<p>Thank you for your courtesy Laylah. It seemed you mistakenly thought I meant to compare or rationalize anti-Jewish and anti-Mulsim violence. No such comparison was intended.</p>
<p>As for the wilful blindness of Zoosermom, whom refuses to acknowledge anti-Islamic or Middle Eastern ethnic vandalism in the NJ/NY area (and noted by the group ADL: bricks through a window in Toms River, for example and threatening phone calls elsewhere), just read carefully, as I always try to do;</p>
<p>from Zoosermom today:
9.48am: “I live in NYC and did so on 9-11 and never saw or heard of any such thing.”</p>
<p>10.39am: “It’s an urban legend”…
'I asked my [Pakistani] co-worker and he says “nonsense.”
“…It simply didn’t happen.”</p>
<p>11.50am: “people [posters] shouldn’t make incendiary statements just because they can.”</p>
<p>12.23pm: “Didn’t see it, didn’t hear of it.”
“…ADL link does not support the original statement.”</p>
<p>12.47pm: “I didn’t say there was no anti-muslim sentitment.”</p>
<p>ZM: See, as I said, I think you and I were on different pages for a while. I thought you were disputing my original claim that there was anti-Muslim nastiness that went on after 9/11, rather than LakeWashington’s claim about anti-Muslim nastiness in specific counties. Apparently this is not what you were doing. I do not know the statistics on how the level of either hate crimes in general or anti-Muslim hate crimes fluctuated in the NYC vacinity post-9/11. Perhaps later I will try to find such statistics.</p>
<p>"As for the wilful blindness of Zoosermom, whom refuses to acknowledge anti-Islamic or Middle Eastern ethnic vandalism in the NJ/NY area (and noted by the group ADL: bricks through a window in Toms River, for example and threatening phone calls elsewhere), just read carefully, as I always try to do;</p>
<p>Is that the best you can do? Really now you are completely discredited.</p>
<p>Hoping for my intellectual demise is wishful thinking on your part Zoosermom. You made an error in argument and you don’t have the integrity to acknowledge it. Rather, you ultimately resorted to qualification, backpedaling and really regretful rationalization, particularly the ‘no one’s victimization can compare to mine’ stuff.</p>
<p>"Hoping for my intellectual demise is wishful thinking on your part Zoosermom. You made an error in argument and you don’t have the integrity to acknowledge it. Rather, you ultimately resorted to qualification, backpedaling and really regretful rationalization, particularly the ‘no one’s victimization can compare to mine’ stuff.</p>
<p>Enough said."</p>
<p>Ummm. That’s what you did. I asked you to prove something and you can’t. You made an inflammatory statement that can’t be supported (dare I say that you lied?). Clearly you have some type of agenda and won’t let facts get in your way. It is quite regretful that you are unwilling to admit that you resorted to hyperbole and were caught out. As far as the “victimization” statement, that’s demonstrably false. My post said no such thing, which our fellow posters are literate and intelligent enough to know. Your posts, all of them in this thread, have been utterly disingenuous and we all know it. The truth shall set you free. Enough said.</p>
<p>When I explained the way people react to me wearing a scarf, it wasnt to get sympathy, I knew before I wore it that people would react differently, but I said it to show the fact that America has become so much more stereotypical we begin to judge people by their image, even under the government, if you follow a certain religion they judge you more harshly… and that’s totally against the whole American Ideal, if your a muslim you get stopped at the airport like thirty thousand times, when crossing the border it takes you around 3 hours longer… its become crazy…</p>
<p>I apologize if i started all this arguing :)…</p>
<p>to quote myself: “I don’t see how anyone could have missed reports in metro NYC of anti-arab vandalism and confrontation.”</p>
<p>Gee, to think that one sentence set off some truly strange replies from ONE individual. Even after another poster, Jessie, tried to point out a possible source of confusion or misinterpretation by the individual. Please, will some other poster who is rational and courteous please point out the where Jessie or I said, implicity or otherwise, that there were hoards of anti-arab “Gangs of New York” type mobs roaming the streets and suburbs of New York?</p>
<p>Yep, after re-reading Jessiehl and other posts, I am sure that those weird and argumentative replies from ONE individual whom misread the earlier posts. But I am perplexed how an individual claiming to be a sincere and objective person could make such a leap in judgment.</p>
<p>To clarify for Lake Washington, this is the post for which I asked supporting documentation (and for which none has been provided). If the statement were true, you would have been able to support it but you didn’t because you can’t.</p>
<p>“Zoosermom, Irriegardless of political stripes, I don’t see how anyone could have missed news of the metro NYC area anti-arab vandalism and personal confrontations (in Passaic and Bergen County NJ, for example) in the days and weeks following the terrost attacks in 2001. And many Arabs and muslims generally were quite cautious just walking about New York City proper at that time.”</p>
