My 8th Grader is a Bully

Parent Cafe
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<p>I’m going to disagree with some of the other posters who have recommended that you try to explain things to your son, teach him, or try to exhort him to change his behavior. I also disagree with the punishment approach, if that’s the only strategy applied.</p>

<p>My son was a bully in elementary school. We became aware of the problem in Kindergarten and worked closely with his teachers up through 5th grade. So the first thing I’d share, from our experience, is that this will take time, probably several years.</p>

<p>A strategy called “positive attribution” worked well for us. You can Google this phrase and find articles about how to use it in a school/family setting. In a nutshell, rather than lecture or urge someone to change bullying behavior, you might respond with a positive: “You are the sort of person who can understand how someone else is feeling. You’re not the sort of person who would knowingly hurt another kid.” But we also coupled this with real consequences any time we learned of a bullying incident.</p>

<p>What ultimately changed his behavior for good was switching schools entirely. In 7th grade, he entered a school so far removed from his previous neighborhood that he had to make new friends. I would recommend that as a last resort move, because there is some published research out there concluding that over half the kids identified as bullies in childhood end up having problems with abusive behavior as adults.</p>

<p>Our story has a positive ending, because our son’s problematic behavior ended in 7th grade, and these days other adults in the community and teachers uniformly remark on what a great person he is, and he has now a large network of really good friends…very nice kids. Several months ago I overheard him talking with a friend, and he said something like, “In elementary school, I was a total douchbag. I was just a mean little kid.” So he has definitely become very self-aware and has reconciled with this aspect of his past.</p>

<p>Like the other posters, I applaud you for recognizing the problem and starting to address it. I wish you all the best.</p>

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<p>I like the suggestions - keep them coming! I googled positive attribution but didn’t come up with much. Did you have a specific book that helped? I would really like to have something concrete to try.</p>

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<p>You could start here:
Susan M. Swearer, Dorothy L. Espelage, Scott A. Napolitano, Bullying Prevention and Intervention: Realistic Strategies for Schools</p>

<p>Pamela Orpinas, Arthur M. Horne, Bullying Prevention: Creating a Positive School Climate and Developing Social Competence</p>

<p>If you go to the Google Books website, you should be able to browse through these two books; both have sections related to attribution theory.</p>

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<p>CalAlum, thanks for the happy ending.</p>

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<p>CalAlum,
Did you at least make your son apologize to the children that he bullied? I think it is very important that bullies be made to do this.</p>

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<p>Dear Sureofsomething,
I honor you as a good parent trying to do the right thing. I was bullied unmercifully in junior high, and although the memories are painful, I feel sorrier for the bullies than I do for myself–because although it was unpleasant, I don’t have reason to feel shame for my part in what I did. My mother told me that she met a man who had a brain tumor who had bullied me as a child and he apologized to her for what he had done to me before he died (I didn’t know about this till later)–oh, that pains me to think that this is one of his last thoughts! If only the adults had stopped him before he shamed himself this way. And he is one of the lucky ones, because he actually did have a conscience. Children who are bullies often turn out poorly–have poor academic skills, go to jail, etc. It was once assumed that this was because the children had low self-esteem, but more recently it has been discovered that many of them have inappropriately high self-esteem. </p>

<p>I have two suggestions for you. One is to look into the work of Dan Olweus, a Norwegian who has come up with brilliant research and insights into bullying. </p>

<p>The other is to get your child into therapy right away. There are therapists who deal specifically with bullying–both for bullies and the bullied. You are a caring parent, and you are right to do whatever you can so that your child doesn’t hurt his image of himself in a way that will cause him pain for the rest of his life.</p>

