NC State [$18k] vs. Carnegie Mellon [$93k] ECE

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Hey! So I’ve gotten a few college acceptances, and at this point I’m assessing between NC State EE/CE dual degree or CMU ECE program. Some details below:

  • NC State: ~18k yearly after scholarships. Accepted into NC State EE and Honors Program, intend to pursue CE dual degree. Would graduate within 3 years with transfer credits from in-state institutions.
  • CMU: ~93k yearly (no financial aid). Accepted into ECE program.

Parents can pay cost for both, although it is hard to justify cost for CMU. Additionally, I would help pay back a portion of the CMU cost to my parents once my career is underway (probably around a 1/3rd of the total undergrad cost). I am planning on pursuing at least a master’s after undergrad at a top college, which if I go to NC State, parents would be willing to fully cover and more. If I go to CMU, there is the potential that I don’t go to grad school just to land a job and start paying stuff back.

Ultimately, I aim to maximize my college experience – pursuing undergraduate research and filling my summers with internships, hopefully to end up at a top graduate school or high paying jobs. Throughout high school, I engaged in research and some internships alongside coursework, so I feel confident in my ability to go guns blazing for either school. I just don’t know how limiting staying at NC State would be for my prospects. I think I am academically prepared enough to withstand the CMU grind, although I know that I would have to most likely retake classes, and may be a “mid-tier” student.

I guess I’m sort of debating if the CMU connections, name-brand, and rigor are justified paying for, especially for an undergraduate degree. I’m also debating the merits of being a top student at NC State and having more flexibility within my degree to accelerate it, take advanced classes, and if that is able to make me more competitive against other top students when it comes to opportunities like internships throughout college, or grad school prospects after graduating. I guess there is also some level of regret – putting in work to get acceptances like CMU, turning it down at the end, and maybe not being able to be in that echelon again.

Insights into this would be greatly appreciated! I would definitely love to hear from people at NC State and CMU pursuing a similar pathway, and how your experiences were.

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Wow - this is a tough one.

Normally, I’d be on the NC State train - but CMU is one of those few colleges that might be worth the insane cost.

That said, that you’d have to pay back 1/3 to your parents - that would put it out of play to for me - that’s too much. That’s $125K+.

But you want research - can happen at either school - ask. That you’re in Honors should get you some connections.

Internships - not easy to get - schools may have listings but you’ll be the one to find them - and we don’t know how the market will be. In this case, NC State could hinder because your time there will be shorter and some kids don’t find an internship until after Junior year.

That you want to do a Masters tells me your best bang for the buck would be 3 years at NC State and then a Masters at CMU…easier said than done, of course.

You can look at career outcomes at each.

NC State graduated 145 CE students in Dec 23 and May 24. 137 responded to the survey . They reported salaries of $83,179 average and $81,250 median. Before the next person tries to say the data is useless, please note the counts - nearly every student responded to the survey.

For electrical, 102 of 117 grads reported an average of $81,925 and median $81,250. Also a very high response rate.

Grad schools attended include - CMU plus other top schools like Cal Tech, Georgia Tech, MIT, etc.

CMU shows 42 of 77 people working reporting salaries of $129K median and $122,891 on average for ECE. That 35 didn’t report might mean a downward bias - but as one would expect, it’s much higher than NC State.

That said, more people attend grad school at CMU than work.

Given NC State is placing at all the top schools (far more than I listed) and that you’d owe your parents well over $100K yourself, I could never recommend CMU.

But it certainly is one of those special schools so I can see the pull of it. That pull would likely put you in a hole though for many years - unless your parents forgave the loan.

Best of luck whatever you decide and congrats on such wonderful opportunities.

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Welcome to CC , OP! This has been explained numerous times, but please be careful when considering outcome data as it is often flawed and limited in its utility. Here is a link to a thread that explains it as well as, at the end, links to two reliable resources to look at “return on investment“. Problems and limitations with College career outcome reports: reading between the lines

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NC State. Sure you can get a MS at CMU or Stanford later. Like you correctly deduced a lot of EE jobs need a MS or PHD. Where you went for undergrad degree may not get noticed once you get a graduate degree. An example would be Jensen Huang who went to Oregon St and then Stanford.

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NC State. Very good school and much cheaper. You can get a job in EE or ECE from either location and save yourself $300K. Plus, as some one mentioned, you can go to grad school at CMU later.

