Music teachers? Bassoonists? Any advice on a "starter" instrument?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>At my son’s school, children can pick instruments in the 4th grade to begin learning. </p>

<p>The two instruments that my son has really shown interest in are violin and bassoon. Our school band does not have strings. </p>

<p>They only offer the following:</p>

<p>Clarinet
Flute
Oboe
Saxophone
Trumpet/Cornet
Trombone
French Horn
Baritone/Tuba
Percussion</p>

<p>We have agreed to let our son try violin over the summer outside of school, but we would really like him also to pick an instrument that would enable him to play in the school band. </p>

<p>The school does have a bassoon, but it is huge, and the kids generally do not start on that until at least middle school due to the size and unavailability of a rental. </p>

<p>I took him to one music store. The man tried him out on an oboe and he couldn’t blow into the reed. He could blow into the clarinet, but the man said his fingers are too small and to look for a closed hole clarinet (hard to find). The man said that my son’s “parrot lip” (I call it that) is a “teardrop lip” and that he’d not do well on flute (his sister’s instrument). He also said brass would not be good due to the lip and my son’s space between his front teeth. He said that there’s no reason he can’t start right on bassoon, but I needed to find a short-reach bassoon for rent, and I’ve had no luck. </p>

<p>I took my son to another music store where a very enthusiasic man who is both an oboist and bassoonist said that he might be able to modify a bassoon to enable my son to play. He did actually seat my son and inspect his hands against the instrument, and the problem was that the bocal was way to high, but he thought he could maybe modify that. I have not yet heard from him and I’m not sure if this will be a success. </p>

<p>In any case, he did let my son try an oboe with a synthetic reed, and my son was able to blow into that an follow some basic fingering directions.</p>

<p>Anyhow, the paper has come home, and he needs to pick three instruments in order of preference. They did this to my daughter, and I find out years later that her first choice was oboe, but she ended up on flute. The teacher has now admitted to me that it was a lottery. The school owned one oboe, so one kid got it. I wish I had known, I would have rented one for her. I let the teacher know that I do not care if he gets the school instrument, I will try to rent one of the “lottery instruments” (oboe, french horn, or baritone horn) if that is right for him.</p>

<p>The school band teacher said that if a bassoon can be modified, then she’ll let him play it. But that may not happen. If that man can’t modify one and rent it, I don’t have thousands to buy one. He’d just have to start somewhere else.</p>

<p>My son is small for age. My daughter feels that an oboe requires a lot of breath support. This is aside from being supposedly a “difficult” instrument. She said no oboists exist in the high school band. Clarinet is “easier”, but there are SO MANY of them.</p>

<p>He kind of likes the trombone, french horn, and drums too, but they won’t convert to bassoon down the road.</p>

<p>So, any suggestions on where to start? These are my main concerns:</p>

<p>a) My son is perfectionistic. For example, one time he sat and did a latchhook kit for 6 hours, and then put it away over a mistake, rather than just undoing the mistake (could have done this easily!). I am afraid that if he gets a “bad” or too frustrating of a start, he’ll give up on music altogether, and never even get to try the bassoon. </p>

<p>b) I’m afraid he’ll end up with an instrument that will bore him and he’ll quit music.</p>

<p>My daughter and I both believe that learning an instrument and being in band made a huge difference in her growth. I want the same for my son. While I am all for him picking a “unique” instrument like bassoon, oboe, or french horn, I also would be fine with him transitioning “up” to one of those if they are too hard.</p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

2

<p>You really should post this on the Music forum. Go to the main listings and look for “College Majors” and under there you will see “Music Major”. Post your question there. There are double reed players there who can add their two cents worth. </p>

<p>I will say…the bassoon is also a double reed instrument and is not any easier to play than the oboe. The bassoon is a much larger instrument and the student does need to have the hand size to be able to operate all of the keys to play the thing…and the air to push a sound through the double reed and the instrument itself.</p>

3

<p>The oboe and most probably bassoon in the end are all about making reeds. An oboist needs to be an artisan as well as musician.</p>

4

<p>Overseas has a point. But even IF a student can make the best reeds in the world, there is no guarantee that they will be a fine double reed player.</p>

5

<p>If he might be interested in bassoon, clarinet is a fine place to start. Also, closed hole clarinets ARE readily available. “Student” level instruments are most often just that.
I know there will be a comparatively large number of clarinet players, but he may do very well with it and it is a good instrument to start with and then branch into other woodwinds…</p>

6

<p>I posted on the music forum before I saw this thread. Since you include a couple more details here, let me add some things.</p>

<p>First, if your goal is to get him to like music, be aware that some instruments are harder to “start” on. For example, most everyone can make a sound on the clarinet to begin with - an immediate reward. On the other hand, it takes a lot of work to get pitch-appropriate sounds on the french horn. (But if he has a natural talent for one of the harder instruments, that can become inspiring all by itself.)</p>

