My parents rules for paying for college, and majors

Parents Forum
1

<p>My parents have a set of rules for paying for my college. Many sound reasonable, but not all, I think. I thought I would run it by this board and see if other parents have similar rules. 1) they pay for only 1 degree. So, if I want to double major, they will only pay for the 1 major. If the 2nd major means I have to stay longer in school, then I am on my own to pay for that second major. 2) They will only pay the EFC. If the school does not “meet need” then I have to come up with the extra money. 3) if I pay my way 100%, through scholarships, work , or whatever else, then when I graduate, they will buy me a new car with the money they saved, which would be good for starting out in the work force and such. 4)they will not pay for courses that are not working toward my degree. So, if my degree plan shows that I can take 5 electives, they will pay for the first 5 electives, and after that, I have to pay for any additional electives. 5) I supply my own spending money regardless. </p>

<p>And one final rule, which is more of a warning, is that they will not pay my bills at all after graduation. I can live with them if I cannot find a job, and maybe even pay rent, but, they will not pay my rent or living expenses elsewhere. Therefore, I better make myself employable. </p>

<p>I find these rules frustrating because I have a lot of interests and want to major in them. I think if I want to double or triple major or more, they should support that. But, my brother got scholarships for college, and he is majoring in engineering. In his case, one of the scholarships required a degree plan and will only pay for courses that fit on the degree plan. Now they expect this of me. They say that was a great idea and that is where some of these rules come from. Also, my parents say because they have paid for some dual enrollment courses, they expect me to use them toward college. I cannot just forfeit them, something that at least one of the colleges I have been looking at suggested. That college also suggested that I forfeit my AP credits. They are not required to be transferred in. My parents say no, they will not pay for me to retake classes I already have credit for. Their excuse is that they paid for tutoring, fees, and tests for the AP courses so they will not pay for me to retake those classes in college. I have to use those credits or come up with the money on my own to pay for them.</p>

<p>Then, then they tell me, this is reasonable and they are not limiting me at all, because, they claim, I can always get a job, or good scholarships, or whatever else, to pay for these additional classes. Both my parents paid their own way through school, including scholarhips, student loans, and financial aid, and they feel they are doing way more than enough.</p>

<p>I am not trying to be ungrateful, and I am not ungrateful, but I would like to hear what other parents expect.</p>

2

<p>Well, my son used his AP credits and got a double major within the 4 year plan. He never thought that I was going to pay his expenses after graduation and got a job out of college when he graduated in 2011.</p>

<p>What exactly were you expecting from your parents as a young adult? They are paying for your college, correct?</p>

3

<p>What are your interests?</p>

<p>If we know what you want to do, we might be able to figure out whether you can make a case to your parents that it’s appropriate, given their priorities (which clearly differ from yours).</p>

<p>For example, some double majors may enhance your changes of getting a job. If the combination you’re thinking of is one of these, that would be a powerful argument in your favor. </p>

<p>Also, some colleges allow you to go over the minimum amount of credits without paying extra. You might be able to take 18 credits at a time for the same price as 15. That might help to solve some of your problems (provided that you can handle the workload).</p>

4

<p>Most colleges will have a minimum total credit limit, and within that it is very possible to double major (perhaps not triple major though). All of that should be contained within what your parents say they will pay for.</p>

<p>If there’s still an issue, ask them to consider this counter offer. You want them to pay for whatever you want to take, for 7 semesters. And you’ll cover everything after that 7th semester. This encourages you to make sure you’re choosing your courses wisely because you know it will run out. Think they’d be amenable to that?</p>

5

<p>I think they are wrong about requiring that you use AP credits to replace college classes. Many schools do not accept AP credits, particularly if they are in an area that is relates directly to your major. This is because in their experience the AP classes/exams do not cover the same material in the same way, and students who try to skip replace a college course with AP credits have had difficulty. I have not been impressed with the ability of students who take AP chem, even when they do well on the exam, to apply what they learned in high school. There may be many reasons for this but, it means that while I would have no problem with history majors using AP chem credit to replace a college course, I would not allow a chem or biochem or related major to do so. I also would strongly urge any one who thought they might be pre-med to just retake intro chemistry. At some colleges there is an alternate track in college chemistry for students who have taken AP in high school just to address this problem.</p>

