Need-Blind and "Low-income" Plus Factor

Applying to College
1

If a college claims to be “need-blind”, then how and when [during the admissions process] does it determine which students qualify for the “low-income” plus factor?

Colleges recognize their “heavy donor” plus factor applicants by definition, but offer no posted guidelines for low-income applicants to qualify them for “low-income” plus factor.

In the absence of a clear indication of how and when the “low-income” plus factor is applied, what would prevent a college from excluding an indisputably low-income applicant from this plus factor pool, claiming wrong time or wrong means of communicating the low-income circumstance?

When communicating low-income circumstances, either in applying for the related plus factor or in showing extracurricular activities (township summer camp vs. pricy science camps hosted by colleges; volunteering locally vs. at NASA, a more distinct place of a distant location involving travel and living expenses; skilled level of sport or instrument performance is not an option without private lessons and trip costs), what would prevent a college from using this information to identify such applicants as undesirable?

How can a college claim to be “need-blind” if it requires applicants who plan to apply for
financial aid to distinguish themselves by entering SSN in CommonApp and Universal?

2

There are many aspects of the application which can suggest the applicant’s family SES range and other advantage/disadvantage attributes, even though they may not be enough to calculate financial aid by the college’s methodology. For example:

  • Residence address.
  • Types of extracurriculars (e.g. working to help support family versus "preppy" sport with expensive travel club team).
  • Essay content.
  • Recommendation content.
3

Can you clarify what you mean by the “low income” plus factor? Do you mean an admissions advantage due to being low income?

Need blind means that they will not REJECT anyone solely on the basis of needing financial aid, or favor full-pay over non-full-pay. Need-blind does not preclude the possibility of asking the FA office to identify Pell-grant-eligible applicants for the purpose of INCLUDING them to form a diverse class.

Also, if the school participates in Questbridge, that’s another way it identifies low-income applicants.

4

You bring up an excellent point that used to be discussed a lot in this forum some years ago. No college is truly need blind.

AOs know a lot about the student from the info on the application. They know the address and that often is a marker for Socio Economic Status. They know parents’ occupation and education level. They know the high school. They also are familiar with the costs of activities on the EC list. They also often know if student has applied for financial aid

The GC LOR is supposed to cover things like the student being on scholarship for many programs, or working after school cutting into school life. These are favorable remarks for the student. AOs at selective colleges know what activities are “bought” for a student and what are not, and the AO abc the student are supposed to Also let the school know because this is something that is favorable in the admissions decision for the student.

Unfortunately, that is often not the case. Overworked GC who writes generic LORs, applicants who want to look as important as possible and don’t get that things like working after school , being on scholarship for programs are pluses for them. They are not aware that at the highly selective schools it can be a hook.

The problem is that this info can be construed in different ways. Colleges that are need aware in admissions have policies in place so that it penalizes Admissions office , can cost AOs their jobs if they accept students that cannot pay enough to stay within school budget. Those are the need aware schools where that need has to be a factor in putting together a class because the financial aid numbers have to work and will not if everyone is admitted in need blind basis.

Then there are the schools, most schools in fact, that do not care because they don’t meet full need for most of their students. They admit enough students that it works out. They have enough leeway.

Then there are the schools that meet full need for all students and the admissions office has three luxury of not taking need into consideration at all. At such schools, having high need can be a plus factor abc should be brought up in the application. Yes, it makes a difference that you are in the sailing team by virtue of excellence because you work part time for the marina and the coach gives you a pass on the cost and you scavenge for your supplies. That you get those rare scholarships for summer programs, get the left over slots . You get to participate after all the paying customers are accounted for, and they give out freebies. That should be an integral part of your application

I’ve been told that at some schools, large ones even , like the UC system that such challenges are actually given numeric scores to up chances of admissions m, sometimes drastically.

So this is info that should be given to the AO, that may not be presented in the best way when the high school GC is unaware and the student doesn’t want to highlight this.

It dies go against the need blind claim of the colleges because it does telegraph need, but it does so in a way where need is a positive part of the application. Just as big time development applicants get a boost for being that non need. In those, situations, IMO, no school is truly need blind

5

I disagree with @cptofthehouse . MANY schools are need blind; probably most public Us for one. They will accept people and the cost is the cost.

