My chance to top 20 universities [international, 4.0 UW, 1530 SAT, Psychology, <$90k]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics China

  • international student
  • State/Location of residency: Beijing
  • Type of high school (or current college for transfers): Public
  • Other special factors: (first generation to college, legacy, recruitable athlete, etc.) No

Cost Constraints / Budget
(High school students: please get a budget from your parents and use the Net Price Calculators on the web sites of colleges of interest.) 90K USD per year

Intended Major(s) Psychology

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: (calculate it yourself if your high school does not calculate it) 4.0
  • Weighted HS GPA: (must specify weighting system; note that weighted GPA from the high school is usually not informative, unless aligned with the recalculation used by a college of interest, such as CA, FL, SC public universities) 4.3
  • College GPA: (for transfer applicants)
  • Class Rank: 5%
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 1530 (730+800)

List your HS coursework AP Calculus BC, AP Statistics, AP Physics 1, AP Physics CM, AP Psychology, Advanced Math, Chinese, Biology, English, Chemistry, Geography, Computer Science, Music

(Indicate advanced level, such as AP, IB, AICE, A-level, or college, courses as well as specifics in each subject) AP Calculus BC, AP Statistics, AP Physics 1, AP Physics CM, AP Psychology

  • English: AP English Language
  • Math: (including highest level course(s) completed) AP Calculus BC, AP Statistics
  • Science: (including which ones, such as biology, chemistry, physics) AP Physics 1, AP Physics CM, Biology, Chemistry, Geography, Computer Science,
  • History and social studies: AP Psychology, Chinese and world history, AP Macroeconomics
  • Language other than English: (including highest level completed)
  • Visual or performing arts: Music
  • Other academic courses:

College Coursework (Transfer Applicants)
(Include college courses taken while in high school if not included above.)

  • General education course work:
  • Major preparation course work:

Awards

  1. Outstanding Yuanpei Young Scholar Award; Paper published in Harvard YSA
  2. HOSA: Silver in Behav. Health, Outstanding in Health Edu.
  3. Outstanding Club President, High school
  4. Global Gold Award and Best in School Award, SMC
  5. Meritorious Award, 2023 HiMCM Competition

Extracurriculars
(Include leadership, summer activities, competitions, volunteering, and work experience)

Research program - Yuanpei Young Scholar Program ( Paper published in Harvard YSA journal)

Research program - CCIR (Cambridge Centre for International Research)

Research program - Innovative Talents Science Training Program (Psychology)

Vice President, High school Peer Tutor Club (2 years)

Vice President, High school Psychology Club ( 2 years)

Independent project - Suggesting broadcasting music in Beijing Subway

Carpentry

Music (Tuba)

Social Anxiety Awareness Project

Harvard Pre-college program

Personal writing on Evolutionary Psychology

Online volunteer teaching (2 years)

Essays/LORs/Other
(Optionally, guess how strong these are and include any other relevant information or circumstances.)

Schools
(List of colleges by your initial chance estimate; designate if applying ED/EA/RD; if unsure, leave them unclassified) ED: Cornell, JHU, WashU or Vanderbilt, RD: Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Carnegie Mellon, Rice, Emory, etc. Top 30 universities.

If a scholarship is necessary for affordability, indicate that you are aiming for a scholarship and use the scholarship chance to estimate it into the appropriate group below; also, for colleges that admit by major or division, consider that in chance estimate.

  • Assured (100% chance of admission and affordability):
  • Extremely Likely:
  • Likely:
  • Toss-up:
  • Lower Probability:
  • Low Probability:
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Thanks!

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Please read this thread I’m about to link. The student in it was a very strong student. Class Val, NMF, excellent ECs, excellent LOR, just a top student. And he was a US citizen so didn’t have the same climb as you do as an international (acceptances for international students are typically 1/2 the %age of citizens and permanent residents).

No one expected this very strong student would be rejected from every college he applied to during his senior year. But that’s what happened.

In my opinion, your list of schools is very very top heavy. You (like the student in this thread) are a strong student, but so are almost all the others who apply to these top schools. You need some more sure things for admissions.

So…please read this thread…read all of it. This student did land on his feet after a gap year, but his last year in high school was not a happy time.

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So the idea there is a consensus top 20 undergrad programs in the United States, for all purposes, solely at research universities, is largely a fiction based on the US News rankings.

Psychology in particular is a field that has strong undergrad departments at all sorts of different US colleges and universities. Just to give some idea, I think it is worth checking out this list of top feeders to Psychology PhD programs, total on the left (which favors larger research universities), and per capita on the right (which introduces a lot more smaller colleges, aka Liberal Arts and Sciences Colleges, or LACs):

Studies like this need to be taken with some caution because they lack all sorts of controls, and of course not everyone is interested in graduate programs. But what they show is that a wide variety of colleges and universities can do a very good job supporting their top Psychology undergrads in competitive placements.

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How well do you play the tuba? Seriously, tuba players are hard to come by, but they’re needed for orchestras, brass chamber ensembles, and marching and mariachi bands. Believe it of not, if you’re a good tuba player, that could be what puts you over the edge.

