<p>So my D’s choir final was to show up early for graduation to rehearse, and then perform. She was late and she forgot to go to the stage. She got an F, and therefore a B on her report card. Prior to this she had a 4.2 GPA.</p>
<p>Now this was fair, as my D knew the rehearsal and performance were part of her final grade, and she chose to be 15 minutes late. She also “forgot” to report to the stage to perform, and I can’t help but wonder about that. So I am not questioning the grade, I am wondering if I should give feedback to the teacher about requiring seniors to perform during their own graduation as a final. The seniors had returned from their senior trip to Hawaii ( I know, huh?) the night before, they were exhausted, and had to miss dinner to get to the graduation early. </p>
<p>I can’t help wonder if part of the grade was due to some history. This teacher graduated two years ago from the same school, so the seniors call her by her first name. The seniors are also the last ones in the choir who seem to take the class seriously, and they make up seventy five percent of the choir. When they don’t perform, it is a problem. In addition, my D and she have butted heads when they “collaborated” on choreograping a musical, when my D was late for the first semester final performance because she was taking a final at a community college, and when the teachers sister had my D’s friend “bumped” so the teachers sister could get more solos ( don’t know how the resentment was communicated but I have a feeling it was). I am not usually catty, but this sister had a solo in the graduation, and I am sure it left the teacher in a bad mood.</p>
<p>Well, I think just typing this has given me my answer. Better things to do with this time. But since I’ve typed it all anyway, I’ll post anyway. </p>
<p>This is one I would just let go. No matter what is behind it, it’s not worth worrying about. Your D is obviously fine with it, and that is all that counts.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, my D probably would have done the same in your D’s shoes. D’s choir teacher was in his 30’s, but he really enjoyed being “cool” with the kids. He was especially proud that so many former students loved coming back around to see him. Last year, instead of having a second semester choir concert for the top choir … he had them do a joint concert with alumni. It was a joke … the alumni did everything, and the choir got to sing just a very little bit (minor role). The concert was on a Sunday, but the choir was expected to go to a dinner the evening before (with a short rehearsal - but they had a 3 hour rehearsal scheduled the next day before the concert, too). D chose not to attend the mandatory Saturday dinner/rehearsal. She was scheduled to work, and she had no interest in trying to get time off to go. She told me she didn’t care if she got a bad grade as a result … she simply would not be a part of his ego-fest. She ended up with an A, but she would have been fine with a B if that happened ( she was a 4.3+ student, so a B was a big deal for her). Sometimes, the kids just have to make their stand, no matter how small it may seem.</p>
<p>Yeah, let this one go – it’s obvious that everyone involved knows exactly what they are doing, and there is no way imaginable that a B on the final semester for choir can hurt your daughter. Class rank has long since been determined, the colleges have made their decision, and everyone knows that grades in classes like band or choir are very often determined over issues such as attendance that tend to slide in the final semester.</p>
<p>It sounds to me like its probably pretty rough for the choir teacher, in any case, due to her age - -imagine being a 20 year old trying to impose any sort of order on a class where 75% of the students are 17-18. Even if the expectations are a little unrealistic, I think this is one of those things that the teacher will figure out on her own over time. And I don’t think your d. “forgot” anything - she knew darn well that she would get an F and that she would still have a B for the semester.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that there are 2 different sides to this equation. On the one hand there are a bunch of seniors like your d. who really don’t feel like performing and would rather just have fun and enjoy their graduation. On the other hand there is a choir director who has taken on the responsibility of putting on a good performance on graduation day, before an audience packed with parents & grandparents – if there is any time when it is important to make a good impression, this is it. (I wonder how many other seniors “forgot” to go on stage).</p>
<p>My d is a dancer and ultimately she is one who always came through for stage performances, no matter how sick or tired she was, because she was always thinking about what her absence would mean to the others who were counting on her. When I say “always” I mean that even when she was 6 years old and had been throwing up for 2 days she insisted on going to her dance recital where she was set to do acrobatics on stage (and amazingly enough she managed to pull off a stunt that had previously eluded her!) But she was not as reliable when it came to attending class. </p>
<p>Of course my d. also has had her conflicts with teachers – things were often very testy with her dance teacher in high school – and my d. also had B’s in dance when it did and would count, because her dance teacher would not forgive the class absences fall semester when my d. was off visiting colleges. That dance “B” brought down my d’s rank by at least one spot, at a time when she thought she was vying for #2 … but the rules about grades & attendance were very clear, in writing. </p>
