So, Thing #1 was always a STEM kid, and he his currently at college majoring in MechE with a Business minor. The icing on the cake, is he already has an engineering internship after his sophomore year. His career prospects are good, and if he keeps on this track he will make a good living.
Thing #2 thinks he wants to go into forestry, because he likes being in the woods. I have looked at the starting salaries, and he might as well tend bar - at least if he works for the state or the feds. We have not looked into income or career prospects if he worked for Wayerhauser because he has expressed no interest in the tree harvesting track.
He is only a sophomore in HS, and probably doesnât really know what he wants to be when he grows up. He went to a summer chemistry program at Michigan Tech, and really liked it; MI Tech has one of the best forestry programs in the Midwest and that is probably where he caught the bug. I took him out west to look at forestry programs at U of Idaho and Colorado State, since that is a different world from the midwest. This coming summer he will attend a forestry/conservation program at MI Tech. We are big believers in getting kids exposed to something in which they might be interested as early as possible to see if they really like it or want to go a different direction (Thing #1 went to a summer program at Rose Hulman Institure of Technology). Frankly, I am hoping that as Thing #2 learns what is really involved in forestry, he will have a change of heart.
We have been pretty up front with him about what a career in forestry entails; low income, relative isolation, rural lifestyle with little culture or amenities, etc., and our outlook has been âItâs your life, but know what youâre getting into.â
So, in a year if he still wants to pursue forestry how much do we support him? Do we try to talk him out of it? Do we try to send him to a summer program where he experiences the joys of living in the middle of nowhere spending his days walking up and down hills cataloging trees?
My S had similar interests so Iâve looked at some of the careers that forestry and adjacent majors can lead to. You might check into the career paths offered by utilities (such as utility forester) - they often pay well and those positions can involve working in forested areas but also somewhat more urban locations. Your S might also be interested in careers such as surveyor that can be more or less âwoodsyâ and offer a solid (and lucrative) future.
I have a kid going down a degree path with not the most money earning career prospects (music). We didnât want to be the parents to say no to that. But at the same time, we approached it pragmatically. Primarily considering very affordable educational paths and looking at ways to broaden soft skills (communications, organizational, business skills, networking, tech, etc). That kid is a freshman this year and actually just figured out with credits in, can add a business degree without shifting graduation date and she did this without prompting. She went out an got a job near her campus that is a step up from the average student job and requires some communication and organizational skills at a minimum.
I will also say, I have a sibling that has a quirky UG degree in a weird science thing. He worked for a few years in related areas. Got tired of low income, working odd hours, living in weird places etc. Pivoted to a job in corporate sales and is now living a suburban upper middle class life style. Smart people with decent interpersonal skills will be able to pivot if they want. Lots of people end up working jobs not directly related to the name of the degree. If nothing else, I might encourage a business minor, or at least taking a few classes in that direction. Encourage finding leadership opportunities on campus in any form - clubs, rec sports, etc.
Both my husband and I are retired foresters. We retired with six figure salaries mainly due to being willing to relocate. Although my husband worked in a couple of remote places, I, except for a year and a half, lived in three large cities during my career.
If he doesnât like the idea of tree harvesting, Iâd have him look into adjacent fields like GIS, Environmental Data Science (VT offers this), etc. He could also major in hydrology or civil engineering (good back up) and work for the USFS or other fed agencies as a hydrologist. I think there is going to be a need for more of them due to climate change.
But whatâs wrong with that? Yes, he will never be rich, but will he be able to pay the bills? If so, and heâs doing what he loves, then great. Power to him. I would choose that any day over a high paying job that I didnât enjoy.
(And, in fact, thatâs what I have chosen as a nonprofit professional - my salary is pretty crap, I will never be able to afford a Tesla or whatever the current status symbol is, but I LOVE my job and I feel good about what Iâm doing and I wouldnât trade that for twice the salary.)
I know a lot of people who have gone broke (literally- personal bankruptcy) on close to a million dollars a year.
Itâs also possible to have a fulfilling life on much, much less. Iâve got family members who prove that every day. Civil servant married to a teacher; social worker married to a librarian. The federal employees salaries are a matter of public record, and itâs easy to guesstimate the salary of a social worker at a non-profit that works with kids who have been removed from their families (hint- itâs not $500K per year).