You are a very strong student who doesn’t need fin aid. If you are a very good tuba player, I recommend you put Harvard on your list. #1 Psych in the nation, and they need tuba players badly for their ensembles.

The fact that you don’t need fin aid will make you very desirable for many very good schools who are looking for qualified, full-pay students.

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It is very difficult to predict chances for international students, other than to say that you are a very competitive student. For Cornell or Stanford being a very competitive student still leaves your chances as being in the low single digit percentage range.

I think that your chances would be quite good at the University of Toronto, which the last time I looked was ranked in the top 20. The same would be true for UBC. I still do not think that I would call them safeties. Psychology is a field where some form of graduate program is likely, and I do know several people who have gotten their bachelor’s degrees in Canada (including for some at U.Toronto), and then gotten graduate degrees at very good universities in the US.

Years ago there was an article in the Stanford alumni magazine about admissions. In what might have been a discussion of how hard it was to predict admissions, they mentioned that for someone who is a tuba player, your chances might depend upon whether the Stanford “marching” band happens to need a tuba player for next year. I put “marching” in quotes because the Stanford band, at least when I was there, did not actually march. They ran in apparently random disorder from formation to formation, but always got to the next formation quickly and pretty close to all at once. I found this quite entertaining at the time and still quite like the idea.

I have had a couple of very pleasant and interesting trips to Beijing, and I hope that you have the opportunity to come and study over here.

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Thank you very much for your valuable suggestions!

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Appreciate your valuable suggestions!

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Thanks for your valuable suggestions!

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Thank you for your valuable suggestions! I started playing the tuba at the age of 8. I was pretty good at it, but not a top player. The wind band I was in during my elementary school won first place in a national competition. After I entered middle school, I formed my own band and played the tuba.

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Appreciate your valuable suggestions!!

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All that will matter for non-conservatory, non-music major programs would be a music supplement. Practice up to make a three minute tape of you playing tuba, showing lyrical and technical ability. Work with your private teacher on this - if you don’t have one, get one. Even a few lessons will help. Submit the tape with your application.

It’s just that tuba players are so hard to come by, but very necessary for ensembles. It really helps in applications to schools that don’t have a conservatory or performance music majors, but do have on-campus student music ensembles.

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I completely agree with submitting a music supplement if your skills are good ones.

But I will say…it might help your application. It isn’t a guarantee. I say this with experience. My kid was an oboe and English horn player, another “endangered” instrument. Many many schools have difficulty getting oboe players for ensembles, and they love having an English horn player (who also owns their own high end instruments). My kid actually was able to take lessons with the applied instrument teachers everywhere she applied. She was not accepted to her reach school, but was accepted at the other places where she applied.

The music people at the colleges to which she applied were very clear…her instrument and ability (she was a top player in our state) had zero impact on her admissions. But they were very happy to have her in their ensembles for all four years.

If you want to play in ensembles, I would suggest you contact the music department chairs, applied music teacher for tuba, and the ensemble directors at the colleges of interest. They were very helpful for our kid.

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Can you elaborate ?

Zero effect because such skill was not needed for a university activity ?

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Sure. Her oboe playing skill absolutely was needed. She played first chair oboe all four years she was an undergrad. And because she had an English horn and was a capable player, they were able to use that instrumentation during the four years she was there. But in each case, the applied teacher, and orchestra director told her that the music department had no sway with admissions in terms of moving the needle. But if she got accepted, she was welcome to be in the orchestra (which is what she wanted).

But I do agree that in some cases a music supplement might move the needle at some schools. But it’s certainly not a guarantee.

Plus, it is usually suggested that a supplement be sent if the student is a very good player…so this needs to be considered as well.

@compmom

She received a small performance scholarship each quarter as long as she played in the orchestra.

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Thank you for your response. Very interesting.

Was unaware of scholarships that were renewed on a quarterly basis–seems more like an on-campus job.

Thank You. The wording was unclear to me. Thanks.

P.S. The free music lessons is attractive. Have you openly shared her current school ? (Interested if yes; otherwise no need to share.)

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It wasn’t “renewed”. It was awarded annually based on her participating in orchestra all three quarters in the academic year…which she did.

Her college also gave her private lessons at no cost.

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@ bj_zhaojie you have not posted any info on music accomplishments that would lead me to believe that a music supplement will make a difference. But certainly indicate that you play (and play well) on your application. You may very well be very talented and accomplished and have been modest here, so if so, then yes, do a supplement :slight_smile:
I
I really don’t know what colleges are looking for these days since our experience was quite a few years ago. Curricula at a place like Harvard, for instance, has changed from total focus on traditional classical skills (and favoring supplements from students at conservatory preps) to trying to increase access and diversity.

Nevertheless, a tuba is indeed often needed. Still, your focus seems to be on science , psychology and research . One school I might suggest is Clark U. in Worcester MA which is strong in psychology.

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Yes…most folks here know my oboe playing kid graduated from Santa Clara University.

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Ok. Thanks for your valuable advice!! :slight_smile: