<p>hmom5: D is Asian but this school has a very low percentage of Asian students, less than 2%. They are the lowest represented minority group on campus with the exception of American Indian. Would your statement that she has slim chances still apply in these circumstances?</p>
<p>Bobby: I think she definitely has a chance. But she should be encouraged to form attachments to other schools too because college admissions are so unpredictable. A safety that is close to what the dream school provides makes life easier all around.</p>
<p>My kids had Bard to stand in for Williams and Barnard. Since Bard is EA, that early acceptance really had breathing easier all around.</p>
<p>It does help if your kid knows some poker. Then you can say "you are dealt a hand of cards. You play your cards to the very best of your ability. Sometimes what you have and have played shrewdly wins. Other times what seems like a strong hand still isn’t the winning hand. It’s still worthwhile to give it your best shot. I’m rooting for you, kid. If this hand doesn’t pan out, be confident that this is still your universe and there’s another game down the road. One way or another, I know you’ll find a path that works for you. "</p>
<p>I agree with calmom on stats.D was on the low side in math though not in the other areas. However she put on her application she wanted to major in a foreign language and as a junior she is in fact doing so.The language dept. is small and the school had a push for applicants distinguished in the arts and she was. Her high school grades demonstrated she could do the work at a rigorous school.Don’t get too caught up in numbers(at least that was true in d’s case- that an eh math score wasn’t even a factor).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It would not be inappropriate to ask, but she should *not *ask in person.</p>
<p>Why? Because if the answer is no, it will be very awkward.</p>
<p>Instead, the request should be in writing, along with an “out” for the professor. I would phrase it like this: “If you are able to do so, I would be very grateful for a recommendation. If this is not possible, I certainly understand. In either case, I have enjoyed meeting you, thank you for your consideration, etc.”</p>
<p>The written note should state the request and then go to great lengths to make clear that her gratitude is in no way dependent upon it. It should also be phrased carefully so as not to ask for a confirmation. You will never know what the real outcome was, and that’s as it should be.</p>
<p>mantori.suzuki: That is a very good suggestion. She really respects this professor and would hate to put him in an awkward position, although I am certian she will feel more awkward than him. He has a very casual demeanor so I think that is why she thought she could say something in person. Would an e-mail to the professor work or would you go with a formal letter? Thanks for the suggestion.</p>
<p>
I like this approach, which can be done in person.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Since he has, as you say, a very casual demeanor, I would think a nicely-worded email would be fine. I wouldn’t Twitter it. :)</p>
<p>She might also consider not making it the main subject of the email, i.e., write under some other pretext, with the request appended. (“Oh, by the way, would you mind…?”) Again, this would be to avoid making such a point of it that a denial would be awkward. Of course, she would never say, “I don’t really care if you recommend me or not,” but that’s almost the tone I think she should strive for, in as respectful manner as possible. Again, the point is to make the request without making it seem as though any part of their relationship is contingent upon it.</p>
<p>I hope this doesn’t seem too contrived. I’m trying to put into words something that I would normally do but wouldn’t really analyze, so my explanation may sound a bit stilted.</p>
<p>Anyway, good luck to her!</p>
<p>D had her meeting today with the Chairman of the department she intends to major in. She never had to get around to asking him if he could provide a reference for her with admissions, he brought it up. He told her that he really wanted her at the school and that he would provide all the support she needed and would make multiple calls on her behalf. She never expected that.</p>
<p>That is terrific news. It’s nice having someone to lobby on your behalf. I hope it works out for your daughter.</p>
<p>Super! Good luck to her!</p>
<p>
You’re really saying that one out of four freshmen at a typical highly competitive school was a recruitable athlete or had some other very strong hook? (Actually more than one out of four, because presumably at least a few of the people with strong hooks also had better-than-25th-percentile SATs.)</p>
<p>That doesn’t sound right.</p>
<p>(and BobbyCT, congrats to you and your daughter!)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think hmom is dead wrong – I listed 4 different schools where my daughter was admitted despite bottom quartile scores. She certainly wasn’t an “exception” 4 times over – it wasn’t an accident, and the reach schools were targeted to fit my daughter’s strengths. Olymom’s poker analogy is much more apt – you’ve got to work with the cards in your hand. My daughter simply was able to focus on her strengths and identify the colleges where we thought those strengths would be the greatest asset. </p>