How do they do it? They work hard. They are disciplined in their spending. And they have a rich life. They buy cars for cash and keep them 12-14 years, then do it all over again. They buy modest homes in good neighborhoods and take care of them very, very well and watch the neighborhood become upscale until someone knocks on their door and offers and outrageous amount of money for them to sell. They take fantastic vacations but itâs camping and modest hotels in great places and not cruises or Disney. They have no consumer debt- if they canât afford something, they donât buy it period. And they save like crazy. If they can swing it, one salary goes to college savings and they live on the other. If they canât, they are still disciplined in what they buy to make sure they can max out every possible tax advantaged vehicle (which varies, depending on what their employer offers). And a couple of them are aggressive at moonlighting- the teacher who does tutoring every summer, etc.
Their kids get jobs once they are old enough and nobody is delusional enough to think that mom and dad are financing a spring break trip to Aruba.
But thatâs pretty much it. One of my cousins does a house swap for their vacation- theyâve been to Rome, London, and a bunch of places in the US. They swap the house and a car. Fantastic trips with only air fare and transfers to pay for (the food is usually a wash- theyâd need to eat if they stayed home). Iâm not sure how they work the P&C insurance, but since they are cautious personalities, Iâm sure theyâve figured that out and put it in their contract.
Why am I telling you this? If you are worried that your kid is going to starve- thatâs a legitimate worry. But if you are worried that he canât figure out how to live on something less than what your other kid will be earning, I think you should stop worrying. There are a lot of people with modest salaries who have figured out how to have a rich life, and finding a job which brings you joy is usually step one.
I have a cousin who studied forestry or ecology or something that sounded equally âwander the woodsâ. She got a masters, moved to the midwest, and she and her equally crunchy spouse bought a farm. They have ducks and and other animals and seem very happy. There were a lot of ecology students in our genetics department in grad school. Us lab rats thought they were quirky - one guy spent half the year traveling by van to do outdoorsy stuff collectingâŠscat? bugs? I donât rememberâŠand then came back with samples to process. They liked it, as strange as it seemed to those of us who werenât fans of roughing it. I have some friends, retired teachers, who have traveled the world on teacher salaries. Theyâve lived in the same small house for 40 years and donât really do luxuries. They are also happy with their choices - free time in the summer to travel and a house with minimal upkeep required.
So, with that background, Iâd encourage your son to try summer programs and look at the types of jobs in the field - for companies, grad school, national and state park service, etc - and the income and lifestyle involved. And then if he wanted to do it Iâd be fine with it. One of my kids wants to be an engineer. The other wants to be a teacher. If they follow through, they will have a large pay differential, but they will both be in jobs that they are suited to. As long as they have a plan that has the potential to provide for their needs, Iâll support it.
S23 is in the same type of major. (Wildlife Bio and Conservation) and attends CSU.
The description of the summer job he just started (beyond the technical field work descriptions):
-must be able to carry a 40 lb pack up to 10 miles a day
experience driving on unpaved mountain roads
accommodations provided, but you will often be in the field with a tent.
Will be in an area with bears and mountain lions
All for $12/hr. They had 300 applicants. My son was lucky to get the job because he came in with a lot of experience that you would not expect a college freshman to have.
Both junior and senior years of high school he went on extended research trips. Not only did he do the research that was assigned, on his own, he researched the living conditions of the experts he was working with. He felt like he could be happy living in those conditions.
He has added a second major in Human Dimensions of Natural Resources and a minor in GIS. He will be marketable, but there are hundreds of people applying for each job. Luckily, heâs already being recognized within his department. He has thought beyond field work and thinks he will ultimately end up in either a higher level state job or academia. He understands the skills required to be successful in those positions are different than field work and takes the opportunity to learn about them whenever possible.
If your son does choose CSU, I will say the Warner College of Natural Resources does a good job within the required âNew to the Majorâ exploring different paths you can take for each major within natural resources. My son has also benefitted from the speakers invited by The Wildlife Society who talk about their jobs and what they do. There is a similar club for foresters.
IF it is âworth itâ is up to you. But there is no assurance that your son wonât major in something else, find out he hates it, and become a forester anyway. Or that he wonât start as a forestry major and find something else he wants to do.
I know that this past year has been so exciting for me seeing my son so engaged and happy with what he is doing. Iâve never seen him happier and heâs living his best life. I donât think that would have happened if he was an engineering major which is what he was planning on before he fell in love with wildlife conservation and research.
I was quite outdoorsy myself for a long time and contemplated a wildlife biology career (but ended up in neuro). I was around a lot of wildlife type friends / folks in school (I went to publics in western outdoorsy places).
