep science of sound. If he is a “hands-on” learner, that could give him a lot of access to enjoyable work and the capability to effectively record his own material.</p>
<p>With respect to guitar, if he’s focused on contemporary music, may of the programs (eg. USC) again require students to have the capacity to perform well academically. Some students suddenly flourish academically at college, so it really depends on the individual, his own goals and his own commitment level.</p>
<p>My sister is an audio engineer. She attended Berklee and speaks highly of the program there. However, as bassdad said, there are a lot of math & physics courses involved. Even now, 20 years out of school. she has to keep up with the constant changes in the field. She is constantly taking classes and teaching herself new technologies.<br>
If your brother is not a self-motivated student, this is probably not the best choice of major for him. It is also very hard to get a job in the field right out of school, so to be employable, he would need to do well in school. Once you have the job, it is the kind of job that requires crazy hours… she was at work until 3 am the other night… people had flown in from all over the country to do a recording and they were not leaving until it was done… It is also a lot of nights and weekends because that is when concerts take place that need to be recorded. It is also not the most lucrative of field to work in.
Good luck to your brother!</p>
<p>I agree with BassDad that there is difference in what the schools say and what they do. I think the majority of the conservatories pay little attention to grades, but they can’t bring themselves to be that blunt. Some are very blunt about it, however. If the talent is there, they will find a way to make it work. I think it is extremely difficult to be a good musician and not be bright so I think they take a gamble that if grades aren’t up to snuff, it is more likely based on lack of interest or effort than ability.</p>