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<p>I cannot believe I actually read this. First off, you are right that it is none of your business. Second, the poster says there have been a “few incidents”. She isn’t reporting a lifelong problem here – something that has come to her attention. There is no reason to believe that she has failed to teach empathy and compassion. Clearly, she herself is empathetic and compassionate and concerned, so its clear her kid’s had a great role model and thus been “taught” because example teaches better than anything else. Also, why do people think you have to run to a psychologist at the very first sign of a problem? Lots of problems can be resolved by parents. Psychologists are for problems that can’t be handled by parents. Lastly, as far as I’m concerned, your post was cruel and lacking in empathy and compassion. Maybe you need to go and learn some empathy and compassion. What purpose was served by those comments? It sounds like bullying to me.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure if this is a good idea. It’s probably best for the bully, but for the victims it may seem like one final humiliation.</p>

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<p>That’s probably because one of the easier coping mechanisms is to desensitize yourself to the world around you. It should be easy to see why he would write/think that, even if it’s not really justified. Maybe you need to go and learn some empathy and compassion. What purpose was served by those comments? It sounds like bullying to me.</p>

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<p>sureofsomething, have you ever asked your son how he rationalizes his bullying behavior?</p>

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<p>Yes. Through grades K-5, every time our child hurt someone else, he apologized. But I’d have to say, simply asking a child to apologize doesn’t necessarily solve this problem, if other interventions aren’t put in place and followed consistently.</p>

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<p>I agree 100% with mimk6’s post #27. </p>

<p>It’s ridiculous to attack the OP and tell them it’s <em>all</em> their fault. She found out about the bullying and is obviously distressed. She’s addressing the problem, and came here for helpful advice from other parents. </p>

<p>I also think empathy develops a lot easier (and earlier) to some kids than others. I see broad differences even in my own four. My daughter, who is sensitive and fairly passive, was bullied as a new student in her middle school. When I found out I was furious, and assumed the worst about the children in question. I also have to admit that she was more forgiving than I was. Now - about 5 years later, time has passed, and while they are not best buddies, everyone gets along just fine. I think there are many reasons for bullying - ignorance, immaturity, insecurity, etc. Ignorance is dangerous though, and I agree that one HAS to help the bullier recognize the danger, and the damage it can do. Just look at that poor girl in Massachusetts.</p>

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<p>I agree that blaming the OP is over-the-top in this situation. I’ve been around a lot of 8th gr boys and they can be just plain awkward. It sounds like from the other posts by the OP that he is having a hard time picking up social cues. Many years ago I heard the term “peer correction”. When a kid is not acting in an appropriate manner, his/her friends will make it pretty clear that it is not appropriate. I’m not talking about extreme behavior here. But I’ve seen many a kid mature due to “peer correction”.</p>

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<p>If you could make an appointment with a child psychologist to discuss this, I think it would be helpful. Then a few appointments with your son could follow. We had a wonderful child psychologist who helped my D so much with some family issues. It was a big comfort to me that I was handling things correctly and I think it was money well spent.</p>

<p>My D had three incidents when she was bullied. In two of those, the moms found out about the behavior and made their D’s apologize. One mom drove her D over to our house to deliver a written apology to my D for mean phone calls and toilet papering our trees. I was impressed that the mom did that. (I’m not saying you should do that, just recounting what happened to us.)</p>

<p>And ignore that poster who said this is all your fault. Clearly not a parent.</p>

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<p>But rom828, a lot of kids that age sort of feed on each other, and their behavior as a group can become the norm. So if they’re all into mean behavior and bullying, they aren’t going to correct each other. At that age, they’ll all be trying to top each other. </p>

<p>In the worst of the three bullying situations my D dealt with, the mean girl in her high school group forced my D out of the group. This was a group of great kids, with two brothers in the group who have been family friends since preschool. This girl cut my D out of the group for no reason other than her own jealousy. Several of the kids stayed friends with my D, but she was not welcome in group activities because this girl was the ringleader. There was no corrective behavior for the mean girl at that time. She was finally dropped later after breaking the hearts of TWO of the guys in the group.</p>

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<p>OP, thank you for having the awareness and courage to recognize this behavior in your son. A lot of parents put on the blinders–“Not my kid!” or “[victim] must have brought it upon himself somehow.” The very fact that you recognize bullying behavior and are prepared to do something about it puts you ahead of the game for stopping this behavior.</p>