<p>If he is willing to start on the violin, it is one instrument that comes in smaller sizes for younger students. Most of the others do not.</p>

<p>Perfectionism is a fine trait for a musician. When my S2 started french horn, the only reason his teacher (a professional who generally did not teach beginners) took him on was because I mentioned that he was a perfectionist.</p>

<p>Another comment re: perfectionism. If he plays bassoon or french horn, for example, he will probably be the only one, or one of a few. Less competition, but also less peer help. If he plays trumpet, clarinet, or flute, for example, he will have lots of compadres/competition. Which would he do better with?</p>

<p>The issue I would settle with him in advance is the practice issue. There is a big different between practice and performance. Practice is a whole lot less fun. You might want to treat it like you treat homework at your house. Make it a non-optional activity, and plan on “helping” for at least awhile. (The best help is an occasional “That sounds good!”)</p>

<p>As far as band/orchestra - many orchestral students pick up an additional band instrument to march with in high school. But otherwise orchestra offers more playing ops in the long term. (Not so many professional or community bands.)</p>

<p>Most of the instruments on the list play in both band and orchestra. Baritone and saxophone do not.</p>

7

<p>D2 is a violinist/french horn player that has also dabbled in oboe, and will switch to trombone for jazz (but valve trombone since the slide thing is harder to learn the older you get). I would see if the teacher can see how well of an ear your son has, if it is good and he is a perfectionist the french horn may be the way to go (D2 can pick up just about anything and play it due to her Suzuki violin training), but…</p>

<p>…if you have already heard from a dentist, orthodontist that braces are in your son’s future due to the teeth spacing, I would shy away from brass, too many of older D’s bandmates (she is a sax player that I had to fight for her to start on sax due to her small size) have had nightmares adjusting to braces. D2 has that problem now with the french horn, but she is only in braces for a year so she is toughing it out.</p>

<p>And of course there is always by first love…percussion! Gotta do the snare/timpani/mallet trio though, or it doesn’t count!!</p>

8

<p>I agree with starting on clarinet as a prelude to bassoon. Often the single oboe or bassoon in a band is a clarinet player who showed an interest in playing a unique instrument that no one else was willing to tackle!</p>

<p>I am a flute player with the “teardrop” mouth problem…it took me a whole week to get a tone out of the flute, while others were already tooting away. In the end I surpassed them because as a pianist I could already read music. BUT I am resigned to never having a really great tone because my lip gets in the way of the air stream. I just play flute for fun.</p>

<p>Violins are available in smaller sizes, but your son would have to play in a community orchestra if your school doesn’t offer strings.</p>

<p>binx–I disagree with your assessment of the smaller number of community bands vs. orchestras. Where I live there are LOTS of them–we even had a massive joint outdoor band concert recently. I would say there are actually more opportunities for band instrument players than for string players. Not to mention college marching or concert bands!</p>

9

<p>Well, perhaps I am skewed in my views due to our family’s instrumentation! </p>

<p>Around here we have 1 youth “wind symphony” (at Emory). We have adult and youth orchestras in our county, at least 2 more metro youth orchestras, and 1 pro orchestra (Atlanta Symphony.) We also have two strings-only youth orchestras.</p>

<p>When our family was doing college searches, and were researching music programs, we noticed a number of faculty (various instruments) who mentioned playing with local orchestras, but I don’t remember any bands.</p>

<p>My S2 is aiming to be a professional musician. Since he plays French Horn, he could play in either a band or an orchestra. Outside of the military bands, though, I’m not aware of too many professional band opportunities for him. (He prefers orchestras, so maybe we’re just finding what we’re looking for.)</p>

10

<p>Oh, you mean a PAID position. :wink: Among amateurs, I’d bet there are more band gigs.</p>

<p>But I wouldn’t steer a 4th grader’s choice of instrument based on what sort of employment opportunities there might be when he is a adult, assuming he’s ever going to be good enough to hold a paid position in an orchestra.</p>

11

<p>When my youngest started on the bassoon (6th grade, so she was almost big enough) the school really encouraged all the douple reed players to start private lessons the summer before. They’re just that much harder to learn to play.
Does your son like to “play the melody” in life? Does he prefer to do what most kids are doing? Would he mind being the only or nearly only one playing his insturment?</p>

12

<p>Binx, you may be correct in asserting that there are ultimately more jobs for string players as professionals, than brass players. Remember, though, that there are brass players in symphony orchestras also! My son played (trombone) in both the AYWS (the wind symphony at Emory) and the AYSO (the student affiliate of the Atlanta Symphony). Of course there are only a few trombones and many more string players in a symphony orchestra, and those brass players do often get to either leave the stage or sit and read a book or something during long sections with no brass, but they are there!</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>Huh? Where did I say that? I did say this:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>My S also played with the ASYO - in the brass section. </p>