My friends did some extreme stuff like helicoptering around glaciers and encountering polar bears during fieldwork. I almost went to antarctica for 6 weeks but decided I didnât feel comfortable being away from my very young children. Itâs a whole thing, and some people are just INTO it. Thereâs no stopping many of them from their love of all things wild.
So I know lots of folks who are gainfully employed in their fields, using their degrees. Some of them donât earn much, but they love their lifestyles. Some of them earn a lot more (and also love their lifestyles). Some of them have settled into less âwildâ lives as theyâve gotten older.
It can be done. Itâs not for everyone. But it sounds like the bug has bitten your son. Heâs at such a wonderful age to explore. Iâm nostalgic and envious! Iâm a super practical person, and I think he should go forth and learn everything he wants about the woods.
Based on dept presentations, geospatial mapping is a hot field that is not limited to forestry. Both UI and CSU offer a major or minor in it.
I must confess, we went out west expecting to love CSU (I had seen the campus before with Think #1 for Science Olympiad, and was quite impressed). Unfortunately, we were both turned off by the Warner College presentation.
I just have to mention it hereâmy older daughterâs roommate during medical school was another med student who had earned her forestry degree at University of Alaska-Anchorage and spent 2 years working as seasonal ranger/EMT for the US Forest service in Alaska, before turning in her ranger hat.
Assuming that means that he is likely to be interested in the career and lifestyle, then it would seem that the other question is the pay level. But if he is not very spendy, the pay level may be more than sufficient. However, if he is spendy, even a high income may not be sufficient (some people can seemingly spend infinite amounts of money).
So, in a year if he still wants to pursue forestry how much do we support him? Do we try to talk him out of it? Do we try to send him to a summer program where he experiences the joys of living in the middle of nowhere spending his days walking up and down hills cataloging trees?
In the Payscale salary survey, Forestry midcareer salary ranked 479th out of 800 â typical mid career salary among US grads with only a bachelors⊠similar salary to biology, psychology, English, etc. However, many did not work in jobs directly related to forestry, just as many students majoring in the other more common majors listed above did not work in jobs directly related to their major at midcareer.
If it were me, my concern would be having realistic expectations. Itâs okay if he wants to major in forestry, but he should have realistic expectations of likely employment outcomes including both salary and chance of landing job in desired career path. Itâs also important to have realistic expectations of what the job entails on a day to day basis. Attending a summer program might help, but I certainly wouldnât assume a summer program will cause him to lose interest.
That said, many students do change their mind about majors between sophomore HS student and college grad. This is particularly true for majors in which kids have little HS exposure, often never having taken a class in the prospective major.
Many of Dâs friends at the University of Utah did Environmental and Sustainability Studies (it was also her second degree alongside ballet) and have found opportunities related to that field in the mountain west. They love the outdoors and arenât focused on high paid careers in urban centers. The professor who headed up their cohort program specifically selected kids like that:
If you are looking for a broader liberal arts education for a kid who is passionate about the outdoors then it might also be worth considering what Deep Springs has to offer.
I was lost for a bit by title. Natural sciences would be more of physics, chemistry, astronomy, biology⊠Why it matters? Something like forestry can be either in Environmental/natural resources or agriculture. Each track has a bit different career aspects to explore (pretty similar), but maybe more cultural sides. Something to think about!
Both schools in their presentations emphasized that forestry majors are in demand because many state and federal employees are retiring and positions need to be back-filled. They also sold the GIS major as extremely marketable, both in forestry and other fields.
Thing #2 claims to not need much and that he would be happy living in the woods. Again, he is 15 and has never roughed it for an extended period, so who knows? It is good advice to find him a position/summer program where he is doing that kind of work for a couple months to see if that is really for him.
Beyond the money, we are concerned about the isolation and relative lack of social contact. Will he find a wife (or more accurately, will the pool of available women be large enough to find a suitable partner)? Will we ever see him (selfish, I know)? Will he get into his own little world and not see other opportunities?
Forestry is a weird field in that it is treated very differently at different schools. Some colleges have forestry in their agriculture colleges and the the focus is on harvesting timber. Others have forestry in their environmental sciences programs. At CSU, the forestry program was started in 1906 and the Warner College of Environmental Studies was created later and absorbed forestry as a major. During the presentation at CSU the emphasis was on conservation, environmental education and ecology; there was barely any mention of forestry and none of the students on their panel were forestry majors. In contrast, UI also had forestry in their environmental studies school, and they had majors in conservation and ecology, but they also had majors in timber management (ie harvesting), fire fighting/recovery, and in their engineering school, timber engineering.