Nava Academy Appointment

<p>Whoa - hold on there. This is turning into a question of semantics. While I agreed that the candidate could accept - I pointed out the benefits to him. There are some indeed. Without specific benefit to the candidate my advice would not be the same.
It is up to the candidate to choose to wait or accept. I even noted that the candidate may wait until the May 1 deadline. It was correct for folks to point out that the candidate may certainly accept an offer on the table while waiting for another, especially at this late date. Is not the Naval Academy close to the end on offers? If it were January, I would have suggested the candidate wait and see.</p>

<p>Personally, I think the candidate should question the deadline give. I see nothing wrong with questioning this direction for clarification and hopefully the candidate and parents have followed up on this. A lot of kids and their parents are, for some reason, hesitant to take their questions directly to admissions - they should though. I. am. done.</p>

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For most part, until the very end, a reasonable post, so I will break my vow to ignore you.</p>

<p>I don’t care what is promised, what is written, what is guaranteed, or what is decreed by Federal law, until a candidate gets that envelop with the cheap vinyl folder, there is still an element of doubt. For proof, just read the primary concern of the hundreds of thousands of posts on this forum. Eackkev has just been given a green light to allay that element of doubt. He is a deserving kid. If saying ‘yes’ now, makes the remainder of his wait one iota more pleasant, it was worth it. And if conditions change, he can “Deal with it”. No ‘honor’ or ‘integrity’ issues whatsoever. And, as a proponent of USNA, I give this advice freely, knowing that ‘a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush’ and when the second big fat envelop arrives, WP’s well-calculated ploy might prove effective and he will end up needing his combat boots. </p>

<p>I think we have beat this one to death. At least, I feel I have.</p>

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<p>You’ve no idea how much that means to me, great sage. I’m humbled, honored, and tearfully, cheerfully grateful for being recognized other than your humble confessor-priest. Like our President to the Saudi king…my head is bowed deeply in your direction, for I am not worthy.</p>

<p>P.S. Does this mean I’m in the running for the 2010 MomBGO Loving Cup??? :)</p>

<p>Didn’t think so.:mad:</p>

<p><a href=“There%20are”>quote=momBGO</a>No ‘honor’ or ‘integrity’ issues whatsoever.

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Now it’s your turn. Please tell us your comment is in jest? Please!:eek:</p>

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<p>Wow! Cool!! :cool: And worth every penny, too? :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Cheap entertainment and keeps us outta the topless bars, right?:cool:</p>

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<p>My best recollection is hazy at best- again, this goes back to 2005- to my best recollection, there was a letter that accompanied the USMA appointment that stated something to the effect of withdrawing other service academy applications if the one for USMA was accepted. The ONLY reason I remember this at all is because our son was sitting on the same fence, with his application to USNA still pending, and with a really great coach from USMA that was hot on HIS trail. He, too, pushed to have the acceptance card mailed in ASAP. Tense as it was, we waited it out.</p>

<p>5 years ago is a long time, and as we all learn, things change from admission cycle to admission cycle each year, so things may have changed in that regard. I am not privy to what goes out in the USMA appointments any longer- I can only vouch for what went out for the class of 2009.</p>

<p>In the end, one has to act according to one’s comfort level.
Personally, I am with WP on this one- a committment is a committment, but those are personal values in our household. I clearly put this in that category, and fully appreciate others may feel differently. The one constant is that if you have been given an appointment at ANY of the service academies, it will be honored up until the return date requested- which is MAY 1st. That is the deadline one must be ultimately concerned with.</p>

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<p>LOL- only I beg to differ. Plebes march quite well; the real difference is that they have nicer places to march “to” [this coming from a new yorker!] The only “walking” they do is INTO alumni hall on I-Day- after that, it is all chop-chop-chop. You are just upset because the most exciting places the new kay-dets march to is Lake Fredrick- at least our Plebes get to march to Nordstroms, if they are not sailing on the Chesapeake, or skippering their YPs to Baltimore! :)</p>

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Then perhaps you can answer this question. Whistle Pig could not. What should a candidate do if the acceptance comes for his first choice and the deadline has passed and he has already accepted his second choice? It has nothing to do with personal values.</p>