Why do you think there is a “low income plus factor”? That is certainly not listed in the Common Data Set as a factor of interest. Certainly there are some colleges that have specific low income outreach but those I know of are related to location (like inner city). And GCs can put in their LOR what challenges students have risen above for their achievements.

6

It comes down to definition of need blind. I agree that most all colleges are need blind in that their admissions policies do not look at whether an applicant can pay the costs whiteout financial aid. I absolutely believe that

But favoring development applicants, giving those who have had severe financial challenges in life, giving leeway for high cost activities are all ways that the process does recognize financial status and need, or the lack of it

7

Most colleges are need blind for admission when evaluating individual applicants in a strict sense regarding the financial aid application.

But since almost every aspect of an applicant’s application characteristics has correlation to SES, it can be rather hard to be truly SES blind if there is any selection at all (as opposed to open admission).

But also, colleges are typically need aware for the entire class when doing budgetary planning. This may cause a college to adjust the weighting of various SES correlated admission characteristics to meet a target financial aid level for the entire class, while maintaining a need blind policy for individual applicants.

8

As I’ve often said, i do believe that most colleges, like nearly all of them are need blind in admissions, in general. Most colleges are not all that selective anyways. They have certain set criteria, and you are accepted if you meet them until they are full. Simple as that.

But I think that most of the discussion about need blind admissions arises about the relatively few selective , really highly selective schools where the app is scrutinized more carefully. A lot of holistic factors valued by such schools do involve SES and money is very much plays a role here.

Many AOs have outright said that they view candidates within the context of their opportunities and background. SES plays a role in this.

9

There are some programs (HEOP/EOP/SEEK/College Discovery), for students who are academically/financially disadvantage, but student must indicate that they are applying to this program on the application. other than the use of a fee waiver I have never heard of the low income plus factor.

Are students evaluated in context of what their school offers? yes. This is where the profile comes into place. Your school profile with give the demographics of your school; graduation rate; percentage of students attending 2/4 year college. 5 of title I students, % of students with disabilities etc. If youare from a school which is 80% title I there is a good chance that the AO reading your application is going to be able to figure out that the odds are that you are a low income student.

10

The schools that are need-blind but don’t meet full need are meaningless for low income students. Unfortunately, there’re only a few dozen schools that are both need-blind and claim to meet full need. They’re all highly selective, and almost all private (only 2 publics meet the criteria). Some of these schools flag PELL-eligible applicants in their efforts to increase the proportion of these students, even though they’re technically need-blind. Using PELL-eligibility as a flag is relatively straightforward and has the added benefit of improving their USNWR rankings.

11

Amherst and Harvard added low SES as a “tip” in 2004.

https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/anthony-marx%E2%80%99s-legacy-at-amherst/27585

https://www.amherst.edu/amherst-story/magazine/issues/2004_summer/venture

Maybe they are alone, though still?

from: https://www.chronicle.com/article/How-Much-Do-You-Pay-for/137043/

12

Op is taking about the process no longer being need blind, where Harvard and Amherst are looking to widening socioeconomic diversity by casting a wider net through recruiting, Visitation and financial aid initiatives so that more low income students apply.

I don’t believe that Amherst and Harvard are specifically looking at an applicant and saying, this Looks like a good prospect, let’s see how much the family makes.

13

Heavy donors are already known by colleges.
Child of an alumnus or employee become known by colleges via the application form field.
Athletes are identified by the coaches.
These plus factor categories are upfront and clear.

“Detecting” low income from address, EC activities, and the contents of essays is misleading and may point more to saving habits: a fancy address may be that of the grandparents; pricy
activity could be just a favor from a neighbor vs. a wealthy unmotivated kid with lackluster activities; essays may not be on a subject revealing financial might or the applicant may be ashamed to reveal poverty.

Instead of AOs routinely playing a guessing game, looking for signs of low-income, it would be more dignified and comprehensive to have an applicant check an optional box (similar to “ethnicity” and “alumni”) to indicate low income - a verifiable self-reporting. Not every family eligible for low-income plus factor knows to look for, wants to be labeled by, or goes through services like QuestBridge.