<p>I started the whole conversation about orchestras/bands because the OP mentioned playing violin, but needing a band instrument for school. Sometimes I think people concentrate on being able to be in marching band [note: the OP didn’t mention marching band - I’m just responding to what I hear locally - the tendency to choose an instrument based only upon marching] and forget that there is life outside of band. Not meaning to argue for or against one or the other - only to encourage broader thinking.</p>

14

<p>I think that the choice of an instrument for a fourth grader can be overanalyzed. </p>

<p>Trying to discern which instrument will be best in high school and after, and carefully considering the technical idiosyncrasies of each instrument, imo attempts to go further than one can typically knowledgeably go with a fourth grader.</p>

<p>The main thing, imo, is to get started on something that seems practical and of interest to the beginner, and not to give the impression that the child’s entire musical future hinges on this one decision.</p>

<hr>

<p>Imho, perfectionism would be best discouraged when starting an instrument. Everyone makes hundreds of mistakes at first. Imo, adults will do well to help the beginner understand that mistakes are part of the process, that perfection is a long-run goal, not a necessity or a day-to-day reality.</p>

15

<p>Unusual professional gigs for horn players:</p>

<p>[UPDATE:</a> The Roots rock MemAud in Big Game Concert - The Stanford Daily Online](<a href=“http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/11/30/updateTheRootsRockMemaudInBigGameConcert]UPDATE:”>http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2007/11/30/updateTheRootsRockMemaudInBigGameConcert)</p>

16

<p>ADad - You’re right, of course. Just like most of us on CC tend to over-analyze college choices. Pick one that interests you and seems practical; if it doesn’t work out, then switch. Hope for serendipity. :)</p>

<p>Seriously, just like college choices, it makes sense to think at least a little bit about what you want out of it. Almost every adult piano student who comes to my studio has a story about trying music as a kid, and for one reason or another, it not working out. Trying to figure out those glitches and hurdles in advance, in order to avoid them, from folks who have gone before, is not a bad thing. Why not at least try to set up for success?</p>

<p>Of course, life at our house revolves around music, so it probably matters more to us than many. I have absolutely no problem with kids who just wish to dabble in music along with soccer and scouting. The vast majority of my students fit that mold. I think music is something that can benefit most everyone, whether or not they plan to pursue it for an extended length of time.</p>

<p>And “perfectionism” is probably a whole 'nother thread. Does it mean you work hard to get rid of mistakes, or does it mean you don’t try because you are afraid of mistakes? (When I mention it, I tend to mean the first.)</p>

17

<p>I think that a distinction can be drawn between choosing a fourth grade musical instrument and choosing a college. </p>

<p>I also think that both can be overanalyzed. Planning is a good thing but, like most good things, can be overdone.</p>

<p>One problem with overanalysis is that it can create stress for the student. “We have got to get this exactly right, now, there will never be another chance” imo can create stress for the student and actually work against a successful outcome.</p>

<p>Right, the first kind of perfectionism you mentioned is great for music and most anything. I can think of a third: you try, make the inevitable mistakes, and give up because you can’t tolerate the mistakes.</p>

18

<p>I suggest Clarinet.</p>

<p>Clarinet is the most flexible bridge to other instruments.</p>

<p>Many clarinettists double on flute (similar fingering).</p>

<p>or Sax (my daughter can pick up a sax and play it any time)</p>

<p>or many switch to oboe or bassoon.</p>

<p>It opens the most doors and closes the least.</p>

<p>My DD started on clarinet when she heard a sax jazz solo at her sisters band concert.</p>

<p>Fortunately her school wouldn’t let her start on sax, and she fell in love with clarinet.</p>

<p>BTW, I’ve never hear of a “closed hole clarinet”.</p>

<p>I bought her a buffet student instrument when she began (3rd grade).</p>

<p>Then a Buffet R13 when she started middle school.</p>

<p>And most recently a R13 A when she started playing with the school orchestra.</p>

<p>Choosing a clarinet now lets you assess your childs musical interest and inclination before you commit to the cost and stress of bassoon.</p>

<p>BTW, I hope that you know that private lessons are a must whether it’s clarinet or bassoon. It’s easier to form good habits than to break bad ones.</p>

19

<p>Ematoo–good points.</p>

<p>I would also point out that oboe/bassoon are not played in MARCHING band! So one would play clari. or sax in marching season, and the double reed instrument in concert season.</p>

20

<p>Binx, sorry I must have read too hurriedly. I was not intending any disrespect or anything and I hope I did not offend…</p>

<p>And, cool…maybe our kids played in ASYO together???</p>