<p>Oh and as far as Jessie’s links, I actually read them and they support Jessie’s statements, not Lake Washington’s, and I don’t dispute their veracity or themes.</p>
<p>“New Yorkers came together in the aftermath and that some in the media were absolutely drooling at the possibility of hate crimes and when they didn’t materialize, made up things to suit their positions because, after all, it could have happened.” Agree completely, zoosermom. I’m less than a mile from both Bergen & Passaic counties. Ten miles from Manhattan. Also a news junkie. Urban legends.</p>
<p>In a country of 300 million people, it’s quite likely that anti-Muslim crimes were committed. It is a miracle, and a testament to our fairmindedness and tolerance, that so few did occur in those dreadful, terrifying days.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, you still won’t admit your error. My initial post never referred to nor relied upon Jessiehl’s links. I never even read Jessiehl’s links because I knew from whereof I spoke. The organization and document I noted and asked you to scrutinize is…</p>
<p>"Muslims in Paterson and other communities reported incidents of anti-Arab harrassment. Several groups received threatening telephone messages and a window was broken at a mosque in Toms River. In one incident, a false rumor circulated that Muslims in Paterson had staged a celebratory demonstration and rioted in a city neighborhood after the World Trade Center tragedy.</p>
<p>Shai Goldstein, Director of the ADL New Jersey Regional Office, issued a statement comdeming attacks on houses of worship and declaring Islam a valuable part of America’s faith community. His statement was published as part of a news story and was featured as part of an editorial in the Bergen Record…"</p>
<p>You know Zoosermom, I suspect you knew about this specific ADL statement, but for whatever reason, you chose to argue instead. Incidentally, Is the City of Paterson not situated in Passaic County? And is the major daily newspaper “The Bergen Record” not distributed in Bergen County, the most populated county in NJ?</p>
<p>As I said before, you began to backpedal even to Jessiehl and you qualified sdubsequent statements that you directed at me. I can see a person honestly making a mistake and then honorably acknowledging it. But you chose not to demonstrate such straightforward conduct. I believe your conduct is quite poor. But that’s my opinion. Judge for yourself, fellow posters.</p>
<p>Oh and by the way Zoosermom, if you find where I allegedly said “hate crime,” I’ll gladly pay you. But of course I suspect that you knew full well that by misquoting me to use the words ‘hate crimes,’ you would invoke angry images of physical assaults, and thereby further invoke reverberations from honest folks who would rightly view that term as in unnecesarily controversial, as oppossed to “vandalism,” which is the term I actually used in my initial post. I’ll do you the courtesy of not calling you a liar, as you did me.</p>
<p>Lake Washington continues to twist and spin: "Zoosermom, you still won’t admit your error. My initial post never referred to nor relied upon Jessiehl’s links. I never even read Jessiehl’s links because I knew from whereof I spoke. The organization and document I noted and asked you to scrutinize is…</p>
<p>"Muslims in Paterson and other communities reported incidents of anti-Arab harrassment. Several groups received threatening telephone messages and a window was broken at a mosque in Toms River. In one incident, a false rumor circulated that Muslims in Paterson had staged a celebratory demonstration and rioted in a city neighborhood after the World Trade Center tragedy.</p>
<p>Shai Goldstein, Director of the ADL New Jersey Regional Office, issued a statement comdeming attacks on houses of worship and declaring Islam a valuable part of America’s faith community. His statement was published as part of a news story and was featured as part of an editorial in the Bergen Record…"</p>
<p>Interesting how the link doesn’t work, isn’t it? But even relying on your quote, it still doesn’t prove your earlier statement, it just doesn’t. You can sing and dance all you want, but your statement is not supported by any facts. Perhaps you were talking off the cuff and didn’t mean the original statement to be taken literally. Spreading of rumors doesn’t rise to the level of the post that I took exception to, and the Goldstein statement speaks for itself and does not make your case.</p>
<p>"Oh and by the way Zoosermom, if you find where I allegedly said “hate crime,” I’ll gladly pay you. But of course I suspect that you knew full well that by misquoting me to use the words ‘hate crimes,’ "</p>
<p>Where did I quote you in that way? Please show me.</p>
<p>Barrons, I happen to agree with you; the reported incidents [from my non-arab point of view] were “relatively mild.” That’s why my posts all said “vandalism.” Geez louise.</p>
<p>I imagine that I got my bloomers in a bunch because a respondent referenced the mood of NYC after the terrorist attack and seemed to imply that he/her himself felt beset by sorrow more than others, so others need not comment. </p>
<p>Well, as I said Barrons, you’re quite right. Time to giddyap. I tell you, there’s something in the water that produces plain common sense in the great northwest. Or do you get your intellectual timber from Lynchburg? That’s a compliment.</p>