<p>“Why is someone else’s article of clothing vitally important to your welfare?”</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>“Muslims are forgetting that this country isn’t ruled by their childish Sharia ‘laws’. Hmm, don’t want to use the word laws to give an ounce of legitimacy to their inane garbage.”</p>
<p>Wow!..just------Wow! You can’t see how that kind of talk is as damaging as some of the rhetoric coming from the other side? Are you actually proud of yourself?</p>
<p>Many women find saris quite comfortable and I don’t beleive it is part of the hindi religion to wear one, but part of the Indian culture just like Jeans and ski jackets are in US</p>
<p>My aunt who lived in Patankot for about 45 years, and recently retired to the States, does occasionally wear Western dress, but she finds saris much more comfortable and attractive and I would have to say I agree. It isn’t a religious thing, as she was on the Punjab as a Christian missionary, but more of a cultural and personal preference.
THe way people dress isn’t always because of religion- jeans certainly aren’t associated with a religion in the US, but I bet virtually everyone has at least one pair whether they wear them or not. THey are more of a cultural thing, not religious
I don’t think it is appropriate at all to expect everyone in US to dress the same- that is one of the more ridiculous things I have ever heard.
I would protest, if in the US we decided that schoolgirls could not wear their headdress, like they have in France.
We have freedom to practice our religions here. Freedom of and Freedom From religion are cornerstones of this country.
We don’t ( yet) force people to practice the state religion and we don’t keep people from practicing their religion.
I know it might be difficult for someone to understand who is not of that religion, but for example the Latter day saints who wear their distinctive underwear that you can see under their clothes- it isn’t just underwear to them.
THe women who wear the headscarf, it is a precept of their religion- it isnt a * fashion*
I frankly am very shocked that someone on a Parents message board- that originally attracts adults who are interested in higher education for their children, would be so ignorant as to think that what someone else thinks, if it is different than their own beliefs, is meaningless</p>
<p>I am no fan of Sharia law, or any law that represses women. However, your comment was over the top, Brew, and any respect that I may have had for your opinion just flew right out the window, after that comment. This thread has badly deteriorated, and people’s biases, prejudices, and xenophobia are left flapping in the wind.</p>
<p>Me_: razorsharp did not say Muslims do not have ‘the right’ to wear headscarves. He said that if one wears clothing that is different from that worn by the majority of the population, one should expect a reaction. I mean come on, if I walk down the street wearing a wedding dress, I would expect people to give me funny looks. Not because I don’t have the right to wear a wedding dress, but because most other people are not wearing one!</p>
<p>The situation is the same for the Hassidim, Sikhs, Christian and Jewish women who cover their hair and so on. It is a fact of life that people will notice something they are not used to.</p>
<p>EDIT: Also, sorry, but I am a pedant. ‘Hindi’ is a language. ‘Hindu’ is a person who follows Hinduism. ‘Hinduism’ is a religion. Also, the situation in India is not as fantastic as some people make out - have you forgotten the Bombay bombings? Kashmir?</p>
<p>I know many American women (and this also includes reporters) who conform and wear a headdress and cover their entire bodies when in countries such as Saudi Arabia because they will otherwise be ostracized. In addition, they of course abide by laws such as women not being able to drive and not being able to vote. Remember the recent cases in Nigeria where Muslim law has dictated the death of women for having a child out of wedlock. These laws are still ruling in many areas of Nigeria, and Christians are being persecuted, as well. The women have to very strictly abide by laws and customs that are repressive.</p>
<p>In this country, there is more freedom of expression and more freedom for women than in many parts of the world. </p>
<p>But people will react as they want, such as making comments, for better or worse, and that is part of doing things or wearing things that are different than most other people.</p>
<p>“However, saying “Muslim shoots Jews” makes it seem like such a wide encompassing thing. And it’s not.”</p>
<p>The title doesn’t say “Muslims shoot Jews.” The “Muslim” was singular and the “Jews” was plural. Which is factual. A Muslim DID shoot Jews. I’m sorry that the ugly truth is so hard for some people to recognize, and I don’t understand why it is so hard for some Americans to take the haters at their word. When a Muslim who shot Jewish people tells you why he did it, take his word for it. He surely knows his mind better than you do. When the President of the Iranian Republic tells you his goal is to wipe Israel off the map, take his word for that, too, because he surely knows his motivation and plans better than you do.</p>