Moreover, there is no way to identify who are at the neediest of the need spectrum: a family in loans for cars, horses, and boats may have the same disposable income as a welfare family owning nothing - the neediest one can get. Most of the applications having “signs” of low income are likely to be weighted the same, allowing AOs to recommend an applicant whose essay seemed more entertaining (https://nypost.com/2016/02/07/former-yale-admissions-officer-reveals-secrets-of-who-gets-in/ “Brilliance and stunts”) or wretched enough, while dismissing another applicant of the lowest income with a conventional essay.

Not scaling “low income” allows colleges to exclude the neediest. Dartmouth, for example, pays full tuition for anyone below 100K; so why stock up on the most plus factor-worthy applicants if you can bring in kids from 90K households as they are expected to be better-mannered, articulate, have finer prospects, and would blend well with the “not needy” top.

Please see Yale’s own article here: https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2019/02/12/students-split-on-admissions-plus-factors/

14

The problem with colleges trying to asses the low/high income from other factors is that - they are prone to be subjective and can be erroneous: some of summer research programs are pricey but some are free. Are applicants advised to highlight if a program is free vs fee-based ?

15

The most disadvantaged are the least likely to even know about such summer programs, and their most likely summer activity is probably working for pay to help support family (or looking for work since some may live in economically depressed areas where jobs are scarce).

16

@Letteris @hs2020dad

I’d also like to know how colleges actually determine the “low income” status of a student, for sure, at schools with a wall between FA office and admissions. There are some markers that are pretty clear - fee waiver for apps/tests for instance.

Making the GC aware (if not already aware because of reduced lunch or fee waivers processed by GC) certainly can help so s/he includes that info in rec letter. Of course not all schools have GCs able to write comprehensive recs that would include that info, that may be another benefit for lower income kids in wealthier schools, whether by scholarship or magnet status or geography.

17

Some colleges do not. Some find it in GC’s LOR. Some find it in additional factors, some find it in the highschool attended. Some assume things from First generation. Some colleges look for it.

That is why all GCs should bring up Questbridge and such programs to their students making it clear that those who may qualify should apply through such programs because it does create a “hook”. Even though becoming a Finalist, let alone being one of those full rides, has very small chances, going though that portal and others like it, identified the student as being challenged by low family income.

That too many GCs don’t, is their failing. Ironically, my kids’ private high schools were very aware of these programs for those kids who were in those high schools as a result of generous scholarships and outreach programs , but were not communicating the info to ALL students. Our fine public school didn’t even bother. On this board you’ll read many kids from low EFC households oblivious of these programs. These same GCs may not be bringing up SES in LOR either. Sometimes privacy constraints are involved. But the subject of how having financial hardship might be a hook in admissions to highly selective colleges should be brought To everyone so they can ask to have the info brought up to the college AO via LOR.

18

I read somewhere that at Princeton PELL-eligible applicants are flagged by its FA office in the admission process even though it’s technically need-blind. I assume other need-blind schools could do the same. Asking GCs to flag low income status is highly problematic. Most GCs at public high schools, where nearly all low income students attend, either have no idea of students’ SES or too busy to pay attention to the issue for every student.

19

I agree GCs should not be flagging students as low income without express request of student. The GC often does not know and it is invasive. This is why schools keep an arms length away from financial aid issues.

However, GCs CAN let everyone know about programs like QB, can give general fin aid issues, and offer to corroborate information if the student feels that s/he has had challenges that might give cast the application into a more favorable light.

It’s not all schools, in fact hardly Any schools, where this is relevant, but for some students, it’s a major hook.

I knew a young girl who was going to a private school on scholarship who had a difficult back history. The GC was told quite a bit of the background by child and parent. The LOR was tailored for this info

I agree that most GCs do not have time for this sort of stuff. They can only send out general missives, remind Students to include any info they want included in LOR, give examples of some relevant issues, list programs that might be beneficial, financial aid reminders.

However, I’ve seen kids at schools where there there are college counselors assigned for the process and they still miss some major steps that should be obvious.

Yes, many highly selective schools do flag very low income student which does invalidate need blind admissions.

20

This is what I was referring to, not a GC sharing financial info without the student’s consent, for the record.