<p>I actually was right 100% the time on my daughter’s reaches. My daughter also applied to a high reach (Brown) despite my refusal to pay the application fee because I didn’t feel she had a chance – it didn’t fit the “underenrolled department” criteria; hence, as I predicted, they did not accept her. </p>
<p>There is a point at which scores really are too low, and that can be identified by looking at more detailed breakdowns of score ranges in the common data set, when available. But it’s not the 25% mark – its much lower than that. </p>
<p>I think the problem is that the same people who tend to place great weight on stats, particularly test scores, often also evaluate schools by broad factors such as reputation and ranking, rather than looking for a mutual fit. By “mutual fit” I mean a place where the kid will be happy and where the kid also offers something that the college is likely to want and will make the kid stand out among applicants.</p>
<p>To BobbyCT-- I am delighted to know that your daughter’s meeting with the dept. head went so well – and I would think that her chances of admission are excellent. Obviously she has made a good impression on someone who hopes to have her as a student – I can’t think of a more ringing endorsement.</p>
<p>The poster who suggested to you that your daughter’s scores put her at the bottom of the class academically because of weaker “credentials” is dead wrong. My daughter is a senior and her GPA puts her in the top 10% of her graduating class; she has won academic awards and special recognition along the way. Standardized test scores provide useful information to an ad com, but there is no way to know a students’ credentials without looking at the whole picture. My d. has had to work very hard at her school – those A’s certainly don’t come easy – but she has never had the sense of being less capable than her peers. </p>
<p>You haven’t said what your daughter’s intended major is, but the information that the department head has gained about your daughter’s intellect and potential from talking to her is probably much more significant to the university than a test score. They don’t want to know how good your daughter is at filling in the right bubbles on a multiple-choice exam – they want to know what she will contribute to class, how she approaches problems, how she thinks and how she expresses herself. The problem is, for most other students, they don’t have that sort of information from first hand observation – they have to rely on second-hand information from letters of recommendation, hope that their applicants didn’t get too much outside help with their essays, and look at GPA and test scores as the only objective data. </p>
<p>Assuming that your daughter is accepted to this college, when she gets there she will already have a mentor in the form of someone on the faculty who feels invested in her. So if anything that will give her a leg up over many of her classmates. </p>
<p>Anyway… don’t listen to the naysayers. There is absolutely no way that Department Chair would be willing to give your daughter his enthusiastic endorsement unless she was 100% academically qualified for that school. The last thing he wants is a student who would have to struggle to keep up.</p>
<p>I agree with Calmom regarding the 25%. To assume that the entire bottom of the class quartile on standardized testing are athletes or URMs is probably a false assumption. It also assumes that decisions are made entirely on statistics which we know is also a false assumption. To presume that 75% are better credentialed is also a false assumption since we know that success in a particular college is predicated on so much more than one (or two) sittings on a standardized test and this particular candidate has other statistics that are well above the 25th percentile. Good luck to the OP’s D!</p>
<p>The intended major can have significant impact on acceptance. Every major needs to attract a certain number if freshman to remain viable. So if OP’s major is very specific and is under applied, the Dept Head may have great sway with admissions.</p>
<p>
It’s also a stereotyped assumption, based on the equating with athleticism or minority status with lack of intellect. There are plenty of URM’s & athletes coming in with higher-end SAT’s.</p>
<p>Statistics are great as one data point and even in the business world number crunchers add a dimension, but as a marketing person it is but one dimension of many in business, as in college admissions. Good points to think about when looking at fits for our kids.</p>
<p>I want to also add that so many schools have grade inflation that GPAs are a limited way to assess a student. My D’s 3.4 at a very rigorous private school put her in the, I don’t know, lower 10% of all accepted students or some such, but her schedule was rigorous and her ECs were unusual and plentiful over 4 years.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, somebody’s got to be that 25%. In fact, I hear at some elite schools, a full quarter of the kids are at the 25% or below, if you can imagine that! That’s not good enough for me - I want my kids only to go to colleges where fewer than 10% are at or below the 25% percentile (sniff, hair toss). Maybe that will become the new prestige metric …</p>