<p>I will answer this as honestly and as best I can. </p>

<p>In the circumstance you mention above, I would state that it is out of the candidates hands. I would accept the offer to the second choice school [in this case, USMA] in good faith, waiting as long as reasonably possible for the first choice school [USNA]to weigh in. The candidate will have done everything in their control to wait as long as possible, and when it is no longer possible, made the best decision available to him/her in good faith.</p>

<p>If the offer for the first choice [USNA] comes after that, it is no fault of the candidate’s. The candidate should be afforded an opportunity to rethink the decision. If USNA remains top on the list, then I would advise the candidate to accept USNA and make a PERSONAL PHONE CALL to USMA and explain the circumstances, thank them for the appointment, and, most regrettably, rescind the acceptance. MIND YOU- ALL OF THIS PREDIDICATED on the fact that USMA has NOT requested the candidate to pull back all applications. </p>

<p>In the case presented back in this thread, right now it is still in the candidate’s hands as there is still time to avoid this situation. There is absolutely NO RUSH to send in an acceptance to what they know is their second choice, knowing it will be rescinded should an appointment to USNA [their stated first choice] arrive. The USNA is, right now, still within its stated timeframe, of all notifications going out my APRIL 15th. THAT is still 2.5 weeks away!</p>

<p>Having said that, I would NOT let the USMA deadline pass, even if USNA is the first choice. A bird in the hand. But I would give USNA every opportunity to respond, within reason,[April 15th is within reason] fully recognizing that May 1st is still just shy of 5 weeks away.</p>

<p>If, on April 23rd, one full week before the May 1st deadline, the candidate has not heard from USNA, my advice would be to send the acceptance in to USMA, in time for the stated deadline, and send it return-receipt-requested. The candidate will be acting in good faith based on the information at hand AT THAT TIME.</p>

<p>Should a USNA offer come after that, and IF the candidate feels USNA is still his first choice, then I would advise the candidate to accept USNA and make a direct call to USMA and state the facts. In this case, the candidate is still acting in good faith, however was subject to circumstances outside THEIR control.</p>

<p>It is a fine line, granted, and some will find it a matter of semantics. But since you asked, that would be the way I would handle it.</p>

<p>So this is how we DID handle it.</p>

<p>Our son had appointments to USMA, USMMA,and acceptances to several of his civilian choices - and he was STILL waiting to hear from USNA. Understand, he had the above acceptances and appointments in hand before Christmas - in fact, USMA was a Thanksgiving gift! </p>

<p>It as now APRIL and he was STILL waiting to hear from USNA. He turned down USMMA in January, as well as most of his other schools. He delayed his decision on 2 schools- USMA and Notre Dame- waiting to hear from Navy. An offer of the foundation program for USNA finally came- which then meant weighing that option against a direct appointment to USMA and a seat at ND. Tough choice. Many of the older posters on here lived through the angst of that one with me!!!</p>

<p>The one difference is that every coach knew what his CLEAR first choice was. He was 100% forth-right with the coaches at Navy, ND, USMMA, USMA, and EVERY OTHER SCHOOL to which he applied. He had a very respectful relationship with the coach from USMA in particular- and it is no exaggeration when I say that this coach called every Sunday in December, January, Feb, March and April, with the same question… “So, have you heard anything from Navy yet?..” It was as honest as we could make it. </p>

<p>MOST coaches were first-rate and respectful of that…MOST, not ALL. One coach- a civilian school- outright told him that if he did not accept the offer right then and there, the offer for admission would stand; however the scholarship [which was substantial] would be pulled and given to someone else. It was enough to turn him off. </p>

<p>Had the offer for USNA not come through, chances are good he would have graduated with the USMA Class of 2009, or wearing the same blue and gold at ND, Class of 2009. Both stellar choices in our view. Fate had other plans. USNA was HIS clear first choice, and if it meant another year of foundation to get there, it was OK by him. To be honest, while I hoped this would be his final decision, I was not trusting enough that a 17 year old could see the bigger picture. I posted my angst on here, and several of those long-gone posters- Jamzmom, candidatemom, sistersunny- suggested I have him revisit the schools- he was THAT unsure. So I took that advice, and revisited the schools in back-to-back weekends- the rest declared itself. Personally, I would have been proud to put ANY of those stickers on the car… I bought them all- just needed the nod as to “which one.”</p>

