<p>Pulsar
</p>
<p>[List</a> of Interns Offers Glimpse of Bloombergs Orbit](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/nyregion/20interns.html?hp]List”>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/nyregion/20interns.html?hp)</p>
<p>Democracy at work and in full swing!</p>
<p>Thanks boardin. I took the SSAT this year and got a 93 on it and plan on taking it again to improve my score. I have an overall 3.8 GPA so I figure it’s worth a shot. Also my school has sent kids in the past to MX. Well as a day student they probably won’t have to “shell out” as much for me. Does anyone know how many applicants MX usually gets for day student spots?</p>
<p>go to boardingschoolreview.com I think that they will tell you the avarage amount of FA awarded :)</p>
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</p>
<p>Thats hard to fathom. 7% FA, quite possible, the other figure I expect to be more than the FA kids, but nothing close to 46%.
I could be wrong… it would be interesting to know!</p>
<p>If it is true I guess that means, at least with Andover, that there are a Heck of a lot more FA applicants, and very few full pay, comparatively.</p>
<p>Now I’m going to become statistic obsessed!</p>
<p>was it really 46% for FPs? i remember the number 46 (or 41…) from somewhere as well, but i thought that was for legacy applicants.</p>
<p>geez this is so confusing. :S either way, competition is brutal for FA applicants…</p>
<p>These numbers are suspect. If you do a little number crunching using the % of full-pay admits (177)<em>, the total number of completed applications (2845)</em>, and then assume a 46% admit rate for full-pay applicants it would mean that around 13.5% of students apply as full-pay, 86.5% as FA. Possible, but seems unlikely.</p>
<p>*source: PA website</p>
<p>Those numbers look highly improbable to me.<br>
What is your source boardin?</p>
<p>I, too, recall the stats that boardin is referring to. They were posted somwhere in this forum months ago by another parent, but I don’t have time to do a search. Given what I know about this process and the applicant pool and economy, I don’t find these stats difficult to trust at all, though I understand that they paint an unflattering portrait of the whole prep school model.</p>
<p>you may be referring to this:</p>
<p>[Groton</a> School :: Admission :: Financial Aid Topics](<a href=“http://www.groton.org/contentPage.aspx?pageId=45465§ionId=404]Groton”>http://www.groton.org/contentPage.aspx?pageId=45465§ionId=404)</p>
<ol>
<li>Will applying for financial aid affect my child’s chances for admission?
During the regular admission season, decisions regarding admission to the School and eligibility for financial aid are made independently by the Admission and Financial Aid Committees respectively. Since admission is a separate issue, all families who are interested in financial aid are encouraged to apply. For nearly half of our candidate families, applying for financial aid is a normal part of the admission process. We have been tracking our admission activity over the years and can relate that the admit rates for financial aid applicants have been between 10% and 20% while the admit rates for those not applying for aid have been between 25% and 30% year to year.</li>
</ol>
<p>Wow, it’s twice as hard to get in as FA compared to FP. This probably explains CSI’s results and how the BS admissions process works.</p>
<p>Those numbers are wrong, and I’ll show you they are wrong using information from Andover’s website.</p>
<p>[Phillips</a> Academy - Presenting the 233rd Admitted Class](<a href=“http://www.andover.edu/Admission/WelcomeAdmittedStudents/233Class/Pages/default.aspx]Phillips”>http://www.andover.edu/Admission/WelcomeAdmittedStudents/233Class/Pages/default.aspx)</p>
<p>There were 2,844 completed applications. Of those, there were 405 students admitted, or 14.2%. Andover also states that 40% of admitted applicants were offered fa.</p>
<ol>
<li> 405(.4) = 162 fa admits or 5.6%</li>
<li> 405(.6) = 243 fp admits or 8.5%</li>
</ol>
<p>These add up to the 14.2% admitted (with 0.1 rounding error) and 405 admitted.</p>
<p>They also state that 75% of applicants are academically admissible. To me, this explains far more of the rejections than fa needs, especially at a school that is need blind. I don’t doubt that there is a higher hurdle for fa applicants, and most schools will tell you this.</p>
<p>I wonder how many of the 40% FA admits are full or close to full FA? I suspect very few. So if one needs full or close to full FA, the admit stats might be dismal. Also, most BS are not need blind.</p>
<p>Andover states that they are a need blind school. While there may be a little fudging, I don’t think they would make that claim without attempting to execute it. What remains unknown is how many applicants sought fa. Andover still attracts many domestic fp’s and remains popular with fp’s from Asia and other countries, so the low # of fp applicants tht 46% requires seems highly unlikely. I have no affiliation with Andover.</p>
