@clarinetDad16 - short answer, no. While there are certainly unqualified candidates who audition, there are huge numbers of crazy talented kids who don’t get accepted to any given BFA program. If you are unfamiliar with the process (as your question suggests) think of it like admissions to an Ivy (where they reject any number of valedictorians with perfect test scores) and then multiply. Ivies have admission rates that vary between 5-10%. Top BFAs have rates as low as 2% (or less)
And @ClarinetDad16 on average each BFA theatre program only accepts around 8 to 25 kids each year.
some highly competitive music schools only accept one on an instrument many years, but some years none.
i would think there are so many high schools each that put on a play and some of those minimally qualified kids flood the admissions for the lottery chance. But in the end the best shine through.
Similar to the analogy above with the valedictorian which can out of a non competitive school who simply doesn’t meet the standards of an Ivy.
You’re missing the point…hundreds of equally qualified kids are turned away from the Ivies simply because there isn’t enough room…same for BFA programs.
How many schools are at the “unified” auditions that the kids are “applying” to at the same time? You realize that does not exist for music performance majors?
If they had to all travel to NYU or Carnegie Mellon etc their applications would be significantly lower
@ClarinetDad16 - I can assure you that for every single kid that gets a spot in a top BFA program there were dozens more equally qualified. Some people get lots of acceptances, some none- and it isn’t a reflection of pure talent. Beyond the skill you have to fit the program needs etc. also, I feel I have to say (MY viewpoint only everyone else may feel differently) your question/comments sound a touch…condescending? I apologize if that is not your intention
I’m just hearing @ClarinetDad16 feeling that top music conservatory admissions are equally - or even more - difficult, and he may well be correct! We certainly know nationally-competitive young musicians who were unable to attend their dream schools. 
Is the real point that there is no point in crushing on a favorite school because it won’t help you get in?
In reply to OP, my D was another one in love with 1 program until we visited for her audition. At the end of the day, we got in the car & she said she wouldn’t attend if they called her the next day and offered her a spot. And on the flip side, the school where she ended up (Wright State) was somewhere in the middle of her list (Dayton, Ohio is not exactly glamorous!) until she auditioned on campus. It jumped to the top - that car comment was “this is where I want to go to school.” Luckily she got in, but the moral is that it was not high on her list to begin with. Sing with me: “It’s all about that fit, 'bout that fit…”
I just want to say that I completely agree that admission to a top conservatory for an instrument is incredibly tough. I have no direct knowledge of how it works- I have watched several kids do it in last couple years- they ended up at CCM (piano) and Eastman (violin). I have no idea how application numbers compare. I didn’t like the “fun major” comment. But I am in a very odd mood today- could be just me.
@toowonderful is there a pre-screening for unifieds?
If there is not, and I have no idea how it works truly any kid can try out for many schools at one time in a single location?
If that is the case it would seem to me the highly qualified are sandwiched alongside those with nothing to lose.
Some schools prescreen. Some don’t. There are definitely kids that have no business in the room, but as everyone has said, more than enough to take up the slots. Didn’t someone say that CMU seriously considers 2-3 kids out of every 50-person audition session – and then has to cut that 100-150 group or so down to 12 for the final cut? So you’re both right.
Those with nothing to lose have quite a bit to lose( $65 an application, times minimum of 10 schools, travel to and from Unifieds, hotel stays, coaching, transcript and testing score costs) …I don’t think too many kids frivolously apply…I could be wrong.
@ClarinetDad16 - how many kids are auditioning for the one clarinet spot? ( before or after a prescreen). Even if 1/2 of the kids who auditioned for CMU were unqualified - there are still 1200 for 12 spots.
What is the problem with unifieds? I fail to see how that lowers the quality of the candidate
@MTmom2017 lol!!! singing right along with you! We will have visited all by mid Dec. so I will check back in to let you all know if anything has shifted spots!!!
Similar to the many kids who throw their hats in the ring at Harvard with zero chance of admission, there are certainly kids who apply for the “name brand” MT programs who will never be admitted.
On the other hand, after Book of Mormon became a mega-hit, suddenly every school wanted one Elder Cunningham in their class, while the previous year those kids might not have had a prayer of admission to a top program, so the concept of “unemployable” in the MT world is a bit more malleable than in the Clarinet universe.
I usually don’t post on this thread since my D is in VP…now grad school. But many moons ago she auditioned for a number of MT programs as she really wanted to do that.
To original OP, you can talk until you are blue in the face (and should) but many high school seniors will have their own thoughts and dreams…and may learn things the hard way. There’s no parental (or student) failure in that. It’s just growing up. Kind of like watching a car crash but you can’t control them at this age. And they do learn from a crash.
Auditioning is a process. The schools (and UG program!!) my D picked each time where very different from what she thought in the fall. Auditioning is incredible stressful and the wait on acceptances is torture…but you all learn where you should be. It’s a big growing up moment…and often the decisions are right (even if they feel disappointing at first). My D should have been in VP and it took the auditions to drive that point home. She got accepted at good MT programs but seeing the competition and seeing the reactions from VP (including money) showed her the way.