<p>I was bullied extensively in grade school, and it really does take a horrible toll. I remember in sixth grade thinking “only three more years until I’m out of this school” and counting the days. Being bullied made me suspicious of other kids and even some gestures that I now recognize as friendly or neutral, at the time I rebuffed because I was so used to being teased. I couldn’t trust anyone; I had been hurt too much. Although I don’t agree with Gaiden’s earlier remark, I understand where it came from . . . being bullied can rot you from the inside out until you’re ready to lash out at everyone. So don’t judge him too harshly.</p>

<p>When I was in seventh grade, one of the kids in my class died in a skiing accident. When I heard he was dead, my first feeling was relief and happiness that I would never have to see him again, never be called another name by him. My second feeling was guilt for thinking that. He wasn’t an evil kid. But I couldn’t help looking at him through the lens of MY experiences with him, and they had been negative and cruel. To this day, although I intellectually feel regret for the loss of a young life with potential, I can’t feel true regret for him. Being bullied took that away from me. It embittered me.</p>

<p>I wonder if bullies truly understand how their victims feel. My guess is most of them don’t think about it . . . They’re focused on themselves, making themselves feel strong, making themselves popular, showing everyone the power they have over someone else. </p>

<p>I’m sorry that I don’t have any specific advice for dealing with your son, but maybe you’ll be able to glean something helpful from this post anyway. I hope so.</p>

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<p>I also have known some victims & truthfully- some of them provoke it.</p>

<p>There is an interesting dynamic and for kids either way- it can be hard to keep from getting sucked in.</p>

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<p>I also have known some victims & truthfully- some of them provoke it.
^^^</p>

<p>I know many will want to respond to this in disagreement or even anger as some might take it to mean that it is the fault of the victim. Emeraldcity makes an interesting point, though. Part of the work that needs to be done about bullying is to teach children ways to protect themselves from it and respond to it when it happens. As a teacher, I have seen many instances where a child will almost seem to set themselves up for taunts. It is hard to watch and hard to explain. As a teacher and adult, of course, the bully must be made accountable and the bullying cannot be tolerated. St the same time, part of the work in the schools and at home is to help teach the potential victims skills that may help them to avoid being victimized. And how to respond when it does happen. Please don’t interpret this as EXCUSING the bully in any way. I have no tolerance for bullying and do not mean to imply that it is the fault of the victim. However, as Emeraldcity points out, the dynamic is interesting and sometimes complex and the problem needs to be looked at from all angles in order to resolve it</p>

<p>As an adult, I have found one particular phrase to be very helpful when someone makes an unkind comment to me. I respond with “Why would you say that?” It is very affective at taking the person to task without making it into a huge deal. I say it without anger and with a tone of curiosity. It usually stops the person in their tracks. By giving children simple phrases with which to respond, we might be able to help them to stop the bullying behavior toward them before it becomes a pattern.</p>

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<p>I never saw victims that I believed provoked bullying. But I agree with the second sentence. This is why we moved our son to a completely different school.</p>

<p>I think a sort of social ecosystem can develop in school in which children come to have “expected roles.” Even in kindergarten, there are the popular kids; there are the loner kids; there are the jokers; there are the victims; there are the bullies. You know how they say it takes a village to raise a child? It takes a playground to create a victim. If every other child rose up and challenged the bully, it would stop. But what happens is that there are other children besides the bully with a vested interest in having some other children be at the lowest rung of the status hierarchy. And sometimes the popular kids find a bully very useful, especially when the bully can act on their behalf. It’s complicated, and it’s not an easy fix. </p>

<p>After several years of working with our son, we felt he was ready to change, but that it would be impossible at his school. When he enrolled in a completely different setting, he could “start over,” and he did. That was about six years ago, so yes – it is possible to have a happy ending.</p>

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<p>Sureofsomething, if you live near NYC, you get lunch on me! Congratulations for being one of the only parents I have ever seen admitting that his/her child is the bully. Most every parent will say the kid is with the wrong crowd, not that he IS the wrong crowd. You are closer to a solution than the 99% of those parents who have not even gotten to where you are. </p>