<p>I work with a Muslim man from Pakistan. The nicest, smartest, most genuinely entertaining person I’ve met in years. I was invited to his wedding, am close to his family and just adore him. We are on different sides of the political spectrum but do talk about politics because we are both polite and both have a sense of humor about the extremists in our own parties. In the last couple of weeks, since the violence really heated up in Lebanon, I’ve been horrified to learn that my friend just utterly loathes Israel, Israelis and Jews. He is generally a sensible and fair-minded guy but can’t bring any fairness or balance to this issue and sincerely believes that the best solution to the violence would be the removal and re-settlement of Israelis somewhere else. Now, this is an Oxford and Harvard educated, wealthy man of the world of very liberal sensibilities. He is part of a large group of similarly-situated Pakistani expats in New York and they all, to a person, share his views. I had always thought that most Muslims were moderate, but I’m coming to believe that moderation in Islam is very different from what Americans believe to be moderate and that we really are endangering ourselves by attributing our values to very different cultures.</p>
<p>“But I also remember the nasty Islamophobia that was targeted at Muslims and Arabs, including kids, in areas where I was living after 9/11. In general, there’s just too much bigotry in the world.”</p>
<p>Can you provide some evidence of that? I live in NYC and did so on 9/11 and never saw or heard of any such thing.</p>
<p>zoosermom: Well said! </p>
<p>The title ‘Muslim shoots 6 Jews’ is not racist/xenophobic, when the religious backgrounds of the people involved are relevant to the case at hand. And in this case, they evidently are. </p>
<p>“THe women who wear the headscarf, it is a precept of their religion- it isnt a fashion.”</p>
<p>It may not be a fashion, but it is a CHOICE. I think there is too much emphasis being placed on the RIGHTS of individuals, without their RESPONSIBILITIES being mentioned. Certainly, a person has every right to wear a headscarf. But if they mark themselves out as a member of a group, it is their responsibility to be seen and treated as a member of that group.</p>
<p>Me posted: “There is no current Islamic country because there is no current Islamic government, not even saudi Arabia has an Islaimic government, they have a monarchy and base many of their laws on Islam, but they also violate many of Islam’s laws, like forcing someone to wear the scarf or not allowing women to do certain things as just a few examples…”</p>
<p>Iran is an Islamic country by every definition.</p>
<p>zoosermom: I am a student at Oxford, and I am often completely shocked by the random anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish sentiments I hear from some students here. A friend of mine had a brick thrown through his window because he had an Israeli flag in it. The Palestinian Society quite regularly hosts rallies and speaker events where people call for the destruction of Israel. And for the past two years I have been a student here, the Islamic Society has rejected every single offer by the Jewish Society to join any inter-faith events. </p>
<p>And these are supposedly ‘educated’ people.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, Irriegardless of political stripes, I don’t see how anyone could have missed news of the metro NYC area anti-arab vandalism and personal confrontations (in Passaic and Bergen County NJ, for example) in the days and weeks following the terrost attacks in 2001. And many Arabs and muslims generally were quite cautious just walking about New York City proper at that time.</p>
<p>LakeWashington: I don’t think anyone is denying that Muslims in the West face prejudice. But I would question whether this prejudice is wide-spread amongst the population, or whether it is the case that these views are only held by an ignorant few. </p>
<p>In Iran, for instance, hatred of Jews, Israel and America is practically universal. Just look at some Iranian newspapers. In the West, however, there is no universal belief that ‘Muslims = evil terrorist suicide bombers.’</p>
<p>“Zoosermom, Irriegardless of political stripes, I don’t see how anyone could have missed news of the metro NYC area anti-arab vandalism and personal confrontations (in Passaic and Bergen County NJ, for example) in the days and weeks following the terrost attacks in 2001. And many Arabs and muslims generally were quite cautious just walking about New York City proper at that time.”</p>
<p>Again, can you provide documentation? My sister lives in Bergen county and knows nothing of this. The only actual, verifiable (as opposed to urban legend) incident of bias was toward a Sikh gas station owner in Queens who some dummies thought was a Muslim. You know what? EVERYONE was quite cautious about walking around at that time. With good reason. As for Passaic county, it is very heavily Muslim and I just asked my co-worker (the Muslim Pakistani) who lives there and he said “nonsense.” Now, there was a great deal of hand-wringing on the part of some folks who were sure that the great unwashed masses would attack Muslims, but despite the drama, it simply didn’t happen.</p>
