<p>^ Yes, but that was because the bene was a minor, I gather. In this instance I assume that is not the case. </p>
<p>There are other exceptions as well, of course, including if the named beneficiary was suspected of being involved in causing the death of the insured.</p>
<p>How much is going to go to an attorney in fees? Who will pay it?</p>
<p>Any life insurance or annuity policy with a named beneficiary is not part of the estate. It does not go thru probate, but is paid directly from the company to the beneficiary. Unscrupulous estate attorneys would rather you not know this.</p>
<h1>20, Care to name that insurance company?</h1>
<p>Beneficiary who is a minor will receive the funds in a trust or held with interest until dispersed.</p>
<p>This is truly a sad situation. My brother rightfully named his wife as sole beneficiary of his 200k life insurance policy long prior to her decision that “she just didn’t want to be married anymore.” The divorce was almost final before he realized that she was still listed as that policy’s beneficiary. When he remembered this, he immediately moved to switch that designation from his soon-to-be ex-wife to our parents. He was just completely alarmed by the idea that his sudden and untimely demise would enrich this woman by so much, given that she had already taken so much from him. I was so relieved when the paperwork confirmed that she could no longer make any sort of financial claim against his assets. So, of course, was my brother. It never ceases to amaze me how people let details like this dangle, long after something like divorce or a broken engagement. In your brother’s case, kelsmom, I think it was extremely foolish of your brother to name a woman to whom he was not yet legally wed as sole beneficiary to such an enormous sum. If he’s sentient on some alternative plane somewhere, I’m sure he’s probably kicking himself over the whole thing, too.</p>
<p>For those who wonder why on earth my brother would have put his fiancee on his policy as beneficiary … join the club. My family was absolutely stunned. Another brother did find a piece of paper that has a handwritten note at the top. It’s a copy of the life insurance policy with the notation: Change to (D’s name). We assume that meant change the beneficiary, but it doesn’t explicitly state that (nor can we prove that he actually wrote it). Apparently, he never did make the change. This part I understand; he was spinning out of control toward the end & he didn’t do a lot of things he should have done. But putting the fiancee on in the first place was nothing short of stupid. My brother wanted nothing more in life than to make sure his daughter had what she needed in life. He wasn’t well off, but he helped her as much as he could. His job took him quite far from her after she got into college, but he was very active in her life. Which goes to show you … you can be a great parent but if you don’t face the reality of what would happen if you die, you are letting your child down in a huge way.</p>
<p>We have decided to begin by appealing to the fiancee’s sense of fairness. She did tell one of my brothers that she wants to “do the right thing” in all of this. We are going to ask her to put her money where her mouth is - we will ask her to sign a release to give the funds over to my niece when they pay out. If that doesn’t work, we have been given some excellent ideas on how to proceed (thanks, all). We do have some time, because the funds will not pay out without the death certificate. The coroner requested a toxicology report, so it’s going to be several more weeks before the d/c is ready.</p>
<p>My family has been working with the employer’s human resources company to make sure there were no changes that didn’t get sent to the insurance company. We have also contacted the insurance company to ask them to check their own records - since the payer is actually contracted by the insurance company - just want to be sure they do have the most recent info. What if my brother DID change the beneficiary, as his note indicates he intended to do (or at least, we interpret it that way). We got into his computer, but we haven’t been able to figure out the insurance website password (it should arrive in the mail at his home address in the next week or so, though).</p>
<p>Thanks, all, for your wonderful ideas. And make sure your policies all have the right people named!!!</p>
<p>My dad died leaving my mom (his adored wife) w/ a minor child. His policy from work named another relative as the beneficiary. What had he been thinking? The beneficiary did the right thing and signed over the proceeds.</p>
<p>Sometimes when the children are not named it is directed at not allowing the ex spouse to have access to those funds; a mistaken use of the anger and frustration at the break up of a relationship.</p>
<p>Let us know how this turns out!</p>
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<p>Must be careful here…if you get too pushy, then she could balk. If I told someone that I wanted to do the right thing and suddenly I’m getting pressure from a crowd to sign some legal document, I would start to back away.</p>
<p>Also, if you are going to get her to sign a legal document like the release you are talking about, she should have her own attorney advising her. If she doesn’t have one, she should hire one. Your family doesn’t want to be accused of anything fraudulent or deceitful or coercive by her in the future.</p>
<p>I would be much more likely to wait for her to sign over the proceeds when the time comes. Yes, you’re trusting her to follow through with what she thinks is right. And she could change her mind at the last moment. But she is well within her right to change her mind and keep the money–but may karma catch up to her and all her hair fall out if she should do so!</p>