<p>I also think it is unrealistic to imagine that you pay for school one credit at a time. I know that I pay tuition for the year for my child, and there is a minimal number of credits she can take and a maximum number. I don’t pay class by class. She decides how many classes to take in consultation with faculty. Often there are courses that are not required, but that it is entirely appropriate for her to take. Someone else getting the same degree might not take the course because they don’t need it.</p>

<p>If they are concerned the you may take more than 4 years to finish, then choose a school that has flexible guidelines for graduation requirements and that has a track record of getting a good % of students out in 4 years. I did my graduate work at a school where it was nearly impossible for a student to finish in many majors in less than 5 years. It was how course selection was set up. Before I retired, the University I worked at was cutting classes to the point that I would not be surprised that students are finding that they can’t finish in 4 years.</p>

6

<p>I don’t think these rules are unreasonable.</p>

<p>It’s a little harsh and firm to lay them out like this but if they plan to be firm about it then you’re better off knowing about it up front.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Dual major - In addition to not being necessary and not the norm, if one wants it they can often get a double major within 4 years depending on the particular majors, the particular college, AP credits, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Paying only EFC - maybe that’s all they can afford (the intended definition of ‘EFC’) or maybe it’s just all they want to pay. Regardless, you’re lucky they’re paying anything at all. You at least know the financial constraints for your college selection - either they meet full need or you figure out how to kick in the extra (and decide whether the particular college is really worth the extra cost).</p></li>
<li><p>Buying you a new car on grad - this is quite generous of them - and again, not the norm for someone to get a free car on grad.</p></li>
<li><p>Paying for only the minimum electives - they may not understand that your cost generally doesn’t go up if you take a heavier load - i.e. you may be able to take additional electives at no additional cost as long as you take them while also taking the required courses - i.e. it’s not quite so a-la-carte and flexible as they may be imagining. Even if only 5 electives are required you may be able to take 8, for example, with no additional cost.</p></li>
<li><p>Supporting yourself afterwards - I don’t think it’s the norm for parents to pay for their ‘already graduated, now working’ kid to live somewhere other than the family home. Parents sometimes help out by letting the kid live at home for a bit afterwards to get their finances in order, etc. but not pay for the kid to basically live wherever they want. This is part of growing up and gaining independence - learning to support oneself and live within their means.</p></li>
<li><p>Providing your own spending money - If you can do it then IMO you should. You s/b able to cover it with an on-campus (or nearby) p/t job or savings from summer work, etc. An on-campus job is a good thing in many ways - paying you money, connecting you with the campus in a different way, maybe connecting with profs, keeping you out of trouble, making you get more efficient with your time - i.e. get good about time management. My kids had p/t on-campus jobs (regular - not part of fin aid) and always provided their own ‘spending money’. It was fine.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Read some of the other stories on CC from students regarding their parents. You’re lucky compared to many of them. It’s also possible your parents might lighten up a bit later as you actually go through college but it’s good for you to know the constraints and operating rules up front.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

7

<p>Many universities, particularly privates, offer a flat rate tuition. That is, it doesn’t matter if you take 12 or 23 credits a semester, you pay the same rate. Some publics, including the University of Oklahoma, also do this, so it’s not as if you’re precluded from double majoring. That also means that they’re virtually forced to pay for courses that don’t count towards your degree.</p>

8

<p>Not sure about the AP courses and the “not paying for extra electives”. If they are willing to pay for four years and you graduate on time with no extra summer coursework required, why do they care? Same with the double major. Some colleges will not accept the AP courses or have severe limits on them/how they can be used. Are they saying that for those colleges they still won’t pay for a full four years, even if you HAVE to retake a few courses because the APs aren’t accepted?</p>