<p>I’m not about to offer any advice in that area. My kids had issues and problems that were horribly hard to address and solve despite advice galore about them, and with such situations very common now and historically. Sigh. I don’t think there are easy solutions for breaking our kids of bad characteristics. But we have to try, try, try. THat is what parenting is. Cyber hugs to you.</p>

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<p>As a parent- I volunteered a lot in classrooms- some my own childs- some other classrooms.
Mostly small schools- and I got to know many of the kids and parents over years.
I even quit my job at one point, because the school/parent/teachers needed so much help and I was there every day. ( also because my child was in SPED- and wasn’t going to pullout- because she couldn’t tell time and neither her classroom teacher or the resource teacher let her know)</p>

<p>This is just to give my perspective of how it isn’t actually one sided all of the time.
A couple kids come to mind- who seemed to be on the short end of the stick social skills wise.</p>

<p>For instance one boy- ( in elementary school) had been conditioned to whine( probably by his mother- who seemed to reinforce it) when he didnt like something- he also was physically slight and had a hard time engaging in class or with the other students. </p>

<p>Possibly because most of them had been in class together, it was difficult to get away from patterns they had set for themselves.</p>

<p>Anyway- for example- the students might be working in small groups, but Stewie is having difficulty finding a group.</p>

<p>He heads for the group that he wants to belong to " the alpha boys" ( I put this in quotations because in this class- it wasn’t really the boys who were alpha, but a few girls- however he wanted to be accepted by the boys).</p>

<p>They are already working on something, and he tells them what they are doing wrong and how they should let him do it- the group isn’t as good with words- so they push him away.
Teacher separates them- disciplines the boys.</p>

<p>Later in the afternoon, Stewie is frustrated on the playground possibly because no one is paying attention, and he taunts the boys about getting in trouble earlier- gets him attention and he gets satisfaction when they again push him and they get into trouble.</p>

<p>I have seen this over and over again.
I doubt everyone even realizes what is happening.
I have been on a bus ( on a long field trip) with a girl who really has few social skills, has been through foster care most of her life, although she is now adopted & has people who would consider her their friends.
( this girl was also in my daughters girl scout troop)
However, even though they are trying to engage her ( this was middle school), they were also trying not to get into her cycle of negative interaction. She kept criticizing them, and they eventually told her they weren’t going to argue and that she should listen to what she was saying.
This just escalated it, as she became furious and really started pushing all their buttons and they said hurtful things to her.</p>

<p>It was hard to take- but as she had a skill of knowing what buttons to push and who most likely was able to react, I can’t help but see that she had more power than she might admit or realize, but she was having a hard time realizing that they were trying to be her friends.</p>

<p>My older daughter was also “bullied” in the first classroom situation,( this was mostly 5th grade). Another girl, physically larger, ( and possibly jealous of my daughters " girly" appearance) found where her buttons were. D was verbal, not quick with retorts, she would be very frustrated when " the bully" would answer for her in class, and would push her on the stairway.</p>

<p>Although the adults were aware of the conflict- it didn’t really get much better- but D was changing schools for middle school anyway.
I was relieved, until I saw her moms come in to the early fall parent meeting at her new school!
They eventually became friends and worked it out after all the parents decided to have more opportunities outside of school to get together.</p>

<p>I am not saying all bullies are provoked- but I also don’t think most children are " bad", however- social skills take a long time to learn and even adults have to learn how to deal with stress in a positive fashion.</p>

<p>Pushing buttons is a way to get attention/take attention off yourself.</p>

<p>Sometimes negative attention is better than no attention. * in their minds<a href=“for%20bullies%20and%20for%20victims”>/i</a>
It can also be difficult to get out of the rut of other peoples expectations, even for adults.</p>

<p>Even though I like smaller schools, when there isn’t another classroom to go to- it can really hard to change your idea of yourself, when everyone else treats you the same way they always have.</p>