My parents are forcing me to sign a GPA-contract

Parents Forum
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<p>For those who are in the “contract good” camp, what’s your GPA cutoff and how do you determine it?</p>

<p>A 3.3 GPA or higher? Won’t pay for college unless the student is in the top half at one of the most academically rigorous colleges in the country? </p>

<p>Higher? A 3.5 GPA? A 3.7 GPA? A 4.0 GPA? Once you are in this range, you may be setting a goal that is simply not within the reach for the first year. These are “the best students at Swarthmore” GPAs and, trust me, some of them are guaranteed to be smarter and better prepared by their high schools than your kid. After a year, you’ll probably be amazed by how smart your son or daughter is getting, too. If you don’t kill him with an unrealistic goal before then.</p>

<p>Cut off the purse with a 3.0 GPA? A solid B average? What if that’s the best that the student can do? Wouldn’t you be pretty happy to have a student perform comfortably well, surrounded by the top students working their tushies off? I’d be pretty proud of my kid!</p>

<p>When do you cut off the money? After first semester shadow grades? A lot of Swarthmore kids get a wake up call freshman year as they step up their games from high school work to a meet a high standard of study habits and work. The culture of the school encourages academic engagement, but it’s still a big step up and not everyone acclimates at the same rate.</p>

<p>To me, the expectation of a serious effort by the student is entirely fair. Otherwise, go do something else and go back to college when it means something. I just don’t know how you put a firm GPA requirement in place, at this particular college, before cracking the first book in the first class. With the hindsight of four years of a D at Swarthmore, I don’t even know where I would start to come up with a reasonable target for GPA in such a contract.</p>

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<p>Personally, I find the lack of trust that these “contracts” represent quite troubling. If, after 18 years, one can’t trust one’s own kid, when exactly will trust begin, and how does one go about building it? Isn’t that a bigger issue than GPA?</p>

<p>(I still think the original poster is a ■■■■■.)</p>

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<p>What I don’t understand is how a student who “never did anything in high school” got admitted to Swarthmore. I had heard they were a selective school.</p>

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<p>■■■■■…</p>

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<p>The worst students I remember from college were the ones where daddy was just writing the checks. The kid needs to have some “skin in the game” IMO. </p>

<p>I think it’s far better to say upfront what the expectations are in order to maintain the “scholarship of mom and dad” than to realize after 1 1/2 years that you are paying for a non-stop party and don’t like it, and decide to stop the gravy train.</p>

<p>If you know that your child will work hard and earn the best grades they can and you have no worries about being extremely frustrated should that not happen, good for you. </p>

<p>Maybe we just don’t have as much money as some of the posters here. But things are TIGHT with two kids (and one to go) in college. My kids’ JOB is to work hard and earn decent grades. If they are not doing their job, it starts to make me nuts, and not very nice, every month when I’m writing checks to pay for their fun. I’ve been there, done that. We now have clear expectations. If there is a class that is a real struggle, it’s the kid’s job to let us know that, let us know what he’s doing to get the best grade he can, and follow through with those plans. Thus, it wasn’t a problem when son earned C in differential equations when son hadn’t had a math course in 2 years. We knew he was struggling with that course, and it wasn’t a bolt from the blue.</p>

<p>We’re 3 years into this, and we certainly haven’t perfected anything. But clear expectations, and the consequences should they not be met, are, in my opinion a GOOD thing. </p>

<p>As for the specifics of the contract, it would vary from kid to kid, family to family, and school to school… possibly even semester to semester. Ultimately we love our kids and want the best for them - while not making huge sacrifices while they party on. Finding the balance? Tricky.</p>

26

<p>mini:</p>

<p>The student has posted quite a bit of information, including the fact that he was accepted early write to Swarthmore from a large, so-so public high school in Pennsylvania.</p>

<p>Asian male, very high SATs, top 3% of class of 400. Hobby is weightlifting. Being a “slacker” means making $25,000 in one year as an Ebay powerseller selling an on-line guide to a multiplayer computer game. He posted his application essay. It’s really good.</p>

<p>It is not far-fetched to see a disconnect between what his parents and Swarthmore admissions view as “doing nothing in high school”. It was probably the “wasting time on multiplayer computer games” that got him accepted to Swarthmore. They like having some students who waste time with such a single-minded focus.</p>

<p>The combination of the essay and the E-bay computer gaming store probably reminds Swarthmore of Justin Hall, who took six years to graduate because he kept taking another year off to work for another gaming company, but who is credited with publishing the world’s first blog while an undergrad at Swarthmore.</p>

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<p>“Asian male, very high SATs, top 3% of class of 400. Hobby is weightlifting. Being a “slacker” means making $25,000 in one year as an Ebay powerseller selling an on-line guide to a multiplayer computer game. He posted his application essay. It’s really good.”</p>

