<p>Please encourage your son to not second-guess his instincts. He got out of this unharmed, and with minimal loss. We don’t know what he was reacting to, tone of voice, a look in the thief’s eye, a crazed expression. I would be furious at the police, however.</p>
<p>I think it’s just a case of a kid being too nice. Part of not being particularly street smart is the tendency to want to please everybody and not be suspicious. My kids “suffer” from that also - I think MOST kids do! How sad to learn the hard way that there are wicked scammers and thieves out there.</p>
<p>Also, I learned in a self defense class that when you are either on a cell phone or listening to an iPod it’s like putting a sign on yourself that says “I’m vulnerable” or “Strike now while I’m distracted.” It has seriously curtailed my listening habits in certain places.</p>
<p>Lousy cops - they deal with too many bad guys. :(</p>
<p>I am so sorry, SueinPhilly. This kind of thing can stay with a person - making him more nervous every time he walks down a street, etc. I know, I’ve been there. I was mugged in a seedy part of Pittsburgh (where my aparment was!) when I was a student there.</p>
<p>For those folks who don’t understand why he reacted the way he did: I was a nursing student. We were all required to take personal safety courses. I KNEW exactly how I would react if this every happened to me.</p>
<p>It was sobering when it actually did happen, and I didn’t react at all the way I thought I would. No television heroics for me. In fact, I reacted very similar to Sue’s S. I did what he told me to do. My brain was scrambled. He didn’t give me a chance to stop and think it through - duh. In fact, a POLICE CAR drove past me as it was happening, and I concentrated on NOT drawing attention to myself because my fear was that the situation would escalate. Suddenly, I broke free, yelled LEAVE ME ALONE and ran the rest of the way to my apartment.</p>
<p>I fell apart at home, but still didn’t call the police. My goal was to put it behind me as fast as possible. And I felt stupid for not reacting appropriately and didn’t want anyone else to know.</p>
<p>I learned one very important thing - and that is - it is very easy to say how you will react IF something ever happens, but it may have absolutely no connection with reality when it does. Adrenaline causes 3 different types of reaction, and it is hard to know in advance what yours will be: flight, fight, or fright. I reacted the third way. So did Sue’s son. So do many people. </p>
<p>On a side note - I think it’s horrible how the police reacted. My fear is that Sue’s son will be more reluctant to call them in the future.</p>
<p>I agree you don’t know how you’ll react. I was mugged while visiting the Watts Towers in LA. There were three of us and five or six of them all teens. Plenty of onlookers who eventually called the police after the kids had skedaddled. I was shocked at myself that I could describe the weapons (kitchen knives and baseball bats) but had been far to frightened to notice anything at all about how they looked. They put together a line-up for us, but I hadn’t noticed a thing.</p>
<p>We also did some pretty irrational things. We let them have our money, but my sister-in-law insisted that they couldn’t have her camera and I wanted the movie tickets for a special showing of Napoleon (three hour extravaganza of the silent movie with a live orchestra led by Coppola’s father). They didn’t insist on taking everything - they just took the money. So yes, I believe they might easily not have taken the cell phone.</p>
<p>Frankly, I think that Sue should be so proud of her son! He did what he had to do not to be injured. I don’t think that others can second guess, and it is so hard to think in a split second and then react under such stress. Sue, if he were my son, I would be very relieved, and very proud of him.</p>
<p>I have a grandmother who was held up at gunpoint in her golden years. She was told to go to her bank and take 2k out of her savings. She did what she was told to do. She was so ashamed of it, that she never told us about it. We learned about it years later from another relative. I think that she did the right thing at the time. If she had tried something else, she might have been killed. She never went to the police, and that I think was stupid. I guess she felt embarrassed, and she knew that the robbers got away with it.</p>
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I have to agree with this.</p>
<p>It was a terrifying experience for your son, but certainly one that the cops had to scratch their heads over. Like mathmom, none of us know how we’d react in a situation, despite how well prepared we think we would be. Thank God he’s o.k. Wiser & more street smart</p>
<p>StickerShock…what do the cops think is the reason he bothered to report it? If it was a drug deal gone bad, why would a kid call the cops? That would make no sense. What happened was the kid was AFRAID when grabbed and these guys demanded money. Yes, he could have tried to just run away, yell, tell someone in the store. But he was afraid and intimidated and complied. That is plausible even if not what someone else may do in a similar situation. If the kid tells the cops that they demanded money, and they question why he didn’t just get away, he could simply say he was afraid and felt he would be safer by complying. I’m not saying he made the wisest choice but he made a plausible choice out of fear of not causing himself more harm (many have been told to just comply and give the money so you don’t get hurt). Sure, he had other options but I can see out of fear that a kid might do this. Why would the cops doubt this? Why would a kid report it if it weren’t a robbery or being swindled? Even if the kid is not street smart, it still was a crime. </p>