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It’s definitely hard to justify 100k a year for a bachelors degree. I think the decision is a no-brainer. Go to NCSU. You’re already in a huge tech hub. Plus graduation from an honors program is a tangible accomplishment you can put on a resume.

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Welcome, and congratulations. You obviously killed it in HS to get admitted at the Nerd Farm for engineering.

For clarification, what is “ECE”? Is that electrical and computer engineering? Do the EE/CE and ECE programs feed into similar career tracks?

Would CMU accept credits and allow you to graduate in three years?

I know you are comparing the costs of the two schools, but how do they compare along other variables like campus, culture, class size, undergrad research opportunities, etc.? Which is a better fit? Have you visited both campuses?

To what other schools were you accepted? Is another school even still in the running?

I used to work with an MEP EE in Chicago whose son was accepted by multiple top engineering schools including UIUC and MIT (or was it CalTech?). The son wanted to go to MIT for undergrad, but the father told him he would not pay for it when the son could go to UIUC (his in-state flagship) for half the cost. If the son wanted to go to grad school
after completing his BS he could go to the big name school then. This is a bit different situation than you are in because UIUC was closer to MIT in the rankings, reputation, etc., but it still is a good strategy.

It is my understanding that when recruiters look at students in an honors program at a strong, but not top 10, university it carries a lot of weight. In crass terms, NC State is #30 in engineering, but recruiters may think of students in the honors program as coming from a top 15 school. In addition to the education a school provides, recruiters are relying upon them to vet prospective employees; honors programs provide a more rigorous vetting process that is marketable. (CC members in tech please chime in if I am off the mark.)

Assuming there is not a downside to NC State you have not discussed, it appears to be the rational choice, especially if you can graduate a year faster than from CMU.

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Not sure I’d agree with this - or that I’d agree that Honors is taken into account at all - especially when applying for jobs on line, etc. Today, recruiters are a lot more online vs. in person at a place like State.

I do believe, in this case, NC State is the right choice, however.

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I agree with others, it would make a lot of sense to choose NC State now, and then if things go well you can always consider grad school at a place like CMU.

I also want to emphasize that NC State engineering is not exactly slumming it! North Carolina is one of those states where the “flagship” engineering college is not the same as the “flagship” non-engineering college (others include Virginia (Virginia Tech not UVA), South Carolina (Clemson), Georgia (Georgia Tech), and Indiana (Purdue)). This often has happened because the other flagship was founded before the era when engineering was taught in US colleges.

Anyway, as you would expect, the flagship engineering college in a state as important as North Carolina is very good! Rankings are always subject to different priorities, but I think most people would agree NC State is like a top 30ish engineering college in the US, give or take, including both privates and publics.

Of course CMU would be ranked higher by most, particularly for Computer Engineering but also to some extent for EE. But again, since college is not necessarily the end of your educational journey anyway, I would be cautious about thinking you have to blow a ton of money at that stage.

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CMU is you can afford, international students come with two bags and tons of loans and they do great, I feel like it is an investment, it is just my 2 cents

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Please clarify the finances with your parents. The financial difference is quite large, and it sounds like some loans from them are in the mix.

Clarify the finances first and foremost with your family. And please don’t jeopardize their financial future. Only your parents can answer this question. Not any of us

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Actually, you say two things that sort of answer your question.

If you plan to go to grad school immediately after, the CMU connections won’t be in play.

And NC State places at all the top grad schools - MIT, Ga Tech, CMU, Cal Tech, and more.

So I think you actually answered the question yourself without realizing.

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This suggests that CMU is not really affordable, or is at the very edge.

NCSU’s main drawback is competitive secondary admission to major (in what is called the CODA process). Both electrical engineering and computer engineering were somewhat competitive, in taking most, but not all, applicants who chose them as their first choice majors: CODA Statistics | The College of Engineering at NC State University . More NCSU engineering CODA information can be found at Join a Department - Change of Degree Application (CODA) | The College of Engineering at NC State University (note that AP scores used for math, physics, and chemistry are converted to grades for CODA purposes, and scores lower than 5 become grades lower than A).

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Granted I’m not the most familiar with their CODA policies, but I have a good amount of connections at NC State who can probably clarify. However, I also don’t know how much their CODA stuff applies on my situation – specifically within the major, I have dual enrollment credits (not APs) that put me past every math and science requirement that 1st/2nd years take, leaving me with just the major specific courses (hence early graduation).