<p>[Phillips</a> Academy - Need Blind Admission at Andover](<a href=“http://www.andover.edu/Admission/TuitionAndFinancialAid/Pages/default.aspx]Phillips”>http://www.andover.edu/Admission/TuitionAndFinancialAid/Pages/default.aspx)</p>
<p>If you look at the above link, you will see that 44% of students accepting admissions are on fa, 12% with full grants. It gives the average fa award.</p>
<p>A school can be need blind and still seem to favor FP candidates. Remember, money can buy the best private middle schools, tutors, lessons, instruments, cool travel opportunities, summer camps. All those experiences enhance a child’s education and thus, their attractiveness to top schools. So even if statistically, FA apps are only half as likely to be successful, it may not have anything to do with the ability to pay tuition and more to do with a more limited life experience, especially if they come from a rural area without many cultural opportunities.</p>
<p>Assuming that the FP trigger kicks in somewhere around $200k family income, then only about 3% of US households have FP income levels. Using Sue22’s numbers with 13.5% applying as FP would suggest that FP applicants apply at a rate roughly 4.5 times their representation in the overall population. The remaining 86.5% of applications made by the remaining 97% of the population (FA applicants). If the admit rate for FP applicants is as low as 25% (rather than 46%), then FP applicants are almost 25% of the applicant pool – over 8 times their representation in the overall population. </p>
<p>The roughly 50% FP distribution of the student body versus 3% at FP income levels in the general population illustrates the very skewed income distribution of prep schools.</p>
<p>I should probably have included that I did read that statistic on this site, which isn’t really a super-accurate source of information. I have absolutely no idea how these statics were gathered. Unfortunately, I can’t seem to find the post again, which doesn’t mean it was deleted, it merely means that I lack the ability to find it (which doesn’t take much considering my level of technical skill). As I initially stated though it was older statistic. </p>
<p>Regardless, I can say with authority that Andover isn’t needs-blind, they make absolutely no claim to be.</p>
<p>“Regardless, I can say with authority that Andover isn’t needs-blind, they make absolutely no claim to be.”</p>
<p>This sure looks like a needs blind claim to me [Phillips</a> Academy - Need Blind Admission at Andover](<a href=“http://www.andover.edu/Admission/TuitionAndFinancialAid/Pages/default.aspx]Phillips”>http://www.andover.edu/Admission/TuitionAndFinancialAid/Pages/default.aspx)</p>
<p>I guess that will teach me about taking anything posted on this site to seriously.</p>
<p>I wonder if there is a proverbial “elephant in the room” here that might seem too non-PC to discuss? I do believe that Andover really is “need blind” in their admissions process and I believe that Exeter is nearly so. Indeed, the FA generosity of both these schools is breathtaking, so much so that it actually brought tears to the eyes of all of us in our family.</p>
<p>What might be the “elephant in the room” in this discussion? For one thing, it’s been widely known among educators for many years now that achievement on standardized testing is very highly correlated with family income. For just one example of that, look at Table 11 on Page 8 of [this</a> report](<a href=“http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/cbs-2009-national-TOTAL-GROUP.pdf]this”>http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/cbs-2009-national-TOTAL-GROUP.pdf). On all 3 of the SAT tests, scores rise sharply and monotonically with family income, from an average of about 463 for family income in the $20K-40K bracket to about 567 for family incomes over $200K. It’s not unreasonable to expect that a comparable correlation exists for SSAT scores, and there has also been much written about school grades generally exhibiting similar correlations with family incomes.</p>
<p>Therefore, statistically, a much higher percentage of FP applicants most probably exceed academic admissions thresholds at the top boarding schools than do FA applicants. One can discuss and argue ad infinitum about the underlying reasons, etc. - but one cannot argue with the type of standardized testing achievement data in Table 8 referenced above. And, ultimately, it is exactly that type of data (and school grades) that the boarding schools must rely upon in making their admissions decisions.</p>
<p>That’s an excellent point (are you a parent though? From the way you write, I don’t believe you’re a teenager).
It seems that the richer you’re, the higher your SAT score 
(and probably SSAT score). Wealth not only affects SAT score but also extracurricular activities and many other things… So now it kind of makes sense…</p>