<p>In Burlington, Vermont, a rather safe place indeed, where UVM is located, one night, a student was walking up the main street back to the dorms as she has separated from her friends and was trying to call them but her cell would not work. She asked if she could borrow the cell of a guy who was also on the street. He lent her his cell and was talking to her as she walked up the main street at night back toward the dorms. The man raped and murdered her. You could say it wasn’t wise to talk to strangers but this was on the main drag in that city, a safer city. Yes, kids need street smarts but a crime is a crime.</p>
<p>One things kids need to be aware of is that urban areas near college campuses are considered very good pickins’ among thieves, robbers and drug dealers. </p>
<p>They assume the kids have money, they assume the kids won’t know to ignore them or to very firmly say NO to a swindle or an aggressive pan handle, and they especially prey on foreign students who are often very intimidated by the sort of person who commits these crimes or who may have a language issue.</p>
<p>Being faced with a gun is a whole different ball game of course, but the majority of these crimes hinge on plain old intimidation. (I do have some experience with this issue and it is a very serious one for sure. Kids do get killed.)</p>
<p>Sue, I’m happy that your son is okay. One thing I would do, if I were you, is to first contact the appropriate police precinct to obtain the police report number and then to contact his bank and explain what happened. The amount of the withdrawal he was forced to make will likely be refunded to his account if you provide them with the details of the police report.</p>
<p>I do agree that it wouldn’t be a surprise that the police didn’t believe his story, especially happening in the bustling Union Square area. It’s not only incredibly busy there, but there is always a large police presence in the Square so it’s an unusual place for someone to be attempting to rob someone. However, if they, indeed, acted in the way described, it was totally inappropriate no matter how skeptical they were and, again, if it were my son, I would want to speak to someone at that precinct about the treatment.</p>
<p>I agree with Susan that NYU does an excellent job of providing opportunities for new students to be educated in the ways of the city. All parents of freshmen should be strongly encouraging their kids to take advantage of these opportunities at orientation. A good self-defence course is also advisable, for both girls and boys, for they will teach not only the physical aspects of defending yourself but also the mental preparedness that is necessary. Every course I’m aware of will teach its students not to talk on a cellphone while walking, especially at night. The reason is the same as it is for not talking on a cellphone while driving, it is a distraction from what you should be doing. </p>
<p>Sometimes, no matter how well-prepared you are, bad things happen. A young actor we know was recently followed into her Manhattan building by someone who held the door for this individual and who the security guard in the lobby allowed to pass, and then attacked by this individual, who had a knife, in the hallway to her apartment. It brought to mind another incident a few years ago when a young actor was leaving a bar after a celebratory evening, with a group of friends, and they were accosted on a street in the East Village. When they refused to turn over their money, she was shot and killed and her boyfriend was beaten. The reality is that terrible things can, and do, happen. All we can do for our kids is to prepare them as well as possible and attempt to make them understand that a large part of avoiding trouble is as simple as not putting yourself in a position where it becomes easier for it to happen.</p>
<p>I agree that the story is weird. Too weird to have made up in fact. My son is so clean he squeaks. He was insisting they give him a polygraph test!</p>
<p>I just called the store where it happened, found out the police precint and the name of the manager that was there last night. I intend to call back to speak to that person later today.</p>
<p>The manager I just talked to didn’t know anything about it…</p>
<p>I know it will sound unsympathetic, but I kind of agree with SS. Sue, I don’t doubt your S’s story, but to a city cop, it would ring strangely. I can think of a dozen scenarios where a kid with drug residue on his shoe and on tape taking money out of an ATM made the report for less than stellar reasons. White, middle class kids come into cities all the time looking for drugs and sometimes get in over their heads–these scenarios are much more common for police in cities to deal with, then what happened to Sue’s kid. (Suburban kids driving into Newark for drugs is a huge problem, especially when in their haste to get in and out, they run down kids, which has happened many times.)</p>
