MD/PhD students were in the Match, but I don’t know how they’re counted. They are “seniors” when it’s their 4 year of med school.
Am I the only who couldn’t help but giggle when @HImom mentioned not being able to “see” ophthalmology listed? :))
@HImom <<<
got his preferred specialty, dermatology, gets his 1st choice of coming to HI for a year for internal medicine and a lower choice of going to D.C. for his 3-year derm residency
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Your relative isn’t counted in that Dermo 26 number since he’s not doing PGY1 in dermo. Your relative is doing PGY1 in IM.
He’s counted in that PGY2 Dermo 423 number, which is still highly competitive and warranted worry, too.
OK. As I mentioned, I find the charts pretty overwhelming and somewhat confusing. I’m still glad he got what he wanted. S should be happy because the two of them will be in the same city and they get along, tho will probably both be busy.
@doschicos - There are also many more programs and spots for internal medicine & family medicine than other specialties. If you look at Data Table 1, you’ll see that combined, you’ll see that there are almost 990 programs to choose from, with roughly 10,600 spots to offer.
Well I am so glad it is over!!!
@jonri <<<@doschicos I don’t think that’s quite right…It’s the number filled by students at US allopathic medical schools, NOT US citizens. My understanding is that it includes the small number of non-US citizens who attend US allopathic medical schools. It does not include those who attend osteopathic medical schools in the US. There are 33 of these. http://www.aacom.org/become-a-doctor/us-coms (The vast majority are US citizens.) It also does not include US citizens who attend foreign medical schools.
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While a few DO students participate in the MD Match, many/most do not. They have their own residencies and their own Match (completed a few weeks ago.).
I’m not sure who/how those other spots are filled. Maybe they’re filled by Int’ls who were trained in their home countries? Very few int’ls are attending MD med schools in the US, and most that do are Canadians who often return home for residencies.
Yes some are likely being filled by Caribbean trained Americans.
The data report shows the other groups – they include US citizens who are graduates of foreign medical schools; foreign students who are graduates of foreign schools; and US-educated MD’s who graduated in previous years. Sometimes MD’s choose not to match in their graduation year, typically because they plan to continue their education; and the other fairly big group would be those who were unable to match the previous year. Some might be individuals who were trying to match into a competitive specialty, and the following year might broaden their net, applying to the family or internal medical specialties as backups in the event that they are denied spots in their desired specialty a second year in a row.
This is all so interesting (I have no children in med school). So, how are candidates evaluated? I assume med schools also have grades and GPAs to provide, similar to the way undergrads have GPAs when applying to med schools?
Are interviews and LOR key too? I guess I am asking if there is a way students can determine if they are aiming at a residency that they have a shot at being accepted at? I am learning from my S PhD applications that it is not nearly as easy to predict Reach/Match/Safety for PhD applications the way it is for undergrad admission. So is predicting residency acceptances doable or does it feel more random?
A small correction-- about 28% of 2017 DO grads participated in the Match this year-- a record number.
Yes, the AOA has its own match and own residency pipeline, but all residencies will be fully merged by 2020 and a number of DO grads want to avoid potential fallout from the merger process. (As part of the merger process, all AOA residencies must apply to and be approved by the ACGME. Already more than a dozen osteopathic residency programs have shut down because they cannot–or choose not to–meet the ACGME standards.)
@WayOutWestMom What will the merging DO residencies do that are the specialties that MD residencies do outside of national match (urology, ophthalmology, etc)?
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This is all so interesting (I have no children in med school). So, how are candidates evaluated? I assume med schools also have grades and GPAs to provide, similar to the way undergrads have GPAs when applying to med schools?
Are interviews and LOR key too? I guess I am asking if there is a way students can determine if they are aiming at a residency that they have a shot at being accepted at? I am learning from my S PhD applications that it is not nearly as easy to predict Reach/Match/Safety for PhD applications the way it is for undergrad admission. So is predicting residency acceptances doable or does it feel more random?
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Yes, performance at their med school matters, along with their ranking, and their LORs. Their step scores are super important, especially Step 1. Step exams can’t be repeated if you pass, so essentially “one and done”. Not passing a Step exam can be huge. A med student who was a year ahead failed a shelf exam and is now having to repeat either a year or a rotation (not sure, it’s kind of hush hush). He was in the match on Friday and he did match, but to a modest program in an easy-to-get-specialty.
I wouldn’t say that residency admission is random. Your Step scores and school performance are going to ddirect where you should apply. No one should waste their time applying to top residencies if their stats don’t measure up.
To get into a tippy-top residency, it’s expected that you have serious published research, top Step scores, amazing LORs, and be highly ranked at your med school.
We had been warned that the West and East coast top residencies would have a bias against a med student from a southern med school, but thankfully we found that not to be true.
@surfcity – in addition to the national medical (STEP) exams, students generally need to do extra rotations in their target specialty-- and at least for some there is a requirement that one of the rotations be at a location outside of their home school. They need to get multiple LOR’s from the rotations in their specialty. Then they need to apply to a whole bunch – using the online system to coordinate, and hope to get interviews. In my FDIL’s specialty, there are stats published at her school which indicate that on average, students apply to 40 spots. This can get pricey – I think the first 20 are covered by a single fee, but then there is an add on fee of about $30 a pop for each additional one.