<p>So he could likely pay for his own college education. (If it it were my kid, I hope he’d tell me to “stuff it”, and he’d have every right to do so. Of course, his employer could send report cards home for signature when he’s 40 too, to prove that he’s earned the inheritance, and isn’t some lazy Wall Street slacker. :rolleyes:)</p>

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<p>

For some kids at some high schools the academics are easy enough that they can excel with almost no effort. If the kids are not self-motivated, they can finish HS with close to perfect grades, get very high SAT/ACT scores, and have no study skills or any understanding what high level academic work means. Sometimes those kids get into top schools, and unless they change gears very quickly, they have a very hard time… Swarthmore gives a little leeway with its pass/fail first semester, but for this type of student it may backfire, as they claim that their grades are low because they knew those “don’t count”…</p>

<p>

We “just wrote the checks”. We also gave them some spending money. And we have every reason to be very happy with the results so far. It really depends on the kid…</p>

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<p>Actually, I think it depends more on the adults, and their willingness to recognize and treat their offspring as same.</p>

<p>(For some, it takes until the kids are at least 55 and can join an “adult community” - prior to that, they are pre-adolescents. ;))</p>

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<p>I can’t wait to recognize my offspring as adults. That would mean that they are independent, providing for themselves…</p>

<p>My hopes for my kids:</p>

<p>1) That they find a career that they find rewarding and that
2) Pays well enough to provide for themselves and their family, and
3) That they give back to the community.</p>

<p>I’m one of those parents who finds it hilarious when I hear of some 18 year old railing against rules or parental expectations “because I’m an ADULT now,” while said student is living under parental roof, eating parentally provided food, getting healthcare on parental insurance, driving parentally provided (or insured) vehicle, im’ing friends on parentally supplied computer, chatting with said friends on parentally provided cell phone, etc., etc.</p>

<p>Adult means taking care of yourself. Some kids are there at 16 (sad but true), some at 18, some at 24, some, as has been pointed out, never. Mine aren’t there yet. Moving in that direction, yes. Yay.</p>

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<p>Hi guys. Some clarifications…</p>

<p>I’m not against a GPA-financial safeguard at all. This isn’t a trust situation just with my parents; I don’t really trust myself either because I’ve never had to work hard before, and I’ve been having serious concentration/learning/planning problems that I had previously attributed to just plain laziness. I was diagnosed with a sleep disorder (idiopathic hypersomnia) after haranguing my parents with the need to have the test done. I am very disinclined to taking pills, however. Today I’m going to approach them about having a psychological battery test performed as well - I suspect something’s wrong with my executive functioning, maybe Asperger’s.</p>

<p>The reason why I didn’t mention the eBay business is primarily to avoid mini’s reaction. I definitely cannot pay for my own college education and I definitely should not be written off as a Wall Street success. It was a one-time deal that involved luck more than ingenuity. eBay has since banned the sale of virtual items, so I have a “real job” now. Moreover, I definitely “wasted” as much time on non-productive gaming as I did on my business. My parents are right; though it sounds impressive as it is, I could have accomplished much much more with what I was dealt. Recently, I’ve immersed myself into more cerebral activities that they consider a waste as well, such as reading articles on the Internet for hours on end. For example, I have basically written off high school as a hindrance to my education - parents believe this doesn’t bode well for college. I don’t know. What I do know is that while Swarthmore wasn’t my top choice when college searching began, it certainly is now (well, maybe not if I get off Chicago’s waitlist). Despite my earlier plans and my parents’ encouragement, I did not apply to a single business school.</p>

<p>Back to GPA, it’s the specifics that I’m worried about.</p>

<p>Right now my parents have it like this:
Below 3.5 and they won’t pay room and board - Why? Because “my friend’s daughter had a below 3.5 GPA at UCLA and couldn’t get into any good grad schools [she ended up at the school where my dad teaches at]”
Below 3.2 and they won’t pay tuition OR rooom and board - Why? “Because I’ve never even heard of a GPA that low”</p>

<p>That’s what disturbs me, so I was hoping for some real data. Though they are Asian parents, they are also statisticians so maybe they can see through the BS once they have some numbers.</p>

<p>Thanks very much everyone, especially you interesteddad.</p>

<p>nngmm’s characterization of me is right on, by the way.
As a test run, I self-studied 3 AP classes in the span of a month (I decided to do this in February on the day of AP sign-ups). Everything went well once I buckled down, and I can only regret wasting so much time in high school on similar subjects.</p>

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<p>So let me get this straight: you have serious learning problems, and a history of sleep disorders and executive function difficulties which you have to harangue your parents about before they will pay for testing, diagnosis, and treatment. And they are worried about your GPA!!!</p>