<p>^^I agree with ellemenope that there’s a certain psychological delicacy here in dealing with the ex-fiance. There must have been a time when their understanding was different. If the brother was kind of high-maintenance in his lifetime, she might have taken good care of him for a while, or they believed their relationship would be longterm. Some men offer the promise of inheritance as a way to keep a helpmate around when they know they are very difficult people. </p>
<p>Sadly, their understandings about their future changed. She still might be the good person who was trying to make a go of it with a difficult man. </p>
<p>She might have “dumped” him because he was difficult. If you appeal to her sense of fairness, thank her for her care of him in those days, and ask her to evaluate what was the $ value of the years she gave him. I doubt she’d say the value is l00 percent of that policy, unless she’s very cruel. She doesn’t sound like that from other aspects of your post. She might be glad to be free of him. She might well recognize in a moral way that since their relationship didn’t last forever, she could in good conscience take “some” but not all of that money – to compensate herself if their years, or breakup, were difficult.</p>
<p>But any fairminded person would also realize she’s not with him any more, and that essentially a young girl was ripped off by his stupidity by not rearranging his documents before he died, through no fault of the young girl. (Sorry I know it’s your brother). As Ellemenope and others suggest, this is no time to get her back up or have her feel totally disrespected by his family, if she has all the power in her hands now.</p>
<p>I think this is a time to appeal to her nobler attitudes. She’s already said she wants to do the right thing. Now help her do that; don’t alienate her by saying she deserves “none” of it. Ask her to identify what portion of it she thinks was worth the years she gave over to him. That could be the basis of a settlement.</p>
<p>^^I agree with p3t that treating the fiancee with respect and acknowledging her efforts is important. And if she feels that she should be compensated for some of the nonsense she had to put up with, or has some pressing needs that could be assuaged by some of the money, then I would smile and thank her for whatever money she does pass along.</p>
<p>Good points all. Survey the situation on the ground and act accordingly.</p>
<p>If the fiancee is communicating with the family, seems reasonable, etc I would definately try to work it all out. At the same time, I would consult with an attorney. While life insurance is generally outside probate, the circumstances are unusual and a little information at the beginning could save a lot of heartache later on. No need to communicate your attorney consultation with the fiancee, just gather information.
My thoughts are with you and your family as you work through this difficult time.</p>
<p>Don’t forget to consider the 21 y/o daughter’s input.
Does she have fond feelings toward the ex-fiance? Was this person someone who had influence on some portion of her young life? Was that influence positive or negative?</p>
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<p>The life insurance policy was through the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union (the local is in California.) I submitted the death certificate promptly, but the union understandably did not want to release the funds unless I set up a trust, and doing so was not feasible in the U.S. territory in which we live. Four years later my son was 18 and requested the funds with interest, and received a check for the policy amount and a letter stating that interest is never paid on such funds.</p>
<p>Just so everyone is clear, the suggestion of a “probate attorney” was based on a situation: </p>
<p>a) where the fiancee is NOT amenable to “discussion” and
b) action might be contemplated to “challenge” the fiancee’s right to the funds.</p>
<p>(In the event there is no secondary beneficiary designation and IMO even if there is) any such right of action would belong to the Estate of Bro. To be prosecuted, a representative of that Estate may/will be required to be appointed. That is a probate function in probate court, hence the need for a creative “probate attorney”.</p>
<p>Disclaimer : Practicing law is hard enough IRL with full access to the facts. I don’t do it on the internet and I’m not doing it now. ;)</p>
<p>I have had a much more detailed conversation with the OP back-channel and consider myself even at this point woefully under-prepared to advocate for any specific “tactics” or course of action. Hence my “advice”
and
IRL I’d still be considering myself in the early investigative phase of representation …but I’d already know one thing. I know I wouldn’t be suggesting that this family punt.</p>
<p>Off-Topic
<sniff>“Snake” and “Mad Dog” (two of my most memorable :eek: law school professors) would be sooo proud of you.</sniff></p>
<p>Here’s hoping the ex-fiance will follow through on doing the right thing. I think the odds are probably better if you do not try aggressively to convince her to give up the entire amount, though. A modest windfall in exchange for doing right by the daughter seems reasonable.</p>
<p>This is certainly a cautionary tale to think carefully about those beneficiary decisions, and review them regularly.</p>
<p>I have been thinking about how it would feel to have $150K be dropped into your lap. Much as one would think in the abstract that one would have no trouble doing “the right thing,” would you be able to do so in actuality without some hard second thinking (especially if you really could use the money)?</p>
<p>For example, if you think that the ex-fiancee may deserve a modest windfall for the time she spent with the difficult brother, if the fiancee were to sign over all of the proceeds, and said, “Give back to me what you think is right,” would the daughter have difficulty giving over any money?</p>
<p>ellen- I had similar thoughts. What if the brother owed the fiance money or from his actions cost her some type of expense. I could see her saying “time to make me whole” financially and taking some reimbursement.</p>