I also do need to clarify financial situations with family, however the payback aspect would be less focused on covering cost, and more encouraging a high ROI route at CMU by ensuring I have financial stake in this decision. As mentioned in my above post, most likely, funds unused by going to NC State would make their way to me after undergrad, most likely to finance grad school or have a comfortable start to my post-school life. Net parent investment most likely equals out in both scenarios, just in different manners – when/where the money is used, and if I would need to pay back.

In response to an earlier question, the only other school that Im heavily considering is Georgia Tech EE, full OOS state cost which would be around 55k yearly. As my credits would only apply in-state, there is some frustration on my end in regards to retaking classes. It appears I would be “behind” relative to in-state students and other students with lots of APs carrying over (especially with such a credit heavy major) although I could be overestimating the importance of this.

I’ve toured all three campuses and spoken to connections at all three schools. At my standpoint, I think its hard for me to contextualize which school would get me to my desired end goal the most (which I think is grad school then industry, although who knows if that will change).

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If it helps, I sometimes like to point out that colleges do not provide outcomes, they provide opportunities. So, your outcomes then depend on which opportunities you choose to pursue, and how it goes for you as an individual.

With that understanding in mind, it turns out there are very few outcomes, almost none in fact, which are available only for the graduates of some very good colleges and not others. And in fact, at the level you are talking at least, the opportunities are not so different either. The biggest difference tends to be the student mix they are serving.

So if you as an individual can identify and make good use of the opportunities that make sense for you, you will likely end up with good outcomes. And the degree to which that depends on which of these types of colleges you choose is very likely much, much less than what some people seem to think. It more is a function of your choices IN college, and generally how well you do IN college.

Now if you are just more excited about the total experience at one college versus another, and are able to comfortably afford them both, then great, choose the one that excites you more.

But I get super nervous when people start trying to justify spending a lot more for college based on things like career outcomes. Because I am very skeptical the exact college you choose (within this sort of range) has much to do with that.

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If this, then all will get you there and to the same level of school for grad school.

I mean all will get you to industry - but at what level?

Even going to Ga Tech isn’t an assured thing - different engineering disclpline but one regular poster’s student has been unable to find paid work since graduation in December.

The one sure thing in life and jobs - is that there’s no sure thing.

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Programmer here. Sounds like there may be heavy debt. I would suggest not spending that kind of money on a bachelors degree. The ROI stuff you hear from prestigious schools are generally misleading. Here’s the reality. You’re in an industry where prestige does not matter. I went to a regional state university. In my last job search, I’ve interviewed for high paid jobs with Amazon, Google, Georgia Tech, USAA, and many more fortune 500 companies. Overrated in my opinion. All of your credentials are built on the job. NCSU is a heavily recruited school right in the middle of a major tech hub. That’s your ROI right there.

The “starting salaries” in the prestigious schools are skewed, because the schools are on the east/west coast where the cost of living is the highest. And the “bump” in salary doesn’t last. It takes very little time for everyone else to catch up to you. Usually after 3 years experience, employers don’t even ask where you went to school. They only care about what you know and what you can do.

Ignore the hype. Focus on getting your education with as little debt as possible. Your future self will thank you later.

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I think that’s a fairly big “kicking the can down the road” assumption. Unrelated to OPs question, I see a lot of the “you can always go to masters at that Top school later” but that is not an option that is guaranteed or even available down the line. Decisions should be made based on what’s on hand right now.

OP - there are two distinct schools of thought. Some, like myself, will recommend splurging to go to a top school like CMU and others would recommend not paying that premium. There is no absolute right answer but I think you will benefit from drilling down even further on future goals.

For example, define what is a high paying job, who are the target companies, where do they typically hire from, how many alumns do you see from each school, is grad school even needed for those careers? etc.

You should really grill your parents on whether they can truly afford CMU? Will this mean they will have to take loans? Withdraw 401k etc..

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Have you given thought to how the campuses feel different? Or if you “clicked” with the student vibe at each?

Clearly either college will give you good opportunities and good connections. You can’t go wrong with either one. If you “feel” more comfortable at one, though, that’s definitely something to think about. Plus…Pittsburgh has different weather than Raleigh. There are environmental differences that may or may not matter to you.

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This is OP’s plan, not my suggestion.