<p>So again, though it’s obvious on hearing the story from Sue’s S’s point of view that it happend the way it did, to a police officer who’s heard it all, and been lied to a hundred times over for many different reasons, yes, I can see why they’d need to question and verify his story. I’d have been surprised if they didn’t.</p>
<p>Perhaps because Garland & I live very near NYC & Newark, we’ve heard tales like this before. Ask any city cop about some of the whoppers they’ve heard, and some of the completely irrational behaviors by both criminals & victims, and it’s a wonder they believe ANYONE!</p>
<p>Sue, I am sure your son is not covering up some drug deal gone wrong —Really! I think what he might benefit from is a citysmart/self defense course, whether through NYU or one recommended by the NYC cops. In fact, rather than call to complain about the cops, calling to enlist their advice about avoiding future incidents might be the best use of your time. As it happens, D & I were at NYU last night while you son was being conned. It was a bustling evening with perfect weather. A perfect night for the unsavory element to be out & about, preying on college kids. I was surprised at how poorly lit Washington Square Park is. If D goes to NYU some day, I think I’ll buy her a case of pepper spray & outfit her with a personal alarm system! NYU makes a point to tell everyone that they are located in the safest precinct in the entire city. I think they maintain an excellent relationship with the NYPD, as well as supplement with their own huge security force.</p>
<p>Suzie, city cops will tell you that it is not at all uncommon for those involved in committing drug crimes to turn in their cohorts when payoffs aren’t shared, or someone is cut out in some manner. Remember, these are criminals – not always the brightest bulbs.</p>
<p>Anway, Sue, your son’s safety is what’s most important. Here’s hoping it was a cheap lesson in the importance of awareness. Believe me, in strolling around the bustling neighborhood last night, I let my own guard down & was taking it all in. It’s not surprising that a teen was doing the same.</p>
<p>SS…I understand the cops have seen it all. I understand the need to verify the story. But it IS plausible that it was just as this kid said it was. It seemed like once they did investigate, they still did not believe him. In fact, it would seem to me that given the kid’s background as a new freshman, new to the city, that his story might even be more believable. Questioning him is understandable. But I’d have to wonder why they would think he would report it if he was doing something unsavory himself…maybe they do get that…but it doesn’t mean every report is false. He even had the evidence that his call to his grandma was disturbed by this incident. It seems like the cops dimissed this as a false report and even wanted to charge Sue’s son. But as we know, it was like he said and so it is hard to fathom that after some investigation, that the cops still dismissed him when in fact, he WAS a victim.</p>
<p>In any case, while there are precautions that everyone must take, and one could say he could have done this or that differently, the bottom line is that a crime was committed. It is not always the victim’s fault. AlwaysAMom posted about a case (that was in the news) of a couple who refused to hand over money on demand on the street in NYC and one was shot dead. I think Sue’s son was scared and not sure what to do and so he complied. I’m not saying he did the right thing but his response was plausible in his case. I would think that a cop knowing his age and that he was new to NYC would not completely dismiss his story, though it is understandable that the cop would have questions. The kid had no reason to call the cops unless wrongdoing had occurred. </p>
<p>While not the same situation, one of my college kids was recently the victim of fraud and I was with her every step of the way and so I also went along with it and was victimized and am out a significant sum of money. I could look back in retrospect at why we were trusting. Sue’s son could look back in retrospect that he could have yelled or ran away. But nonetheless, both are still victims of a crime.</p>
<p>What an awful story, but sadly, not surprising. NYC cops can be really abusive. There’s nothing suspicious about your son’s story to me – it sounds like he was more the victim of a “street hussle” than a real robbery and the whole idea of those is to make a person feel so confused/rattled that they aren’t sure what happened to them. If I were you, I’d be furious at the cops and could call and file a complaint. I would also call security at NYU and let them know what happened. Other students should be warned of this “scam.” I’m sure your son is not the first victim or the last. My heart goes out to you. I work in NYC, and have a kid at school in DC, so I know how it is to worry about their safety.</p>
<p>I fail to see police abuse. They didn’t believe him. Yet they spent time going to the scene, taking samples of the powder, reviewing ATM tapes, verifying the call to his grandmother. Sounds to me like they spent quite a bit of time with his case. Havng a call interrupted could have been because he was being set up, or it could have been his scheduled dealer making contact. Really, the fact that he got off the phone with his grandmother only verifies the time he met up with these guys. There is no proof of why the call was terminated. To Sue & her mom, who know their squeaky clean son & grandson, OF COURSE the reason was an innocent one on his part. But the cops can’t start from the presumption that the kid is squeaky clean. If they did, they wouldn’t be worthy of wearing the uniform. </p>