As for the different in music and MT auditions, I’ll say this and try not to offend:
If you take out the very top conservatories (Curtis can take 1 singer a year), in most music schools, I dare say acceptances are higher as a percentage of applicants. However there are fewer applicants and this has to do with the pre-screening requirements. The expectations are quite high TECHNICALLY for musicians. If you can’t sing in 3 languages at 17 from specific periods and composers, they simply say don’t apply. There also is no unified auditions. You need to pre-screen and be invited to the school. There are a few regional auditions but only for one school (not a group typically). So it’s a big investment in money and time to audition. And auditions last about 5 minutes after which you get to a take a theory test. So fun!!!
The talent level for MT is amazing - sing, dance and act. There is no comparing a triple threat to an opera singer. They are all talented. MT auditions do however seem more accessible to more students. There are Unified for example. At a few MT auditions (with no pre-screenings and very reputable programs), my D said that where quite a few students in the dance audition that maaaybeee shouldn’t have been there. Auditions could be short 5 - 10 minutes but most did work with her and engage her and checked all 3 elements.
We went to two schools (both with MT and VP programs) and had our 10 minutes with the music school (and you were lucky if they talked to you) and then had a whole 3 hour program for MT with even a parents program! The music schools make little effort to entertain parents.
In the end, both programs have plenty of talent to choose from and unfortunately there is so much talent that good people do get rejected from dream schools…but then accepted at where they really should be.
This is from 4+ years ago so maybe there is more pre-screening in MT…and I could be wrong … but that’s my experience.
@ClarinetDad16, just so you have a better understanding of Unifieds…the kids don’t audition for a number of schools at once. So, it’s not one audition for, say, 20 schools. Rather, 20+ colleges and universities with MT programs go to a particular building in NYC (or Chicago, Las Vegas and LA, the 4 Unified cities - although NY and Chicago are the big ones) over a particular long weekend, and the kids who have applied to the schools and passed any necessary prescreens audition for the schools singly, one by one. Almost all of the schools require an application and many require a prescreen BEFORE they are allowed to audition. And trust me, many kids do not get an audition. So the kids and the schools have to juggle the appointment times. Some auditions take 4 hours - others take 3 minutes (depending on the school). At least 27 of the programs require a prescreen (and I’m sure we’re missing some). So, while I’m sure there are some kids there who have no business being at Unifieds because of their talent level, they are definitely in the minority. The vast majority of these kids are polished and professional and uber-talented.
Most kids these days (especially the girls) audition for 12 to 20 schools. Some schools do not go to Unifieds. So, just as an example, my D (who is currently a junior in college) applied to 16 schools, and was only able to audition for 5 of them at Unifieds. The remaining 11 we had to drive or fly to. My total cost for applications and auditioning was roughly $15,000 when all is said and done (flights, hotels, meals, cabs, gas, etc.). No one goes into this lightly. It is expensive and can be really tough on the ego. This alone tends to weed out the kids doing it for a lark, or, as you put it, with nothing to lose.
I guess the point I’m trying to get across is that the competition is stiff, and while you’re right that there are SOME kids who aren’t up to snuff, the vast majority are competitive. There are a few kids who get into many schools, but most only get into a few (or even just one), and yes…a lot don’t get in anywhere.
It’s interesting-when we visited CCM (general tour) they were by FAR the coldest of any school we visited- they wanted to talk about their stein ways and how fabulous they were. No “sales” pitch at all. To be fair- when we were with MT they were really nice. Maybe it’s a classical music thing
@toowonderful - Our CCM MT audition experience was not a whole lot different from your general tour experience. Even though S grew up in their prep department and had it at the top of “the list” from an early age, the experience knocked the program down to the bottom of the list. Yes, visits and audition experiences ultimately shape the “dream school” priorities.
@ClarinetDad16 - not all MT students avail themselves of unifieds, but instead choose to audition separately at each school (for us, 8 schools, for others up to 20 or more). Like @monkey13 - thousands of dollars were spent by our family on prescreen prep and filming (no two are alike), school visits, application fees, separate prescreen upload fees, meeting the individual requirements of each program, hotels, food, etc. And yes, an instrumentalist is paying for private lessons on their instrument/voice - most qualified MT applicants in today’s market are doing triple that - voice, acting, dance and possibly piano/other instrument and perhaps music theory. The application/prescreen/audition process for most MT programs is such a quagmire that the “unqualified” w/o adult/professional support have little chance of making it through to the audition process. Those who “make it” have to survive the audition “cattle calls”. We have many close friends who have gone through the instrumental/VP application/audition process. It is horrendous. Multiply that X3 (or more) for MT. You have to be uber serious to take this on. Just surviving with ego in tact is a major accomplishment. Securing a spot in a good fit program is stupendous. And like their instrumental/VP brethren, the post-graduation prospects are just as grim. Maybe we’re just all insane - or infected with toxoplasmosis. Another cat video anyone?