Then they have to get contacted for an interview. There is no hope of getting matched unless the the candidate has been interviewed. An interview means that they need to travel to the location of the residency and it is often a whole-day affair, with a tour of the facility and meetings with multiple people on staff. I think the goal students in my FDIL’s specialty is to get at least a dozen or so interviews. Obviously all applicants are not selected for interviews, and in some cases there can be a waitlist for interviews or real competition to get slots. At some of the more competitive schools my FDIL would get an email saying that an interview slot was open and respond immediately, but by the time she got to whatever web site she needed to visit to confirm the interview, the slot was gone. It’s really intense, time-consuming, and extraordinarily stressful and expensive.
<<< . So is predicting residency acceptances doable or does it feel more random?>>>
I think that link shows that many students get their 1st choice, probably because many know where they will likely fit (stats-wise and personality-wise).
That said, a student MUST FIRST have been invited to interview at a residency before a student can rank it. So, if you want, say, the Mayo Clinic, then you must be invited to interview otherwise you can’t rank it.
That’s why it’s misleading when some Caribbean med students say that they got their first pick. Many/most were only interviewed by lesser programs, so their #1 wasn’t hard to get into. There are lesser programs which often interview int’l med students and US citizens who went to overseas med schools because they need to fill their spots.
Top programs may only interview 40 students to fill a handful of spots. Lesser programs may interview 100+
I think that when you’re trying for a residency that isn’t highly competitive, it’s easier to predict. There are many programs and each may have lots of spots.
When you’re trying for a competitive residency and you want a highly ranked program, it can be more difficult to predict the exact match. I thought son would match into his #2 JHU because #1 seemed unreal. I trusted that he would get into at least one of his top 5, and all of those are amazing.
BTW…one thing I learned is that those who aren’t couples matching, but have been pressured to choose a location due to spouse/partner/family pressure, will sometimes privately choose a #1, but tell others otherwise. We know someone who ranked a top program higher than a more local one that partner/family wanted, and he matched to the top program. His family doesn’t know that he did that, but he needed to put the better program as his #1 for the sake of his career.
How many residencies do the candidates rank?
D and FSIL both had strong applications, and with their advisors advice only applied to 23 (?) programs. I think they ended up going on 13 or 15 interviews, and as been already stated cost a ****load. Luckily, there was one instance where FSIL absolutely hated one West Coast program and wouldn’t have ranked it, so D cancelled her interview there.
D has a 7 year residency, so I will be moving to that part of the U.S., per her request. Good thing I like snow.
I’m sure others can relate, I feel a HUGE weight has been lifted. They are on their way, finally.
They can’t even easily map where they will be interviewing and may have to backtrack. My relative had to fly to D.C., LA then D.C. again for interviews. At some point he was in Colorado too. It’s very hectic and expensive! My other relative who was applying for a podiatric residency had to write a ton of checks as well and fly to lots of rotations and interviews. I believe their matching process is similar.
I know that pulmonology is a specialty ODs can have as well. Not sure of the others.
How do lower income med students deal with the cost of traveling for interviews? More loans? Are there funds for them? Or is this just another reason why less low income students go this route?
Sorry for all the questions. I just find the process very interesting and it’s something one doesn’t hear a lot about.
Maybe someone should come up with a TV drama based on the whole med school process. We’ve seen the residency/doctor thing done repeatedly but I can’t think of a show that has focused on this part of it. 
Not true. There’s nothing in the rules that says student can’t rank a program where they haven’t interviewed. (And there have been some known to do so–mostly IMGs who are desperate.) The odds of a student actually matching at a program they have not interviewed approaches zero, if it is not actually zero.
In years past (though not this cycle), during SOAP, students have gotten accepted into residency programs they never applied to or interview for. (This is because of how SOAP is structured. Program can see a list of unmatched applicants, plus their CV, scores, LORs, etc. Sometimes in the past a residency program would randomly accept a individual who they thought might be a decent risk rather than having their program go filled–which causes all sort of programmatic scheduling headaches and understaffing.)
RE: post#150
See the “all in” policy of the NRMP. Uro and Ophthal are actually part of the NRMP, but the PGY2 positions are filled via either AUA Match (urology) or San Francisco Match (ophthalmology). Students who participate in either of those matches must apply through the NRMP and must apply for PGY1 transitional or preliminary years thru the regular NRMP match.
http://www.nrmp.org/policies/all-in-policy/all-in-policy-main-residency-match/
All DO urology programs are already participating in the National Urology Match. This year was the first.
I have no idea what will happen with DO ophthalmology programs. I imagine they will all participate in the San Francisco Match/NRMP in the future since the AOA Match will disappear in 2020.
And if any one wants data about the Ophthalmology Match--it's here:
<a href="https://www.sfmatch.org/PDFFilesDisplay/Ophthalmology_Residency_Stats_2017.pdf">https://www.sfmatch.org/PDFFilesDisplay/Ophthalmology_Residency_Stats_2017.pdf</a>
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Ophthalmology is a PGY2 specialty--which means applicants don't start their actual residency until their second year. They do a transitional or preliminary year first. (Radiology, neurology, urology, ophthalmology, dermatology, PM&R, radiation oncology, nuclear medicine and anesthesiology are all PGY2 specialties.)