<p>Are there any statistics on drop out rates for students in musical theatre programs at the various universities. I know that schools do publish the university-wide retention rates, but does that translate directly to the MT program. </p>
<p>I am curious about the number of freshmen who do not return to the MT program after the first year, and what percentage of students in MT complete all 4 years. Anyone know?</p>
<p>It depends what school you go to. Some like Pace have a much bigger percentage than a school like Otterbein. It would be impossible to get that data and to compare them.</p>
<p>Most schools will tell you as well if you ask.</p>
<p>Last year, Emerson told us the average national rate for MT students dropping out was 10%. I did not ask where they got their numbers, and I’m sure there is a large variation among schools, but this is what they said.</p>
<p>I have to say, I don’t like the word dropout in this case. Unless you are referring to someone who completely leaves the college setting? I think someone who changes majors should not be considered a dropout.</p>
<p>While it would be interesting to know how the number of program enrollees changes over the course of four years, the reasons each student makes a change can vary greatly. Change of heart, money issues, academic issues, not connecting with faculty or staff, leaving to find a more or less intense program, family issues, cut programs, health issues, landing a big professional role, major changes to the program or faculty, etc can all make an impact. So the numbers would mean little without the background.</p>
<p>That being said, a program such as Columbia College where there is huge attrition, or one in which there is a cut system is very helpful to know about. </p>
<p>Once you have narrowed down your list, ask the question as part of your overall research. It does matter, but only in context.</p>
<p>shaun0203, I certainly agree that there are different reasons for leaving a MT program, including getting a job on Broadway (e.g., Aaron Tveit or Sutton Foster). So, with that in mind, let me clarify what Emerson told us. They said the average national rate for people leaving MT programs on their own volition (NOT being cut against their will) was about 10%. This says nothing about whether they leave college altogether, or whether they are leaving for a job on Broadway or because they have had a change of heart (although I imagine the percentage who leave b/c they get a job on Broadway is rather small). However, the OP seems to be interested in the number of people who voluntarily leave MT programs for whatever reason. </p>
<p>I do know that older students in my D’s program told us that there are always a couple of MT kids who leave in the first few months, usually b/c the program was more intense than what they expected. “A couple” out of a class of about 20 sounds about right…</p>
<p>Yeah, dropout likely isn’t the best word as many just may leave the program/major, but not college all together. </p>
<p>I don’t know the numbers, but wouldn’t be surprised if that figure of 10% was about average. When you think about it, a majority of college students are entering BA degrees (I’m not talking of MT now) where a student does not commit to a major before enrolling and often declares their major by the end of sophomore year. These are young people after all. With a BFA degree, as is true of some other degree programs in engineering, nursing, architecture, etc., the student is committing at a young age to a particular field or major. The change of heart about major that sooooooooo many BA college students have in the first or second year of college could just as well apply to a BFA in MT student who changes their mind as well. And yes, there are some BFA students who do not fully comprehend the intensity of a BFA program until they enter it and it may not be right for them. So, besides the fact that any college student may change majors in the early years of college, these BFA students are making a commitment to a major while still in high school and that kinda goes against the norm for this age. </p>
<p>My MT kid had been passionate and immersed in MT since nursery school and it wasn’t like she went through the “what do I major in at college?” or “do I want a BA or a BFA?” and so on. She knew for years she was going to pursue this path well before applying to college. She even entered college at 16. But I have another daughter who was in interested in a field late in high school, but that was not a field she had studied in K-12, unlike my MT daughter who had been doing that field her whole life and so could commit to it. That is why my other daughter entered a BA college as she was not ready to commit to her field at 17 when she applied to college, having not really tried it out enough yet. And she is in a field (architecture) where there are undergraduate programs that are professional degree programs (BArch) that you have to commit to when you apply to college, like BFA in MT have to do.</p>
<p>Some do drop out, though. I know several people who went through this process and left the program and school after one year for a variety of reasons. Most of these programs are also not at schools that you would likely be attending for any other major so unless it’s at a school that is attractive for other reasons there may not be much point in staying.</p>
<p>Some may start out in MT and switch to music or acting as a major, also. Or theatre arts. Most MT BFAs are so intense, students who are interested in taking other classes in college might want to ratchet back on the MT.</p>
<p>Sorry if I used the wrong word or was not specific enough.</p>
<p>I am interested in the percentage of Musical Theatre students that successfully complete the Musical Theatre degree program and receive their degree in Musical Theatre as compared to students who leave the Musical Theatre program for any reason. I am not interested in schools that have a cut program. Hypothetically, if 20 freshmen entered the program in 2013, and assuming a 4 year program, can I expect that 18 of my classmates will receive our degrees (10%) in 2017? </p>
<p>From the above posts it sounds as if I must call each school I am interested in and request this information. I was hoping that someone on the forum may have already done this.</p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestions.</p>
<p>It really depends on a school, and the kinds of people they accept. These auditors are looking for talent and potential and work ethic, they dont know after the 5 minute audition if they can handle intense training. Also, if people are allowed to audition in cites like New York I think they are more likely to book something and leave compared to someone going to Viterbo and not having the vast amount of audition opportunities NYC provides. </p>