<p>Geesh - they sound like quite a piece of work. </p>

<p>Reality check: 40% of the Swarthmore student body (likely 90% of whom were in the top 10% of their high school graduating class) end up with GPAs of 3.2 or below. AND they get a great education despite - and in some cases BECAUSE of - the low GPA (they challenged themselves with the most difficult courses.) Swarthmore has the same degree of grade inflation as virtually everywhere else among the prestige schools, and I doubt that will make a wit of difference one way or another.</p>

<p>What would be the great earthshaking tragedy if you didn’t go to graduate school, or didn’t go to graduate school immediately upon graduating? Meanwhile, they don’t like you reading articles on the Internet (precisely what you’ll do at Swarthmore, and what you’ll do even more of in graduate school).</p>

<p>There are really BIG trust issues here, and I hope you can get the professional help you (and especially your parents) need.</p>

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<p>ee33ee, I have the feeling that you are going to be fine at Swarthmore. My son spent a lot of time on similar activities in high school and on vacations as well. He had much less time to waste in college, because he was finally taking demanding courses that interested him. </p>

<p>I can understand your parents worries and I don’t actually have a real problem with the principle. They are paying after all. That said, I think I might structure it a bit differently. </p>

<p>You should get a bit of a break first semester when many kids, especially from less than stellar high schools are still figuring things out. I’d say you owe them (loans) for any course you flunk. And perhaps some portion for getting D’s. I think a B or better should be fine. Perhaps the deal with grad school is that it’s on you if you have a GPA below a certain number and don’t get a stipend. I also think your parents should reconsider what those numbers should be based on the lack of grade inflation at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>Mini has some good points too.</p>

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<p>I have to chuckle. The last thing your parents should be concerned about is whether you have good odds of getting a PhD after attending Swarthmore. Aside from two tech schools, Swarthmore is the leading per capita producer of future PhDs in the country. 21% of all Swarthmore grads got a PhD over the most recent 10 year period:</p>

<p>**Percentage of graduates receiving a doctorate degree
Academic field: ALL</p>

<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees:
ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database</p>

<p>Number of Undergraduates:
ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database**</p>

<p>Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period
Note: Includes all NSF doctoral degrees inc. PhD, Divinity, etc., but not M.D. or Law </p>

<p>


1     35.8%   California Institute of Technology<br>
2       24.7%   Harvey Mudd College 
3   ** 21.1%   Swarthmore College  **
4       19.9%   Reed College<br>
5       18.3%   Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>
6       16.8%   Carleton College<br>
7       15.8%   Bryn Mawr College<br>
8       15.7%   Oberlin College 
9       15.3%   University of Chicago<br>
10      14.5%   Yale University 
11      14.3%   Princeton University<br>
12      14.3%   Harvard University<br>
13      14.1%   Grinnell College<br>
14      13.8%   Haverford College<br>
15      13.8%   Pomona College<br>
16      13.1%   Rice University 
17      12.7%   Williams College<br>
18      12.4%   Amherst College 
19      11.4%   Stanford University 
20      11.3%   Kalamazoo College<br>
21      11.0%   Wesleyan University 
22      10.6%   St John's College (both campus) 
23      10.6%   Brown University<br>
24      10.4%   Wellesley College<br>
25      10.0%   Earlham College 
26      9.6%    Beloit College<br>
27      9.5%    Lawrence University 
28      9.3%    Macalester College<br>
29      9.0%    Cornell University, All Campuses<br>
30      9.0%    Bowdoin College 
31      8.9%    Mount Holyoke College<br>
32      8.9%    Smith College<br>
33      8.8%    Vassar College<br>
34      8.7%    Case Western Reserve University 
35      8.7%    Johns Hopkins University<br>
36      8.7%    St Olaf College 
37      8.7%    Hendrix College 
38      8.6%    Hampshire College<br>
39      8.5%    Trinity University<br>
40      8.5%    Knox College<br>
41      8.5%    Duke University 
42      8.4%    Occidental College<br>
43      8.3%    University of Rochester 
44      8.3%    College of Wooster<br>
45      8.3%    Barnard College 
46      8.2%    Bennington College<br>
47      8.1%    Columbia University in the City of New York 
48      8.0%    Whitman College 
49      7.9%    University of California-Berkeley<br>
50      7.9%    College of William and Mary 
51      7.8%    Carnegie Mellon University<br>
52      7.8%    New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology<br>
53      7.7%    Brandeis University 
54      7.6%    Dartmouth College<br>
55      7.5%    Wabash College<br>
56      7.5%    Bates College<br>
57      7.5%    Davidson College<br>
58      7.2%    Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute<br>
59      7.2%    Franklin and Marshall College<br>
60      7.1%    Fisk University 
61      7.1%    Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL)<br>
62      6.8%    University of California-San Francisco<br>
63      6.8%    Allegheny College<br>
64      6.6%    Furman University<br>
65      6.5%    University of Pennsylvania<br>
66      6.5%    Washington University<br>
67      6.5%    Bard College<br>
68      6.4%    Northwestern Univ<br>
69      6.4%    Rhodes College<br>
70      6.3%    Agnes Scott College 
71      6.3%    Spelman College 
72      6.2%    Antioch University, All Campuses<br>
73      6.2%    Kenyon College<br>
74      6.2%    University of Dallas<br>
75      6.1%    Ripon College<br>
76      6.1%    Colorado College<br>
77      6.1%    Bethel College (North Newton, KS)<br>
78      6.0%    Hamilton College<br>
79      6.0%    Goshen College<br>
80      6.0%    Middlebury College<br>
81      6.0%    Erskine College 
82      5.9%    University of the South 
83      5.8%    University of Michigan at Ann Arbor 
84      5.8%    Drew University 
85      5.8%    Wake Forest University<br>
86      5.8%    Tougaloo College<br>
87      5.8%    Goucher College 
88      5.7%    Chatham College 
89      5.7%    Cooper Union<br>
90      5.7%    Alfred University, Main Campus<br>
91      5.7%    Tufts University<br>
92      5.6%    University of California-Santa Cruz 
93      5.6%    Colgate University<br>
94      5.5%    Colby College<br>
95      5.4%    Bucknell University 
96      5.4%    Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology 
97      5.4%    Concordia Teachers College<br>
98      5.4%    University of Virginia, Main Campus 
99      5.3%    Sarah Lawrence College<br>
100     5.3%    Southwestern University