<p>Now… I understand their desire to put a cap on your attendance at four years. And if you change majors or take on too many majors, you could put that at risk. My kids are very, very, very clear that there are eight semesters paid for from the “bank of Mom” and no more.</p>

9

<p>You can word these requirements in a way that makes them sound less tyrannical. In fact, I happen to think that many of them are quite reasonable.</p>

<p>For instance, they will pay for only one degree, and will not cover the costs of extra time if you want to double major. What if you said, they will pay for 4 years of full-time study. You’re not on your own to pay for the second major, you’re on the hook for time beyond four years. Many parents have this rule as scholarships are 4 years and once the scholarships are gone, school is unaffordable. </p>

<p>They will only pay the EFC. Honestly, lucky you because a lot of us see that EFC and suffer what feels like heart failure. There’s no way we can pay it. Obviously, your folks have been planning and there’s some money for you. Many, many parents say they won’t take out loans for their children’s educations. </p>

<p>If you don’t spend their money, at graduation, you get a car. Sweet. </p>

<p>They won’t pay for courses you don’t need. Well, this is the only rule I see as problematic. It’s pretty common to change majors and then all those courses you took because you thought you needed them become electives. They really should have a little more flexibility here. </p>

<p>You’re responsible for your own spending money. Again, very, very common.</p>

<p>The way AP or DE get used is often under the control of the college, not the family. Until you’ve settled on a school, you can’t really start a discussion on this.</p>

10

<p>I understand the double-major/electives rule if the schools you’re looking at charge per credit hour. If a single major only required a semester of 14 hours, and in order to get a double major, you’d need to take 18 hours that semester, those 4 extra hours would have cost, at my old school, another thousand dollars, which they may not want to pay.</p>

11

<p>Seems that a lot of the issues will not become a reality if OP gets into a true flat rate tuition school so that he can take up to 21 hours in a single semester. </p>

<p>In addition to the observations and other suggestion, perhaps OP might want to get a job NOW. A student covering spending money in HS and in college is not rare.</p>

12

<p>I don’t think the rules are unfair. Most of it are expected without making it a rule. The things you want are doable without extra cost to your parents. A major is usually 120 credits (normally 40cr applies to the major, 40cr applies to the general requirements, 40cr applies to other electives. You take 15 cr per semester for 8 semesters to get the major. A second major does not usually need more credits. You can use the other electives to meet the second major requirements. And certain courses you can double dip. Then you have your AP and Dual courses. If your school accepts it and you can apply to your major requirement, use it. This will allow you to take advance courses or other classes you are interested. Most colleges will allow you to take up to 21cr/ semester with no additional cost. The school may try to limit you to 15 cr during your first semester because of the adjustment from HS but if you can handle the workload, then go for 18 to 21 cr. Most students going for two majors and a minor have this kind of schedule. Some students even graduate college in 3 years because they used their AP credits and max load their semesters. You just need to plan your schedule early and know what you want to major ASAP. If you don’t decide on the major until our 2nd year or change your mind later, then you will have problems graduating in 4 years. Btw, most parents expect not to pay for their children’s expense after graduation. Some parents won’t even pay for their children’s college education. So, be thankful with their offer and make the best of it.</p>

13

<p>Here’s a question - what do you think they SHOULD do for you? Do you expect them to pay for you to “explore” majors for 5 or even 6 years until you find your passion? Do you expect them to look the other way as you refuse credits for courses they’ve already paid for you to take? Do you expect them, after paying for your education, to continue to pay for an apartment for some unspecified length of time? As other posters have said, there are a few rules that need clarification, especially around paying per credit hour or per semester, and based on each schools policies for accepting the dual enrollment/AP credits. But otherwise, this is not that different from what we’ve worked out with our kids (except there’s no WAY we could pay EFC!). We can pay what it would cost to go in-state to a public school. If they want to go out-of-state or private, they need to come up with the difference, through scholarships, loans, work, whatever. And since the scholarships are for 4 years only, they’d better finish in that time!</p>