<p>Suzie, there are MANY scenarios that would fit with a kid filing a report on a drug deal gone bad. As Garland says,
Don’t you think that the NYPD has a better instinct for interviewing & investigating all sorts of scenarios, and a better “nose” for sniffing out the truth, than a bunch of suburban moms writing on CC?</p>
<p>MCHS, campus police at NYU were the ones who got NYPD involved at the start.</p>
<p>Yes, SS, I DO think the NYPD has seen it all and gets many false reports. They DO have to investigate and not just believe the story they are told. I’d like to think that once it was investigated, that they’d be on the side of truth and not be threatening this kid with a false report arrest of his own. I can see that they would not assume his report to be valid on the onset but eventually, yes, I would like to think that since he was the victim and his story is just as plausible as the story of a drug deal gone bad, that in the end the truth would prevail. Yes, they do have a better “nose” for sniffing out the truth more than “a bunch of suburban moms writing on CC” (for the record, however, I am NOT a suburban mom and dislike that broad generalization, but whatever). But ya see, they DIDN’T “sniff out the truth” in this case, did they? They wanted to arrest Sue’s son in fact. If they called the uncle for instance, he could verify that a distressed nephew called about being attacked and scammed. The fact is, there were many plausible scenarios, NOT JUST the one where Sue’s son was involved in a drug deal gone bad.</p>
<p>I’m also getting a vibe that since some think Sue’s son wasn’t “street smart,” his case has no validity. He still was a victim.</p>
<p>There are always people walking and talking on their cells in nyc- it seems like, there, in particular, they’re glued to their phones - I’m just trying to figure out how this young man got singled out in the first place. I always tell my kids to just keep walking and ignore the individuals - to constantly watch out for unsavory characters - if they even smell/think someone as being suspicious, I tell them to quickly move to the other side of the street, walk even faster, run if necessary (although that can be difficult in nyc, where people can be walking bumper to bumper). There are always going to be people in nyc that act suspicious for one reason or another - the idea is to try to avoid them - don’t make eye contact - just mind your own business and walk with a firm purpose in mind - like you have to be somewhere that second - look like you’re rushing, if necessary. Also, it helps not to be afraid - my S says that he’s not afraid of anything or anyone - I guess that could be helpful in this type of situation - he was always street smart, so that’s good for him. Not everyone can be like that. When he was traveling in Europe a few years ago on spring break, he somehow ended up on a train in Italy that was going south instead of north, and low and behold, he was in Naples at midnight, and he said that it was very sketchy and dangerous, but he was able to get himself to a place where he got a room to sleep ifor a few hours and then boarded the first train going back north inthe early a.m. He was actually trying to go to Switzerland, but took the train going in the wrong direction. He was thinking of jumping off as it was pulling away from the station, but decided against that idea - thank goodness.</p>
<p>“don’t make eye contact”</p>
<p>Actually the experts would tell you to make sure they see you getting a good hard look at them. Bad guys don’t like to be easily identified. It also tells them “I’m on to you, I’m aware of my surroundings, don’t bother to approach me.” (I’m NOT saying you should go around giving everyone the evil eye – haha – but you know what I mean.)</p>
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<p>I have to smile at this, I can’t help it! My kids grew up in rural Vermont where cells don’t even work most of the time in many locations. I recall when my D was younger, and before we even owned a cell phone in fact, I used to take her to NYC on occasion for an audition. I just cannot ever forget the feeling of getting onto the street from coming up from underground at Penn Station. We had left the mountains and very low population (more cows than people!) and then when we emerged, there were skyscrapers and the street was full of people and most were ON cell phones. Cell phones glued to their ears was quite the norm. Actually now I see they have some sort of device where they speak into a speaker on a cord and don’t have their cell phone to their ear (have NEVER seen this here in Vermont!). And I just remember that cultural shock every time and talking about these folks with the cell phones. Fast forward a few years, now my teen D is among them and almost every call she makes home is while walking on the street in NYC (I can hear it even) and she’ll end abruptly (did this just yesterday in fact) with “gotta go, getting on an elevator now” or “gotta go, getting on the subway”!</p>