<p>So when I say “I understand” the dilemma, I understand.
When I say “there is time,” it is because there IS time.</p>

<p>The candidate, at all times, should act IN GOOD FAITH.
For me, that means waiting a bit longer to let the chips fall.
There comes a point where a decision has to be made, and NO ONE will fault the candidate for making the call AT THAT TIME.
And if an offer for USNA comes after the fact, it is outside the control of the Candidate, who has ACTED IN GOOD FAITH, and who, if the option had been available ON TIME, would have made THAT decision. Thus, the candidate continues to act IN GOOD FAITH, even if that means rescinding the first acceptance. </p>

<p>Hope this answers the question.</p>

<p>Side A - </p>

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<p>Side B - </p>

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<p>Is a commitment a commitment, or is it not? You’ve taken both sides of the argument in this thread.</p>

<p>Standing in the middle of the road, you get run over from both directions.</p>

<p>Lou …that’s a definite maybe, and I’m sticking to that answer …unless I change it. ;)</p>

<p>btw mombeegeeoh …</p>

<p>You didn’t read my answer, apparently.</p>

<p>But you too were asked a question that you didn’t even make a pass at … wanna give 'er a go, old salt?

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<p>C’mon, give it a whack …just for the Blue and Gold, officer? :confused:</p>

<p>2010, you seem to imply that honor, personal values, and ethics no longer apply if a candidate waits to the last possible minute and then acts on whatever information is available at the time. I agree one hundred percent. However, ‘situational’ ethics, honor, and personal values might also be defined as ‘no’ ethics, honor, or personal values at all. The question still remaining is what is ‘the last possible minute’. The road to ruin is strewn with bodies when confronted with two interpretations of a directive, took the least restrictive. It can also often be referred to as ‘the easy way out’. Prudence dictates the opposite. We have here a representative of West Point dictating to the candidate to make a decision ASAP. Some will question his motives, his training, his guidance, even his integrity. However, we, as a forum, know absolutely nothing about his motives, his guidance, or his training and to question them actually impugns our integrity.</p>

<p>So, what are the possible outcomes of sooner than later? If he waits until the last possible minute, WP cannot finalize their class. Sooner, they can. Sooner and a later change, they end up in exactly the same position as they would with later. Sooner and no change, they are actually ahead. Therefore, sooner rather than later can do no harm but may actually help. And since this probably only applies to a half dozen individuals or so, it is really no big deal.</p>

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I don’t know how WP treats this phone call but it is a common topic often discussed by USNA Admissions. I will attempt to paraphrase the most memorable: “Apologize? What the heck are you apologizing for? Congratulations. You got your first choice. And you have opened up a slot here at USNA for someone else for whom USNA was their first choice. Sounds to me like a win-win all around. Good luck, son. Go Navy. Beat Army.” I have to admit that hearing the Admissions Officer state this has affected my outlook on this subject totally.</p>

<p>The only person affected by all this is the 1501 ranked WPS candidate who, at the last minute, is offered a slot. Maybe, instead of complaining about other candidates not being able to make up their mind, which, due to their accomplishments, they have achieved the right to do so, they should have studied a little harder and they would have also been offered an appointment earlier. Remember, I-Day is not until late June-early July and the goal is the best class possible at that time, not earlier as dictated by an anonymous forum. And there is now a waiting list which should make late decisions more palatable. And no one is forced to be on the waiting list.</p>

<p>Let me take you back to misty, halcyon days of early 1980 for a second…</p>

<p>I was accepted to WP in January - my third choice - and was congratulated by my Congressman on a Saturday morning.</p>

<p>Harvard came through in February - my second choice - but I could not afford it, and nobody told me about NROTC thru cross-town enrollment at MIT.</p>

<p>USCGA came through in March - I was thrilled.</p>

<p>I accepted the WP offer in March because Navy hadn’t come through yet.</p>

<p>In mid-April, I got a call from my Senator (Edmund Muskie) congratulating me on my USNA appointment. I immediately accepted and let WP know that I was going to Navy instead.</p>

