I shudder to visualize what you think they are doing with their digits…
GMT, for approximately the 20th time this thread, I will point out that the idea that laws protecting trans people will be abused by non-trans people, or that men will decide on a whim on Tuesday that they’re women and then go back to being men on Wednesday, is rather conclusively belied by the fact – which is fact, not baseless speculation – that there’s no evidence whatsoever of any of this ever happening in any of the 16 states and more than 200 municipalities with laws protecting trans people, some of which have had those laws for many years. Baseless hysteria and fantasy should not outweigh the essential needs (which harm nobody) of a marginalized, vulnerable population.
Separately, I hope that some of you can understand that even though I’ve never, ever had an issue or been questioned by anyone in bathrooms – either before or after my official full-time transition and name change, etc. 11 years ago, and either before or after my final surgery 7 years ago – I still find what’s been going on (both specifically with regard to legislative efforts against trans people, and generally in terms of the relentless anti-trans rhetoric from politicians and others around the country) incredibly demoralizing and exhausting. And so does every other trans person I know, no matter how strong and “together” they may appear on the surface. I’m not being melodramatic in saying that It takes something out of me every time I read about it, let alone when I try to respond to the arguments being made, here or elsewhere. Which is why I haven’t been as active in this thread as I probably should be. I wish I could just hide under my bed and sever all connections to the world until all of this passes. Unfortunately, that isn’t very practical.
Not exactly, until we start labeling babies differently a gender is established at birth based on biological factors even with babies born that are ambiguous and generally a decision is made based on biological factors very shortly after birth. A trans woman is a person who believes they are a woman despite the biological realities of their birth. However we decide to integrate this into our societies a trans woman is not a woman without totally redefining legally what a woman is or a man is and our legal concepts of personal privacy. In my mind this is an equally compelling distinction as the question when does life begin.
I have never changed clothes in an airport bathroom (and I’ve never seen someone else changing) but if I did, I would take the larger handicapped stall or go into the separate “family bathroom”. I’m sure any trans woman would do the same.
@GMTplus7 - if you want to change in the open space, go ahead. Just don’t block the sinks. I think you must be traveling in better airports than me, I can’t imagine there being enough space to change in the open.
I was being serious and substitute Iran, a government we’ve recently mainstreamed, for the ringers. While bathroom rights are being portrayed as the new civil rights struggle in America, that theocracy is regularly executing gays for just that… being gay.
Compassionate would be finding someone that could help with your event without having to renege on their own beliefs. That there’s a law you pushed to pass doesn’t change that.
No, momofthreeboys, sex (not gender – they’re different) is assigned at birth based on perceived anatomy. Nobody tests chromosomes or anything else “biological” at birth. And you’re ignoring all the scientific studies that show that in fact there is a biological basis for transness. And whether you like it or not, I am, and have been, for a long time, legally female. (Never mind hormonally and anatomically essentially identical to a woman who’s had a hysterectomy – although I don’t happen to believe that surgery is what made me a woman. I already was one.) So any redefinition happened a long time ago. So, too bad if you don’t like it. I’m tired of being polite to bigots. This is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about in my previous comment.
“But as @Snowybuny has pointed out, it can take “years of self discovery” for someone to decide on this”
@GMTplus7, stop it. You’re not stupid. It’s been explained to you what snowybuny meant, and you just keep repeating the same weird, incorrect and somewhat, uh, ignorant statement. I don’t believe that you don’t understand what’s being said to you. You’re being contrary, but you’re better than this.
@catahoula We don’t get a free pass on improving LGBTQ+ rights in America simply because other countries have it worse.
There are many areas in this country that are isolated and rural. Gay people in those areas may only have access to one bakery. Not to mention they should be able to access any bakery they want just like straight people can. Sorry if I’m not overwhelmed with compassion for people who don’t think my friends and I should have the same rights as everyone else.
On a bathroom choice thread, deflection would be too much trouble. There has to be a villain, though, and Christians are the nearest to hand, as I mentioned earlier.
I want to know where all this genitalia seeing is going on. Perhaps it’s because I live in the more conservative midwest (or maybe because it’s often too cold to even consider taking off layers), but I just don’t encounter people’s sex organs nearly as much as some on this thread apparently do.
I’ve NEVER seen nudity of any kind in a ladies’ room. So I don’t need to worry about having the vapors or dropping dead of a heart attack at the thought of,or less likely, the actual sight of, any “male danglies.” And why do people keep talking about the prospect of seeing trans women’s male genitals in restrooms?! First of all, we don’t have urinals in women’s rooms, and secondly, trans women would be last ones to want to expose themselves. Talk about straw men arguments.
Some people must like to sneak peeks…
I’ve never seen anyone else’s genitals in a women’s bathroom either, not once ever. For all I know, everyone I’ve ever shared the bathroom over the last 11 years has been a trans woman. Nor have I ever in my life seen anyone changing clothes out in the open, in either kind of restroom. I would think anyone who did that was being kind of odd. Do it in a stall! Anything else is violating my privacy! (And, in fact, I’ve seen plenty of signs in public restrooms in transportation facilities, etc., making clear that the bathroom is not for changing clothing, or taking a sink bath. Presumably directed at the homeless, but it applies to everyone.)
@DonnaL I completely agree! I’d be very surprised if I walked into the restroom and saw someone changing. That just seems rude to other people, especially considering the size of most restrooms. What’s wrong with using a stall?
If be pretty weirded out by someone changing clothes in the open in an airport restroom. There are stalls, I’d hope people would use them.
I do remember one person changing in the bathroom at the airport. A young child was being changed by her mom (or an adult woman of some kind). If I had to guess, she had an accident since it was her pants (and perhaps underwear? I wasn’t really looking…) being switched out.
I can absolutely see why there just wouldn’t be enough room in a stall and no one really gave it a second thought as far as I know. I remember it because the child was having a complete crying tantrum and I remember feeling bad for the mom.
But even at beach restrooms and other places where I could imagine people changing, I’ve still just never seen it.
Oh I so totally agree. I had this here restaurant in the south, I totally sincerely believed that blacks and whites should be separate (totally in my religious book ya know). Anyways how I had separate rooms and staffs and all - jus like the book says. I totally loved all the customers, I just wanted them to be in separate rooms. No biggy. All real nice and all. But you know how that goes. Some people ya just can’t please. And they had no compassion for me whatsoevers, like right?
I saw a naked little boy in the last airport bathroom I was in. Horrors!!! Actually it was “horrors” because his Mom was trying to get him to wear pull-ups for the plane and he wanted his big boy underwear and she quickly, quickly, resorted to bribery (I’ll give you candy) and he was shrieking and I just felt awful for anyone who has to travel with young children alone (she had a baby in the stroller too).
My advice to young people contemplating parenthood - move to someplace really great and just STAY there for 6 - 8 years. Make everyone come to you. I know, unrealistic, but so much easier on the kids and their parents.
Passage of the civil rights laws in the 60s invited jerks to be jerks too. Not a good enough reason to deny a group their rights.
@romanigypsyeyes I live in wild and crazy California, and I have never in my life seen anyone’s privates in a restroom.
I traveled a lot with my kids, coast-to-coast and internationally. They were highly bribe-able, so it always worked out.