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<p>Oh, this wasn’t stuff that was in the papers, this was me overhearing remarks that people made to other people, seeing anti-Muslim bumper stickers on cars…“everyday” sorts of stuff.</p>
<p>But here’s a couple of links regarding anti-Muslim activity in the U.S:</p>
<p><a href=“http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.hate.crimes/[/url]”>http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.hate.crimes/</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050709/NEWS01/507090489[/url]”>http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050709/NEWS01/507090489</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7809537/[/url]”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7809537/</a> </p>
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<p>There’s a big difference between a few strange or curious looks and a young girl being called a “F**king terrorist” by strangers as was described by the poster who originally brought up the scarf.</p>
<p>Also, zoosermom: I know some Jewish folks with views just as extreme as your Pakistani friend, only from the opposite point of view.</p>
<p>For those who get discouraged by the sad state of affairs and the bigotry from some on both sides (as I do), check out the [url="<a href=“http://web.mit.edu/spotlight/meet-2006/“]article[/url”>http://web.mit.edu/spotlight/meet-2006/"]article[/url</a>] on today’s MIT homepage, and the [url=”<a href="http://meet.csail.mit.edu/blog/“]blog[/url”>http://meet.csail.mit.edu/blog/"]blog[/url</a>] of the program described in the article. It gives me some hope. :)</p>
<p>EDIT: Also, sorry, but I am a pedant. ‘Hindi’ is a language. ‘Hindu’ is a person who follows Hinduism. ‘Hinduism’ is a religion</p>
<p>Well that isn’t what I would call you , but then I haven’t had the opportunities to continue my education that you have. </p>
<p>No, I haven’t forgotten the violence in India, nor have I forgotten the violence in New Orleans, 78 murders so far this year, the 9 murders in 9 days in the Seattle area, ( not counting the recent attack downtown),the 8 people shot in Pittsburgh last night, or that outside of medical complications, pregnant women who die are murdered, usually by someone close to them.
We are a violent species.</p>
<p>Thank you for posting those links, but they don’t prove the statement(s) that were made. I’m not really interested in a spokesman for CAIR’s “gut” feelings.</p>
<p>jessiehl: Yes, there is a difference, and obviously being called a ‘F**king terrorist’ is totally disgusting and unacceptable, and there is no excuse for it. I would question again whether this is the response the poster gets every time she goes out in a headscarf. </p>
<p>emeraldkity4: I did not mean to be offensive. Apologies if you took my comment personally. It was not aimed at anyone specifically. </p>
<p>We are indeed a violent species, but in this case the violence was religiously motivated. That is something that can and should be challenged.</p>
<p>Hello Zoosermom. I do not know you…and you probably don’t know me either. I am not going to try and explain your Pakistani friend’s political stand on the Israel issue on this forum because this topic is impossible to discuss rationally. As such I will not share too much information on the subject.</p>
<p>I will, however, ask you to not assume that Muslims are different from Christians. They aren’t. I am a Catholic (Maronite to be precise) Arab, and I have lived my whole life among Muslims. Having attended a Jesuit boarding school and universities in the US, I understand the Christian mentality all too well. At one time, I had seriously considered becoming a priest. But having lived a significant portion of my life among Muslims, I also know their religion quite intimately. Christians and Muslims share similar values. We worship the same God, we both believe Mary to be blessed among women, we both believe in the imaculate conception, and we both believe that Jesus was a prophet. Can you believe that the Quran is made up of 30 chapters, one of which is entitled Mariam (Mary). No other person has a chapter named after them. Mary truly has a special place in every Muslim’s heart. Muslims even believe that Jesus will deliver humanity on the day of judgement. There are of course some major differences in our believes. Muslims do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God, they do not understand the cocept of the holy trinity and they do not believe Jesus was crucified. Furthermore, they believe that Mohamed was a prophet. But in most ways that matter, Christians and Muslims share a lot in common.</p>
<p>The reason your Pakistani friend feels the way he does is possibly due to an understanding of Middle Eastern politics that you do not possess. Don’t read too much into it, but at the same time, do not be put off by your friend’s personal opinon. If he is like other Pakistanis I have had the pleasure of knowing, he will make his stand by your side when it truly matters.</p>