My two youngest went to elite private colleges. The cost was significantly less than going to our in-state universities though there were state colleges that would have been less especially if they lived at home. They had attended huge (4000+) diverse middle-class public high schools and these colleges certainly exposed them to a different demographic. The real benefit though, was in the opportunities after graduation. Those college names opened doors. And for one, it was August after graduation, she didn’t have a job, and an alumna called a professor because she needed a research assistant. The professor knew my kid was still looking. That job was exactly what my kid needed and opened doors in the years after.
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My ds experienced significantly more diversity at Stanford than he would have at our state flagship.
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What’s interesting is that same New America poll shows overall confidence in higher ed is experiencing a small uptick (counter to Gallup).
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Yes. Our state flagship is less racially and economically diverse (at least based on percent pell students) than either of the highly ranked private schools S24 is considering. And we’re also in the private schools are less expensive for us group.
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…and I should say that the state flagship very much does NOT represent the diversity of the state as a whole (i.e. it’s not that we live in a state with a homogenous population; we don’t)
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We found this to be very important when picking a school for D22 who plans to be a teacher. Of course, because of the low pay, we were also thinking about ROI. Her major is top-notch at our non-flagship (99% MTEL pass rates and highly sought after graduates) and is much more diverse than our flagship or any private in the area. And let’s not forget, when you’re not at a T20 or even T100, you also get more neurodiversity. While many dream of surrounding themselves with the highest of achievers, there is value in surrounding yourself with neurodiversity, older learners returning to school, veterans, students that are single parents and students that haven’t always been specifically focused on what elite school they will attend. This is especially true for those wanting to go into teaching or medical-related fields. Let’s face it, there’s “diversity” and then there is “diverse”. When you have always been in the majority and no longer are because there doesn’t seem to be any majority, you are truly in a diverse environment.
It would have been very easy for D22 to stay in her high-income,non-diverse, mentally safe bubble, but she wanted more and she is glad she made the choice that she did, especially as she is currently student teaching in a low-income/high-need school.
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I think it’s ironic he uses UNC as an example (of why a state flagship is a better choice) when it’s one where many OOS kids would choose it over their own state school.
A more interesting example would be: University of Oklahoma vs Columbia - would he still make the same argument that an employer would pick the kid from Oklahoma over Columbia?
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Exactly. A false choice between a private Ivy and a public Ivy.
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The terms “Public Ivy” and “Little Ivy” are silly.
Your kid didn’t get into an Ivy, get over it.(not directed at you @roycroftmom )
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Everyone’s mileage will vary.
My kids could have gone to our state flagship (U of Utah ) free, and graduated in as little as two years if they wanted by utilizing all their AP credits (they were both State and National AP Scholars).
But that wasn’t their or our goal. We wanted them to receive the best education possible, as did they and, perhaps equally important to them, they both wanted schools with NCAA fencing teams.
When they started fencing we never imagined it might be a ticket into 5% admissions rate universities but when the doors opened we encouraged them to take advantage of the opportunity. Fortunately (and to our surprise) they both received excellent need based aid.
There’s no knowing how their lives would be different if they’d gone to the state flagship but I can’t imagine it working out better than the paths they took.
It might seem silly, but they both believe that captaining their college fencing teams made a huge difference in their job interviews.
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Indeed. Our kid attended an Ivy for less net cost than our instate flagship. If the numbers are small, its only bcos the numbers accepted to the highly selective schools are small to begin with.
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If he had said that students can get a great education at a state school, not just at an Ivy or similar elite school, I might agree … but to make it an instead-of rather than an in-addition-to is just silly. And there are definitely state flagships that aren’t cheap.
Does he think all state schools are equal?
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I wonder where the writers, podcasters, and editors from the old fivethirtyeight team went to college and grad school?
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I’m side eyeing the 100% graduate debt free. Where is that stat coming from? How is it verified?
Is Harvard saying no one attending Harvard takes any kind of Stafford Loans? No private loans? Really struggling to understand the claim.
ETA: I went to Harvard’s website and their actual claim is different than what was written in this thread:
100% can graduate debt free.
Harvard is not claiming that 100% of their students actually do graduate debt free, only that it is theoretically possible. I’m pretty sure some Harvard students are taking Stafford loans (unsubsidized most likely).
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I pulled the first 4 writers i could find:
Nate Silver, UChicago
Ben Casselman, Columbia
Andrew Gelman, MIT
Renard Sexton, NYU (and is now at Emory), under grad UMD though
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Galen Druke, Johns Hopkins
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@beebee3 you are right: I did not intend to leave off the “can”!
The policy is that loans are not included in the financial aid package, as they are at some schools. Financial aid should meet need at Harvard, so loans should not be necessary since it has been determined that the family can afford to pay.
But perhaps some do take out loans but that would be for expenses above and beyond what is actually needed, at least theoretically.
The main point remains: for some, private need-blind schools with good financial aid can be more affordable than state schools (note the “can” here!). Many guidance counselors don’t seem to know this and steer kids to their local publics, which do cost for those making under $85k.
For families with annual incomes below $85,000 (increased from $75,000 beginning in the 2023-24 academic year), the expected contribution is zero. Families with annual incomes between $85,000 and $150,000 will contribute between 0 and 10 percent of their income. Those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10 percent based on their circumstances.
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I have a feeling there are students at Harvard (and other schools that don’t package student loans as part of their FA) who are taking Stafford Loans to offset part or all of the parental contribution.
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The schools referred to as “Little Ivy” or “Public Ivy” are extremely competitive.
Students have been known to turn down Ivy league acceptances for these schools.
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