<p>I toured a school with a larger class size, and someone asked about it. The girl said within the first two weeks of her freshman 5 people left because the program was too intense, and more left at the end of their Freshman year to pursue a BA in something else, but the year after hers the whole class stayed it really depends and I dont think there is one indicator. </p>
<p>Also, it depends on transfers too. For example Leicester2, 18 sounds about right but if your school does not make transfers start at freshman year then the class size might be 20 or 22. It all depends.</p>
<p>It might help you to think about why you want to know this. It can mean a lot of different things-- in fact something different for everyone who leaves a program. A BFA is an incredibly intense experience: you are ‘on’ all day, every day. You can’t sleep in the back of the class if you were out partying the night before. You have to be physically, mentally, and emotionally involved in every class. There are some people who love that in theory but not in practice. Some of them will leave a program after the first semester. Some will transfer into a more academic, traditional BA program. Some don’t feel a fit in one BFA and transfer to another. Some MTs become ATs and though I’ve never seen it, some AT’s probably become AT’s. </p>
<p>So, what are you looking for underneath the statistic? Whether there really is a strong faculty-student connection? Whether the students are truly committed? You might want to look at it from another angle to find what you’re looking for.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t look for this “data” as a reason to apply or attend a school - or not. I think the issue of the cut policy is a bigger one in terms of deciding if you wish to apply/attend. I guess if you got into a program and wanted to see what their stats are on this, it could lead you to choose to attend - or not. For example, if you found a hugely high rate of student loss after 1 year, you might want to talk to current students and find out why. Is something wrong with the program? Is there a crazy, awful teacher there? And yet, I don’t know of any school that my D applied to that had this issue so I am not sure it is even a “real issue” out there. I assume that every school has some losses, as mentioned above. My D knows a boy who left the program she is starting out in this Fall. She understands his issues (more personal than not) and it helped shape her understanding of the school, and still it is her top choice. Finding out why can tell you a lot about the program/school, so this could be as useful to you in decision making as anything else.</p>
<p>These statistics aren’t kept nationally. Schools track majors for themselves, and they are required to track students overall. For instance, if a student leaves our institution, but graduates from another, statistically speaking, that person is counted. Any university can tell you what their four and five year graduation rate is, and most can tell you by major (within reason.) BFA programs in theatre have a higher average retention rate than the general university population. In most cases, much higher.</p>
<p>Thanks kjgc. That is actually nice to know.</p>
<p>For students who leave a BFA program because it is too intense for them…a couple of things…</p>
<p>One is that some students are very well informed about BFA programs and what they entail before they apply and others not so much. This admissions process should involve in depth investigation. Students who apply should be well aware of the hours involved, for example. It is not like a regular college degree program. </p>
<p>Another issue is it is a really good idea for someone contemplating a rigorous BFA program to have experienced an intense schedule of this sort prior to college. This may be through a very busy extracurricular schedule of training and shows on top of academics or else attending a summer intensive program. They should get a taste of that sort of 24/7 intensity and see if they like it. </p>
<p>Lastly, a lot of people tend to comment that the audition is everything in getting admitted to a BFA program but I actually applaud the schools that also look closely and holistically at the whole package and the academic side included. It is one thing to have singing, acting, and dancing talent and another to evaluate if the student would succeed in such a program of study. I’ve seen people dismiss the importance of grades, but actually a strong academic profile whereby a student has taken a challenging curriculum with a commitment to extracurriculars (time management, rigor) and has strong grades (work ethic) would generally be a positive sign for who might succeed in a rigorous BFA program. Of course there are exceptions and there are weak academic students who might be fine in a BFA or strong students who can’t hack the BFA. But I believe that evaluating more than singing, acting and dancing skills ought to go into the decision as to who would be an appropriate candidate to succeed all four years in a BFA degree program. So transcripts, recommendations, and so on would help to ascertain some of these other qualities that are necessary to succeed in such a program, beyond the artistic skill set.</p>
<p>From my own personal experience: A BFA class numbers are already so small and selective, that very few drop out and the ones who do, do so for only 3 reasons:</p>
<p>-They don’t like the school/only planned to be here for a year = they transfer, and continue on with their performance study elsewhere.
-Personal issues. Maybe college in general is not for them. Illness, tragedy, finances keep them from returning to finish their degree.
-Experience vs. Education. Some decide that college isn’t for them and they’d rather be learning on their feet, getting work in the real world.</p>
<p>But as I said in my experience, very few BFAs drop out. Actually, it’s the BA numbers that I see a dramatic decrease in. </p>
<p>While any of the previously stated three reasons also apply to why BAs drop out, there is actually a far more common reason: they realize they aren’t cut out for this. These are the kids who weren’t accepted in to the BFA program (not usually on account of talent, but those holding the auditions recognized these are the kids who wouldn’t last in a BFA program and so, accepted them as BAs instead) and upon arriving, realize why. These were kids who loved doing musicals in high school and won local talent shows with their singing but realized that they couldn’t keep up with the dedication a college theatre degree required. </p>
<p>The fifty-something BA class I started with has since dropped to, I think, 10-ish. Those BAs have since transferred and changed majors: English, Education, Music tend to be the most popular choices.</p>