<p>I think the important “lesson” in all of this is that it IS OK sometimes to break or bend rules, IF you are willing to accept the consequences. Both for your daughter and mine, a “B” was a fair exchange when they wanted more freedom than the rules allowed.</p>
<p>And now that I think about it, if there were other seniors who had returned from the trip to Hawaii the night before, were exhausted, missed their dinners to show up to the rehearsal on time, and then got up on stage and sang their hearts out – I sure hope they all got the A’s that they deserved. </p>
<p>(Sometimes you gotta give credit to the other kids… )</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but if this was a class requirement, I’m not sure what “feedback” would be given. Did ALL of the seniors miss the rehearsal? Did ALL of the seniors not report to the stage for performance? </p>
<p>Also, I do have to comment on your subtitle “ok, it was choir but still”. Choir is a class. It has requirements (at our school) just like all the other classes. It is included in the student’s GPA. Kids KNOW the requirements at the onset. They can always choose not to take the class if they can’t meet the requirements. Choir is not an “easy A” and it shouldn’t be. There should be standards for this class just as there are for any other. And since it is a performance based group, being at performances and rehearsals certainly should be part of the grade. My humble opinion.</p>
<p>Yes, the other seniors deserve their A’s, but what about the underclassmen? Imagine being a junior or a freshman, forced to attend rehearsals and what is probably a long and boring graduation ceremony that’s not yours, to serenade families you don’t know, for seniors who don’t even care enough to show up and sing for their own friends and families! Of course seniors in the choir should be required to show up and sing! Why should anyone care more than the seniors themselves?</p>
<p>The only rational way to excuse seniors from rehearsals and performance for their own graduation would be to cancel the choir.</p>
<p>Wow! Thanks for all the feedback. All is appreciated. In my D’s defense, I have to add that she has dutifully attended every practice and performance for the last six years ( a tiney school she has attended for the last fourteen years), and for some reason this seemed different. While my H and I might not take it seriously, D does. She is very much into choir and singing and plans to cntinue on college. It just felt like it should have been a time to be about the graduates, and not about grades and performing. Anyway she has rarely let anybody down before, nor does she usually break rules; I’m glad it was relatively harmless.</p>
<p>S’s grad. was yesterday. The senior choir members performed the Star Spangled Banner at the beginning of the ceremony. Then later in the ceremony, they left their seats with the other grads. and sang again with the rest of the choir. When the sch. band performed, the band seniors left their seats and went to play with the band. It’s always been done that way at our school. </p>
<p>I know it counts for a grade because my neighbor was fuming about her soph. D having to go play( and Mom ferry her back and forth),ruining weekend plans for them. She had planned to just skip it until she learned it was for a grade. That prob. happens a lot which is why they tied the grade to it.</p>
<p>Son’s HS had the band and orchestra perform before the ceremony, the choir during it, with seniors in their caps and gowns. They were all done with finals before that (the underclassmen were in the midst of them) so the district knew who was eligible for graduation. I know of a good AP teacher who broke her “late paper, an F for the semester” rule (long story there) which meant a C (A work, but not timely); fortunately because it was the one course needed to graduate- plenty of credits in every other field… How about a C in a different class, after taking AP exams, with a 5 on the AP exam (no correlations between HS grades and AP scores in this system)? You will be glad to be done with the HS life and when it is ancient history a year or two later you will have a better perspective. Not a life altering moment.</p>
<p>Why is it that performing arts is allowed to grade on time slots outside of class time? Could you imagine if a history teacher required his or her students to show up at a specific time for a specific task outside of normal class time?!?! There’d be serious uproar.</p>
<p>Tuesday we have a parade celebrating our German Sister City. We have a kid who has to miss a doubleheader for baseball because he has to march in the band in the parade. If he doesn’t, it is likely he’ll FAIL band first semester.</p>
<p>My oldest sister one time was threatened by this same band director that she would fail band if she didn’t show up for a PRACTICE. Reason she wouldn’t be able to make it— a varsity softball GAME!!!</p>
<p>Shrinkwrap, I certainly don’t want to come down hard on your daughter – as I said, I simply think that the B for the semester is a very fair exchange – and one that respects the rights of the other students and the teacher. (I mean, it wouldn’t be “fair” to the participating seniors if the kids who cut could do so without consequence). If the “F” for the final meant an F for the semester, I’d think it was too harsh – but a B sounds about right to me. (And it did back in the day when my daughter was griping about her fall semester B for missing class – I have been known to say things like “the teacher is right” and “it’s your own fault” to my kids from time to time.)</p>