14

<p>You are lucky that your parents are being perfectly frank with you. Plenty of parents have expectations but never express them BEFORE they pay for an undergrad education. You “have a lot of interests”, they know that and they are trying to get you to focus. Good for them.</p>

15

<p>The rules do not look especially unfair, but they seem like micromanaging. Most of them can be replaced by “we will pay $whatever total toward your college; any extra costs you need to figure out with scholarships, work, and Direct/Stafford loans”. Then it is up to you to take responsibility for your college budget (including deciding whether a second or third major or extra elective courses fit in the budget).</p>

<p>Regarding the AP and college credit that you may be able to transfer in, a more reasonable policy would be:</p>

<p>a. If the transferred in credit is not for a prerequisite to a more advanced course, and there is no disadvantage to having it (at some schools, there may be credit unit caps), then keep the credit.</p>

<p>b. If the transferred in credit is a prerequisite to a more advanced course you will take, find the final exams of the course(s) that you are allowed to skip with it. Use the final exams to assess how well you know the material in the course. Then decide to skip or repeat based on that.</p>

<p>Indeed, if you want to add a second or third major or extra elective courses, you do not want to waste schedule space repeating stuff you already know well from AP or college credit you gained in high school. But you do want to assess how well you actually know the material before skipping to take an advanced course.</p>

16

<p>Ask if your parents would be willing to pay the EFC for four years of undergraduate (assuming that you go to a university that does not charge per credit, but has a flat rate for fully time students). Any classes taken in the summer or after four years, you are responsible for. Of course, if you get a scholarship or other ways of paying for your schooling, their cost would go down. If you don’t want to take the AP credit or if you want to double major or whatever, then that’s on you as long as you can do it in four years.</p>

<p>If you go to a school that charges per credit, it makes sense that they wouldn’t be excited about paying for courses that you’re taking just for fun. This might also be incentive to seek out schools that charge a flat rate for tuition.</p>

<p>If it’s their money, they are welcome to make whatever rules they want to make. I know many students whose parents didn’t pay for anything, even if they were in a position to do so. Going to college is a privilege, not a right.</p>

17

<p>Agree with the lump sum concept. We told our son we had saved enough for 4 years at the state flagship. Any more than that, he was responsible. If he wanted a more expensive school, then he would need to take our loans. If he chose a less expensive school or won scholarships, that money could be put toward a graduate degree. As it turns out, he got several merit scholarships, so now he has enough extra for a year at grad school. </p>

<p>I agree that restricting you to a single major is micromanaging. If you can do two majors in 4 years, why not? DS had enough AP credits, to get a semester’s worth of college credit toward his degree. His school has an accelerated program where he can get half of his credits toward a masters in the first 4 years, then finish the masters in one year. Perfectly do-able under the “lump sum plan”. </p>

<p>I needed an extra semester to graduate back in the days (transferred to engineering from art history). Dad took me down to the bank where I signed the papers for a loan in my name for the last semester. I thought that was perfectly fair (especially since I already had a job lined up.) I also paid for my masters.</p>

18

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<p>True, but there’s no harm in the OP presenting rational arguments against those rules. For example, if the college charges the same tuition regardless of how many credits the student is taking or whether the student has one major or two, it would seem reasonable for the OP to argue that the parents’ rules about double majors and extra electives might not apply in this situation.</p>

19

<p>

S1 is on target to do the same thing, and most of his AP credits are in his second major. I really don’t understand why a college would want a student to forfeit AP credits.</p>

20

<p>You have it tougher than those parents who will pay for anything, can pay for anything, and those with laxer or no rules, but, hey, I’ve been reading about kids here whose parents refuse to pay anything, and some with enough money that the kids can’t get aid either. So, what to say? Find what you can as close to their standards. That’s what it takes. You’ll find in life that you’ll often have to walk a certain line to get paid or whatever else you want. College itself has a list of requirements and rules.</p>