</p>

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<p>I’ve posted about both my cognitive troubles and academic under-preparation before, but they might be deleted, old threads.</p>

<p>My parents aren’t that bad really. They do have a practical mindset and I can’t really blame them. I’m leaning heavily towards law school (I said grad school just as a generalization), and I have read that actual GPA carries far more weight than where it’s earned. And interesteddad, that percentage says more about the type of student at Swat than about the quality of grad school that they are admitted into.</p>

<p>The sleep disorder is real - they kept telling me “change your lifestyle” instead of getting the test. </p>

<p>The psychological disorder is suspected - for now.</p>

<p>The “earthshaking tragedy” is that they are trying to teach me financial independence, and would rather have me bagging groceries 20 hours a week instead of me doing work that I find interesting (at a real estate office) 10 hours a week and reading “useless, encyclopedic information” with the other 10 hours. School ending is going to change the equation soon.</p>

<p>They would rather me learn something “marketable”, like programming. I’m reading Theodore Kaczyinski’s Manifesto and “The effect of mode of breathing on craniofacial growth revisited” instead.</p>

<p>But I cannot argue with their professional assertions so much - my dad’s big in academia and my mom knows the workings of her industry. It would be a shame if I didn’t get into the right law school because my GPA didn’t correspond with my LSAT.</p>

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<p>The “right” law school? You don’t sleep now, you have a potentially serious psychological disorder, and you and your parents are worried about the “right” law school?</p>

<p>I wish I could reach out and give you a big hug, and take your parents by the shoulders and give them a big shake!</p>

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<p>No no you have me all wrong (though I do appreciate the sympathy :))</p>

<p>My sleep disorder is that I want to sleep TOO much (I’m borderline narcoleptic actually - haha my teachers have forgiven me for falling asleep in class)</p>

<p>My psychological disorder, if real, is not that serious if I have been walking around undiagnosed for so long.</p>

<p>And the law school, well, I want job security and ease of financial progress as much as anyone else.</p>

<p>No therapy needed, I don’t think.</p>

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<p>“is not that serious if I have been walking around undiagnosed for so long.”</p>

<p>I work in the substance abuse/mental health field, and practitioners see clients with very, very serious disorders who have walked around undiagnosed for decades. (which isn’t to say you’ve got one).</p>

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<p>Look, I don’t think you can talk your parents out of this contract,but you may be able to negotiate lower GPAs for the payments. Frankly, I think a 3.5 GPA in the freshmen year is too high for this “parental scholarship,” especially when most schools only require a 3.25 or even a bit lower to keep the scholarship. I would come back to them with a 3.25 for the freshmen year and a 3.4 thereafter for full payment. This seems a lot more reasonable.</p>

<p>Remember, getting good grades in college is a LOT harder than getting top grades in high school. I can’t speak for Swarthmore,but a 3.5+ at many schools usually puts you in the top 20-25% of the students.</p>

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<p>Falling asleep in class is a bad idea at Swarthmore, especially if it is a seminar with less then 10 students in it. But other than that, I think you’ll be just fine. Try to bargain your GPA cut-off down to B+ (3.3), but if you are capable to buckle down and work hard, you’ll probably do better than that.</p>