<p>Given that the school is so small, I don’t think you should suggest something different for graduation - it may be that without the seniors, the choir wouldn’t have the critical mass needed to perform. My d. attended a performing arts high school, and graduating seniors always performed in the ceremonies – I think that was a highlight for many of them, and tickets to the graduation ceremony are also highly coveted, because it is always a beautiful & memorable event. It might be nice if your school made the participation optional, rather than mandatory – but that might present problems of its own given the way kids tend to influence one another. </p>
<p>To tell you the truth… it sounds like the real solution to exhausted seniors might be to cancel the Hawaii trip in the future! (I know you don’t want to suggest that, but believe it or not a whole lot of kids survive at high schools where they are lucky if “senior trip” means a day at a local theme park).</p>
This is common at D’s school. The course descriptions state that specific outside school requirements are part of the curriculum in certain classes. In the case of choir, it’s impossible to seperate class instruction/rehearsal from performing. Performing is the ultimate goal of the course. It’s essentially the final exam.</p>
<p>At this school, orchestra & choir are after school activities, not courses. Participation is optional. Underclassmen, however, know that the choir director may not accept them for the following year if they don’t perform at graduation.</p>
<p>Hops_scout, I have a choir kid. Performances and contests which are off campus are par for the course and are important enough to have points taken off for tardiness. What really ticked me off this spring was that my son was 11 minutes late for a Sunday rehearsal and got a boat load of points taken off. I had no idea that this would happen. I thought it was just a casual extra thing and we asked him to drop his sister off somewhere before the rehearsal, making him 11 minutes late. The lady took so few grades that that little 11 minutes cost him 3 points on his final grade.</p>
<p>Our highest level choir sings at graduation but I imagine that the senior’s final grades are turned in before then. </p>
<p>OP, you might want to pay it forward and tell the parents of next year’s senior choir kids early on…that way, they might be able to persuade the teacher to back off her grading for graduation policy.</p>
<p>Thank you missypie. There will be four seniors next year (I’m guessing 12-15 this year). Larger issues appear to be that my D’s class seems to be the last class that took it seriously, and that more than half the choir will be graduating. The “tryout” choir ( which my D DID rehearse and perform with during graduation; they performed while everyone stood and remained with the class) is almost ALL seniors.That’s what made the seniors (and my D’s, the only one in the section who actually sings, according to her) participation such a big deal. A much more experienced director left at the beginning of last year. Having watched the changes this year is why I wondered about the feed back. It is a small, somewhat “incestuous” (but not in a dirty way) school, where many people from the choir directors family work or attend.</p>
<p>D’s school didn’t have ANY music at graduation … except for 2 not-quite-on-key underclasswomen who sang during the mass. The choir director played keyboard for Pomp & Circumstance. I can’t say that I missed having any other music during the grad ceremony. Actually, it helped keep it short(er). :)</p>
<p>Our school had the band play Pomp and Circumstance, and the Grand March from Aida. Seniors did not play those…but there were 8th graders who were asked to fill out the ensemble. The seniors chose one piece as a group from the pieces in their four years of band, and they joined the group for that piece only. The chorus sang two songs…seniors did both pieces. Seniors obviously had to be there anyway so there was no issue regarding their participation. They simply had to remember their instruments and join the ensemble. Or in the case of the choir…just join the ensemble. Rehearsals were held during the band period time during exams week.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I completely follow the OP’s post. Wasn’t her daughter a senior? Didn’t she have to be at the graduation anyway? </p>
<p>I will say…my daughter missed TWO graduation ceremonies during her high school years and both were for youth ensemble trips abroad. The band director knew MONTHS in advance that she would not be participating. The only reason her grade didn’t suffer was that she earned tons of extra points for festival participations, and honors ensembles. Otherwise her grade would have been lowered. </p>
<p>DS missed a concert during middle school for the same reason…a youth choral ensemble trip abroad. The band director lowered his grade a full letter grade. Oh well. </p>
<p>Our school music ensembles are wonderful, Kelsmom. To be honest, I think everyone enjoys hearing these talented kids. The music was a LOT better than some of the speeches.</p>
<p>"I’m not sure I completely follow the OP’s post. Wasn’t her daughter a senior? Didn’t she have to be at the graduation anyway? "</p>
<p>The graduation started at 7. Kids in the choir had to be there at 5:15. Those in the “select” choir had to to be there 5:30. ( As a reminder, they had gotten home from Hawaaii late the night before; different time zone, hairdresser appoinments, skipping dinner with relatives who had travelled thousands of miles, but whatever ). She got there 5:30 and missed the choir rehearsal, but made the select rehearsal. Graduation opens with the “select” choir ( all seniors) singing from there senior spots. She sings along. Later, ( as rehearsed), the seniors in the choir goe to the stage to join the non seniors in the choir to sing; she misses/forgets the cue, and doesn’t go. They sing; she remains seated with the rest of the seniors. Gets 40 of 200 points ( partial credit) or an F.</p>
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