<p>They gave me a bit of a hard time, but I knew that someone else who really wanted WP was now going to get a shot at going there because I was not.</p>

<p>My point? It’s the candidate’s choice, and once you make your final decision, there should be no looking back.</p>

<p>I know someone who literally got on the plane to go to USNA, and before they closed the door, she had second thoughts and got off the airplane. Now that’s a crying shame. Somebody else who really wanted to go was denied the opportunity to attend USNA because this person couldn’t commit.</p>

<p>As long as you do the right thing and let the other school know so they can offer your slot to another deserving candidate, there’s nothing wrong with that at all.</p>

<p>If you’re going to a US Service Academy, you have to want to be there because you want to be there, not because it’s free, mom and dad want you to go, or because of some Romantic notion about how it’s going to be. Until you get there, you really have no idea.</p>

<p>Will try and address Luigi’s point-</p>

<p>committment, in my book, is committment. It should not be made or taken lightly. Thus, my advice to wait it out, especially if USNA is the first choice.</p>

<p>The ONLY reason I backpeddled on this is because USNA, several weeks back, stated they were running behind with applications- having received a record 17,000+ of them. Thus, the candidate might find themselves, through no fault of their own, to have to make a choice without all the cards being on the table. Less than an ideal situation.</p>

<p>Having said that, I have since been informed that the USNA Admissions Board will NOTIFY ALL CANDIDATES OF THEIR STATUS BY APRIL 15th. This update straight off the press. </p>

<p>Thus, I will go back to my stand that a committment is a committment, ESPECIALLY if the instructions from ANY given academy directs one specifically to withdraw any other applications to other service academies- NOTING WELL that this language was in the literature sent out by USMA in 2009… I CANNOT VOUCH for what is being sent out in THIS admissions cycle. So read the fine print carefully.</p>

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<p>You are 100% correct.</p>

<p>Navy2010,</p>

<p>What is your “hot off the press” source for the April 15th date of notifying all candidates of their status?</p>

<p>And, more importantly, how will they be notified? by email? by snail mail? on the USNA site?</p>

<p>If it’s carrier pigeon, I hope ours can make the 1,000 mile trip. :)</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

<p>i just got back from a candidate visitation weekend and they told us there, in a panel presentation by the admissions office, that all candidates would be notified by April 15</p>

<p>Did they say how people would be notified? If by mail, is it mailed by April 15? or received by April 15?</p>

<p>Speculating in light of watching the logistics of USNA …</p>

<p>IF they said 15 April notice??? My guess is that’s when letters will be dropped. NOT when they anticipate candidates will receive them. It’ll be snail mail, guaranteed. It’s time to pray for big yellow envelopes w/ cool blue folders w/ a love letter from Admiral Fowler… :cool:</p>

<p>i feel like they said we would all know by april 15… so they might send them earlier? i don’t know. it was kind of brushed over in the presentation, but there was a timeline</p>

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April 15 is the published annual deadline. It is in the catalog. It is the date listed on all the Admission Power Point deadlines. It is their goal. Admissions has been swamped this year. They missed quite a bit of critical time due to weather. The have a record number of candidates. I saw somewhere that the board was going to continue to meet through April 15. Primary MOC nominations are still dribbling out. All indications are that they are slightly behind their normal April 15 goal. In other words, I wouldn’t be upset that, if by that date or a week or so afterward, I had not heard anything.</p>

<p>I thought MOC noms were due to the Academy by Jan 31??? How could they be still “dribbling out?” Or do you mean the appointments to those candidates with principal noms?</p>

<p>Over on Naval Academy forums, someone posted that a BGO reported that their computer system has “lit up” with rejections the past day or so. Also, recent visitors to CVW’s report being told that everyone will know by April 15. I think they are doing their best to get caught up.</p>

<p>The latest update I have is that all applicants will be notified of the decision of the Admissions Board by April 15th. </p>

<p>Same for NASS.</p>

<p>2010, source please?</p>

<p>rangelady, one of te bottom priorities for Admissions is to go through all the applications where candidates have been assigned candidate numbers but have not completed the process. They usually do large segments at a time. This is the only thing to which I can imagine that he is referring. Everything else is dribbling.</p>